Editor didn't get credit for helping

KimMarie

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Just wanted everyone to know that author: southernsheila

asked my help in writing a story and then published it with my additions without acknowledging my help or even telling me she submitted it. I suggest that if she contacts you that you be aware she is likely to take your suggestions and use them as if they are her own.
 
Just wanted everyone to know that author: southernsheila

asked my help in writing a story and then published it with my additions without acknowledging my help or even telling me she submitted it. I suggest that if she contacts you that you be aware she is likely to take your suggestions and use them as if they are her own.

There is a difference between editing a story and helping to write one. Which is it?
 
What difference does it make

"Which is it?" What difference does that make? The issue is the same regardless of editing vs. helping. It shows a lack of respect and common courtesy. In fact southernsheila used my exact wording of whole sentences throughout the story. Plus I sent a lot of time discussing plot issues and improvements. It's only gracious and ethical that an author give thanks and credit to their editor no matter what part they played.
 
"Which is it?" What difference does that make? The issue is the same regardless of editing vs. helping. It shows a lack of respect and common courtesy. In fact southernsheila used my exact wording of whole sentences throughout the story. Plus I sent a lot of time discussing plot issues and improvements. It's only gracious and ethical that an author give thanks and credit to their editor no matter what part they played.

There is a vast difference between 'editing' a story and 'helping' to write one.

A good editor makes suggestions to improve the story. Punctuation, grammar, flow, etc. are all part of what's checked. It's still up to the author whether to use them or not, because it is their work.

Helping to write a story means you worked together on it, each doing part.

Before beginning to work with anyone, details are often worked out. Included in that would be if the 'editor' wants their name listed for credit or not. The same goes if it was a collaboration.

Most people edit to help someone, not just to have their name listed anyway.
 
Just wanted everyone to know that author: southernsheila

asked my help in writing a story and then published it with my additions without acknowledging my help or even telling me she submitted it. I suggest that if she contacts you that you be aware she is likely to take your suggestions and use them as if they are her own.

Did you have an agreement that you would acknowledged in the finished product?

If not, you have no right to expect anything and this thread reflects poorly on you.
 
I don't agree.

I have helped several authors and they were all gracious enough to give acknowledgement in their preface. The guidelines for an author using a Volunteer Editor it states that it's recommended and expected that they do this. I don't expect a gushing of praise, but some reasonable mention is not only courteous, but expected by most people.
Collaborating on story, suggesting changes, grammar corrections, writing parts of it, are all within the scope of recognizing the help of someone. How would you like it if you spent hours working with the person, then they publish the story (incuding your parts), neglect to tell you they did it, and then suddenly stop communicating? I would say this person deserves the criticism.
 
I have helped several authors and they were all gracious enough to give acknowledgement in their preface. The guidelines for an author using a Volunteer Editor it states that it's recommended and expected that they do this. I don't expect a gushing of praise, but some reasonable mention is not only courteous, but expected by most people.
Collaborating on story, suggesting changes, grammar corrections, writing parts of it, are all within the scope of recognizing the help of someone. How would you like it if you spent hours working with the person, then they publish the story (incuding your parts), neglect to tell you they did it, and then suddenly stop communicating? I would say this person deserves the criticism.

So you edit for the praise and acknowledgment, not to help others.
 
I have helped several authors and they were all gracious enough to give acknowledgement in their preface. The guidelines for an author using a Volunteer Editor it states that it's recommended and expected that they do this. I don't expect a gushing of praise, but some reasonable mention is not only courteous, but expected by most people.

This is what the FAQ for the Volunteer Editor program states:

"It is always nice to give credit to the editor at the beginning of the story if you're pleased with their work. A simple "Thanks to Editors Name for editing assistance with this story" at the beginning or end of the story works well."

from

http://www.literotica.com/storyxs/voled_author.shtml

And from the actual submission form itself: (at the end, under the Notes field, before the preview button)

"If you used the volunteer editing program, you should include the name of your editor in this box."

Where does it state an author MUST mention who his/her editor is? I edit several people who've never given me credit, nor have they informed me when their story appears, and I'm usually over it about a second after I've noticed their story has posted.

