Eat Lard, Smoke Cigars, Listen to Interminable Speeches

[dr_mabeuse]

That's the Cuban secret to a long life, apparently:

HAVANA - "Fidel: 80 More Years," proclaim the good wishes still hanging on storefront and balcony banners months after Cubans celebrated their leader's 80th birthday.

Fidel Castro may be ailing, but he's a living example of something Cubans take pride in — an average life expectancy roughly similar to that of the United States.

They ascribe it to free medical care, mild climate, and a low-stress Caribbean lifestyle, which they believe make up for the hardships and shortages they suffer.

"Sometimes you have all you want to eat and sometimes you don't," said Raquel Naring, a 70-year-old retired gas station attendant. "But there aren't elderly people sleeping on the street like other places."

Cuba's average life expectancy is 77.08 years — second in Latin America after Puerto Rico and more than 11 years above the world average, according to the 2007 CIA World Fact Book.

It says Cuban life expectancy averages 74.85 years for men and 79.43 years for women, compared with 75.15 and 80.97 respectively for Americans.

Most Cubans live rent-free, and food, electricity and transportation are heavily subsidized. But the island can still be a tough place to grow old.

Homes that were luxurious before Castro's 1959 revolution are now falling apart and many cramped apartments contain three generations of family members. Food, water and medicine shortages are chronic.

But most prescription drugs and visits to the doctor are free and physicians encourage preventive care.

"There's a family doctor on almost every block," said Luis Tache, 90 and blind from glaucoma but still chatty and up on the news.

Tache lived in New York for six straight summers starting in 1945, paying $8 a month for a furnished apartment at 116th Street and Broadway. An English teacher, he retired 30 years ago.

Sitting in a rocking chair in his breezy living room in Havana's Playa district, Tache said Cuban communism "is both good and bad," while the high cost of living in capitalist societies "must be very stressful."

A relaxed lifestyle, which prizes time spent with family over careers, helps keep Cubans healthy, Tache said.

"It's bad for production, bad for the nation," he said. "But it's good for the people."

The government runs residence halls for seniors with no family to care for them, though space is severely limited. Community groups make sure older people look after one another.

"It's a very happy society. There aren't so many worries and problems and that helps," said Alida Gil, 57, leader of a community group in Old Havana known as "Circle of Grandmothers 2000."

Shortly after 8 a.m. every weekday, Gil leads two dozen elderly women through 40 minutes of calisthenics on the windowless, water-damaged ground floor of a state-owned building adorned with photos of Castro and his brother, Raul.

Raul Castro, 75, took over in July after the president underwent intestinal surgery. Officials offer increasingly upbeat reports about his progress, but his condition and ailment remain state secrets.

One of Fidel Castro's personal physicians, Dr. Eugenio Selman, in 2003 helped launch the "120 Years Club," an organization of more than 5,000 seniors — many 100 or older — from several countries including the United States. They hope to reach the 120-year mark through healthy diet, exercise and a positive outlook.

Selman has not spoken publicly since Castro fell ill, but had previously suggested the president could live to 120. Whether Castro is a member of the club is unclear.

Gerardo de la Llera, who still practices medicine at 77, is the club's vice president. He said the oldest member was a 122-year-old woman who lives in the eastern Cuban province of Granma, but he did not know her name or exact birthrate. Cuba has a history of claiming very old citizens whose ages have not been authenticated.

The government says it wants Cuba to become the world leader in life expectancy, vying with the 82-year average for Japan and Singapore.

 

[CharleyH]

I am not moving to Cuba any time soon, but their beaches and cigars make me wanna! Good post Doc ... bump/

 

[R. Richard]

I hate to be picky, but Cubans don't use lard, they use manteca. OK, its the same thing, but manteca sounds better, especially considering the frequent use of the phrase 'lard ass.'

As to the Cuban diet. In 1842 Cuba's plantation slaves got a royally decreed daily ration of:
8 ounces of meat;
4 ounces of rice;
16 ounces of starch;
4 ounces of beans.

In 1962 Castro started rationing food. The daily ration was/is:
2 ounces of meat;
3 ounces of rice;
6.5 ounces of starch;
1 ounce of beans.

The source of the Cuban daily diet comes, to large extent, from the $340 milion in food the United States sells to Cuba.

 

[mikey2much]

Richard, surely you are not going to say that the U.S. has helped Cuba

I hate to be picky, but Cubans don't use lard, they use manteca. OK, its the same thing, but manteca sounds better, especially considering the frequent use of the phrase 'lard ass.'

As to the Cuban diet. In 1842 Cuba's plantation slaves got a royally decreed daily ration of:
8 ounces of meat;
4 ounces of rice;
16 ounces of starch;
4 ounces of beans.

In 1962 Castro started rationing food. The daily ration was/is:
2 ounces of meat;
3 ounces of rice;
6.5 ounces of starch;
1 ounce of beans.

The source of the Cuban daily diet comes, to large extent, from the $340 milion in food the United States sells to Cuba.

I would think that many of the hardships that the people of Cuba have to cope with are directly related to the embargo that the U.S. has maintained since the sixties.