Collaborating on story, suggesting changes, grammar corrections, writing parts of it, are all within the scope of recognizing the help of someone. How would you like it if you spent hours working with the person, then they publish the story (incuding your parts), neglect to tell you they did it, and then suddenly stop communicating? I would say this person deserves the criticism.

I don't expect every story I read to credit the editor, nor do I expect every author here to use an editor. (although, with some, the latter would be nice. :))

Collaborating on a story is much different than editing, as is writing parts of it. As an editor myself, I do suggest re-wording quite often, but don't get the least bit offended if an author doesn't give me credit for the re-wording. After all, the story is still his/hers, and I didn't help write it. I merely gave suggestions on how to make the story flow better.

I also don't expect the author to accept every single one of my re-wording changes. That's fine, too. If he/she likes the way it was written before my changes, that's their perrogative.

Spelling and grammar (and punctuation) are different issues with me altogether as many readers do criticize writers for not using proper spelling or grammar (not always so much punctuation, unless the author has a really long run-on sentence). I expect them to use those changes without question.

But again, if they don't there is nothing I can do to force them to use ANY of my changes or suggestions. And I can't force them to give me credit for editing, even though there are some I've spent hours editing. It's a common courtesy, nothing more.

Sorry, but I gotta agree with MistressLynn, it sounds like you're wanting praise and acknowledgement.
 
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That's not what I said

What I said was the editor guidelines recommended that an author acknowledge help when they receive it. I got into the editor program to help people and I'm good at it. I have helped several authors and they thanked me for it, but I don't 'need' the acknowledgment as you seem to assume. However this particular person not only didn't tell me she published the story, but in fact used my contributions as if her own. Most reasonable people would have issues with that.
 
What I said was the editor guidelines recommended that an author acknowledge help when they receive it. I got into the editor program to help people and I'm good at it. I have helped several authors and they thanked me for it, but I don't 'need' the acknowledgment as you seem to assume. However this particular person not only didn't tell me she published the story, but in fact used my contributions as if her own. Most reasonable people would have issues with that.

Does it not follow that if you edit a piece, the author will make corrections and submit it next? Why else would they bother having anything done with it?
 
Although there may be such here, there is no requirement in the world of editing for the author to publicly acknowledge his/her editor. That's rather rare. If there's an acknowledgment section in book-length works, copy editors are sometimes mentioned in that--but not even half the time. When I see it on a story here, I think that's a sign of amateur work. I think a better place to thank your editor would be in your site profile. (And a good many times I see an editor thanked on a specific story, the story is in such poor condition that I cringe for the editor for being fingered for sloppy work.)

I didn't see a response to Starrker's question of what your prior arrangement was with the author. If there was none, I don't think you have a beef--and, as an author, I'd look for a trained editor the next time.

As Mistress Lynn noted, by the way, work on an author's story doesn't make that story in any way the editor's. That's just the way the world works. At some point, of course, so much is changed/corrected that it does become a collaboration and then the editor isn't an editor anymore--but a coauthor.
 
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Letting the editor know

The whole point of my thread is lack of courtesy from an author, not that they MUST do something or that you should have some pre-arrangement for acknowledgments. It's crass to ask that upfront and I wouldn't do it. No-one 'has' to do anything of course. The author should submit it when done, but the point is, as also recommended in the FAQ or submission area somewhere, that it would be nice to let the editor know when the piece is published. I actually like to read their stories as it appears in Lit.

I can see that this thread is going nowhere. It went from letting other editors know about a ungracious author to unreasonable criticizm of me, which I find ridiculous. I will keep my standards of behaviour that I expect of other people and you can keep yours.
 
What I said was the editor guidelines recommended that an author acknowledge help when they receive it. I got into the editor program to help people and I'm good at it. I have helped several authors and they thanked me for it, but I don't 'need' the acknowledgment as you seem to assume. However this particular person not only didn't tell me she published the story, but in fact used my contributions as if her own. Most reasonable people would have issues with that.

Recommended, but not required. I don't dispute your skills at editing, but I'm still wondering why this is such an issue for you. It's a VOLUNTEER program, therefore, you receive no monetary gain from editing stories here. I could understand if this was a paid gig, but it's not.

I've edited a lot of people over the past couple years of being a volunteer editor, some have thanked me, some haven't. Some have let me know when their story posts, some haven't. I don't lose any sleep over the ones that don't. I pull up my big girl panties and move on.

As far as using your "contributions" as their own, that's what an author does. He/she uses the suggestions (not contributions, again, there is a difference) an editor puts forth.

If you want credit as a collaborative author, that's another matter entirely, but an editor IS NOT a collaborative author. I could only imagine the response I'd get if I demanded every single author whom I've edited to give me credit for a collaborative effort simply because I suggested some re-wording....they'd laugh in my face.

But frankly, if you're making so many suggestions to the point of re-writing the story, I'd simply tell him/her to go over the story again. After all, you aren't getting paid to spend hours and hours correcting their work. As a volunteer editor, you have that right to decline editing anyone.
 
The whole point of my thread is lack of courtesy from an author, not that they MUST do something or that you should have some pre-arrangement for acknowledgments. It's crass to ask that upfront and I wouldn't do it. No-one 'has' to do anything of course. The author should submit it when done, but the point is, as also recommended in the FAQ or submission area somewhere, that it would be nice to let the editor know when the piece is published. I actually like to read their stories as it appears in Lit.

I can see that this thread is going nowhere. It went from letting other editors know about a ungracious author to unreasonable criticizm of me, which I find ridiculous. I will keep my standards of behaviour that I expect of other people and you can keep yours.

You can't just check for it every so often? Or ask them if it's submitted? :confused:
 
It went from letting other editors know about a ungracious author to unreasonable criticizm of me, which I find ridiculous. I will keep my standards of behaviour that I expect of other people and you can keep yours.

And how is your posting about this person going to make any difference to us? I'd bet there are many, many authors here who do not give credit to their editors. For all of us to post the names of those authors is ludicrous.

The criticism isn't unreasonable, and I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm merely curious as to why this is such an issue for you.
 
What I said was the editor guidelines recommended that an author acknowledge help when they receive it ...

Yet in the final list of DO and DON'T (sticky above) it says:
13. When submitting your story DO consider acknowledging your editor(s). Please check first whether the VE requests or refuses acknowledgement.
Some of us really do ask not to be acknowledged.

And how is your posting about this person going to make any difference to us? I'd bet there are many, many authors here who do not give credit to their editors. For all of us to post the names of those authors is ludicrous.
Yes - wondered that also.
 
I've only thanked an editor once or twice in my stories, I have of course thanked them in other ways, snoopy for example i've said thanks in PM or email, I think I don't remember at this point. I know I have said it before, but ah heck thanks snoopy. ;)

At first it was because I didn't think about it, well rather still is actually, so just to be a devils advocate, perhaps, the author your taking such an outraged stance over did not think to thank you in the story when she posted it. Slipped her mind or something, and is not answering email simply because their computer died, they went on vacation, went on a work trip, working overtime to pay for something, perhaps as a valentines present is on a cruise, perhaps is on a cruise because they go to a casino and the casino gave away cruise tickets to select persons.

I mean really, there's thousands of reasons for them to not be answering email and whatnot, very few have anything to do with an editor. ;)
 
Just wanted everyone to know that author: southernsheila

asked my help in writing a story and then published it with my additions without acknowledging my help or even telling me she submitted it. I suggest that if she contacts you that you be aware she is likely to take your suggestions and use them as if they are her own.
You might want to think a bit longer before going off on a rant especially in public where the rant refects on you even more than the person you are ranting about.

I have been around for a while but not actively involved in editing and it seems to me that you are asking the wrong questions! Is that possible?
If I had edited a piece and it had been up on LIt for three weeks and there was no little red square next to the catalogue entry I would be asking myself questions.
I read a lot and my preference is to read stuff that is actually good. Odd that I know but never the less it is my reading strategy.
So when I am busy with other things I tend to read the new stories a day behind and pay attention to three things.
authors and story titles that interest me. story catagories that I like and little red squares. if I cannot find anything to read based on those three things I move on.

So I ask you.
do you really want to be acknowledged as the editor with significant input into a story that the voting public have said is less than extraordinary.
personally I would be reflecting and asking myself what I could have done to make the story better.
I read the story from end to end and yes the proof reading is fine. much better than many of the stories I have read. better in that respect than the work of some fine authors here. however being technically correct is only the start and the story lacks fire and ambiiance.
Since you claim authorship of whole sentences you might want to review your position here.
Do you really want to be associated with a mediocre story?
do you really want to be associated with an author who seems to have commented on her own story
"01/31/09 by southernsheila in St. Louis, MO, USA
Loved this story. Reminds me of how me and my wife started swinging. I can't wait for the sequel!"
Do you really want to be seen here in this editors forum as being intollerant and whiney?
Have you even asked this author for an explanantion? you started your attack yesterday. apparently within hours of having found, read and commented on the story. was this the first time you read it?
If so you are being unreasonable.
a private conversation with the author allowing several days at least for a responce would bave been more reasonable would it not?

this is a first time author! did you not stop to consider that she might not know the "rules" and may not have even thought about any of this in her excitement to get her story posted.

If you publically diss authors like this what do you think the likely outcome might be? do you think other authors just might keep away from you? Or do you think that having publically embarrassed a brand new author she is going to come back and publically get down on her knees and grovel?

Philip
 
I don't expect credit as an editor; this isn't Hollywood, where everyone who carried water during the prodution gets his or her name up on the screen. If an author chooses to acknowledge my contribution, so be it.

In one case, an author completely ignored my suggestions on a story that he had already posted (and later withdrew). To be fair, it was doing pretty well, although it was still severely flawed.

In another case, an unposted story was in such poor condition that I asked the author to not credit me as editor if he decided not to use my ideas for improving the story. I truly didn't want my name associated with it.

I've never had an author with whom I worked not thank me, usually several times, via e-mail or PM. That's reward enough, for me.
 
The whole point of my thread is lack of courtesy from an author, not that they MUST do something or that you should have some pre-arrangement for acknowledgments. It's crass to ask that upfront and I wouldn't do it. No-one 'has' to do anything of course. The author should submit it when done, but the point is, as also recommended in the FAQ or submission area somewhere, that it would be nice to let the editor know when the piece is published. I actually like to read their stories as it appears in Lit.

I can see that this thread is going nowhere. It went from letting other editors know about a ungracious author to unreasonable criticizm of me, which I find ridiculous. I will keep my standards of behaviour that I expect of other people and you can keep yours.


Sorry, but the point seems to be that you don't understand the role of an editor in the process. It's not a lack of courtesy. Editors don't traditionally get recognized at all--so, it's just special when they are. Putting it on every story, though, is gross overkill, I think, and detracts from the story.

I've edited several of the authors here--only one has said anything in public. The others have just given their thanks in private, which is just fine.
 
I've edited several of the authors here--only one has said anything in public. The others have just given their thanks in private, which is just fine.

I think this is the issue - the lack of communication. If the author has the means to post the story, the author has the means to contact the editor with a note of thanks and a query as to whether or not editing credit is desired.

Good to see you SR71. Hope all's well in your world of words.
 
I think this is the issue - the lack of communication. If the author has the means to post the story, the author has the means to contact the editor with a note of thanks and a query as to whether or not editing credit is desired.

I can appreciate that, as I'm sure other editors here can. But we all know there are authors who never say thank you or even acknowledge their editor. That's the point I think we're also trying to make. It may piss us off, especially if we spent a lot of time editing someone, but if all editors were to come here and post the names of all the authors who didn't thank us, I think this forum would be nothing but..."don't edit for this one, he/she never says thanks..." type threads.

And beyond that, I think KimMarie's behavior has hurt her more than it's helped. She not only posted the author's name here, but she also posted a comment on the author's story....a not very nice comment....and I think it should've remained private between her and the author to hash out.
 
I think this is the issue - the lack of communication. If the author has the means to post the story, the author has the means to contact the editor with a note of thanks and a query as to whether or not editing credit is desired.

Good to see you SR71. Hope all's well in your world of words.

Yeah, I agree that's the basic point. Though, in the professional world I've had both authors and publishers not acknowledge an edit. I've always pin them down that they received it at least. Here, everyone has acknowledged receipt privately at least. I've never taken ownership over their work, though--even when they've accepted my edits.

Doing fine. Just returned from a overseas trip to book signings on a mainstream book--and I have a string of erotica e-books starting to launch tomorrow.
 
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