Imagine what they could do for their people if we would just stay out of their business.
mikey

 

[R. Richard]

I would think that many of the hardships that the people of Cuba have to cope with are directly related to the embargo that the U.S. has maintained since the sixties.

Imagine what they could do for their people if we would just stay out of their business.
mikey

Ummm, Mikey, you first cite hardships 'directly related to the embargo that the U.S. has maintained since the sixties.' Then you ask, 'Imagine what they could do for their people if we would just stay out of their business.'

First you citicize the US for staying out of Cuba's business and then you say that you want the US to stay out of Cuba's business. Make up your mind.

Cuba's economy stayed afloat during the 1960s through the 1980s because of the cold war. To spite the US, the USSR heavily subsidized Cuba. At the end of the cold war, the support of the USSR ended. In the meantime, Castro's policies have ruined Cuba's agriculture and economy. Food is rationed and many in Cuba would starve were it not for the [illegal] sending of money from Cuban expatriats to relatives in Cuba. The US does sell Cuba certain amounts of food and medici-ne. Without the US food, Cubans would starve.

But, of course, Cuba has excellent medical care. In fact, Cuban medical care is so good that Castro went to Espana for the operation that apparently saved his life. Also, Cuba exports doctors to Latin America and many of the doctors defect from the Latin American countries when they get the chance.

Finally, ordinary Cubans risked lives to try to float to the US in boats, rafts and even inner tubes. And, why not? The Cubans who have made it to Miami are doing very well. They are hard working, industrious people who will do well, given an economy that lets them do well.

By the way, the Cuban embargo was initiated by Eisenhower. However Kennedy, Reagen and Blowjob Bill all continued the embargo.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

It's of utmost urgency we drive these Cuban bastards to their knees! No telling when they might try and invade!

 

[lucky-E-leven]

This thread reminds me of the eating contest.

 

[cloudy]

It's of utmost urgency we drive these Cuban bastards to their knees! No telling when they might try and invade!

BWAH!

You made me spit out my drink.

 

[Grushenka]

A relaxed lifestyle, which prizes time spent with family over careers, helps keep Cubans healthy, Tache said.

"It's bad for production, bad for the nation," he said. "But it's good for the people."

Says it all.

 

[R. Richard]

It's of utmost urgency we drive these Cuban bastards to their knees! No telling when they might try and invade!

Ummm, Dr_M, we don't need to drive the Cubans to their knees, Castro has already done than.

Actually, there is a telling of when the Cubans tried to 'invade' the US. The newspapers still carry accounts of the desperate Cubans who use boats, rafts, even innertubes to try to 'invade' the US.

However, the Cubans did invade the islands nation of Grenada some years back. The US went in, punted the Cubans, and then gave Grenada back to its citizens. The UN tried desperately to find some respectable citizen of Grenada to make a formal complaint so that the US could be punished. The UN failed.

[I can't say if Castro is a bastard. However, rumor has it that he fucked his own mother.]

 

[Guest]

It's of utmost urgency we drive these Cuban bastards to their knees! No telling when they might try and invade!

(Those manteca asses, anyway!)

 

[R. Richard]

(Those manteca asses, anyway!)

There are not many 'manteca asses' in Cuba. Near starvation and 'manteca ass' do not go together.

 

[The_Fool]

I'm in it for the cigars. Okay, the rum helps too.

 

[R. Richard]

I'm in it for the cigars. Okay, the rum helps too.

I don't know where you live, but in New York City you can buy illegal [real] Cuban cigars from guys peddling them in the streets. The embargo is not a total success.

 

[The_Fool]

I don't know where you live, but in New York City you can buy illegal [real] Cuban cigars from guys peddling them in the streets. The embargo is not a total success.

Agreed...or from friends that vacation in the Carribean. Cuban cigars are a smoke that you have to pay attention to. If you don't, it will fuck you up.

 

[mikey2much]

Richard You never fail to live down to my expectations of you

Ummm, Dr_M, we don't need to drive the Cubans to their knees, Castro has already done than.

Actually, there is a telling of when the Cubans tried to 'invade' the US. The newspapers still carry accounts of the desperate Cubans who use boats, rafts, even innertubes to try to 'invade' the US.

However, the Cubans did invade the islands nation of Grenada some years back. The US went in, punted the Cubans, and then gave Grenada back to its citizens. The UN tried desperately to find some respectable citizen of Grenada to make a formal complaint so that the US could be punished. The UN failed.

[I can't say if Castro is a bastard. However, rumor has it that he fucked his own mother.]

We sent in the marines to kick out a group of cubans who were mostly healthcare workers. I can't believethat you are waving your proud battle flag about this.

 

[R. Richard]

We sent in the marines to kick out a group of cubans who were mostly healthcare workers. I can't believethat you are waving your proud battle flag about this.

Mikey, the following is from Wikipedia. Please note: The British government and much of Latin America reacted with rage. The US had attacked a much smaller nation, how dare they! However, the Grenadian people mark the US invasion with a holiday they call Thanksgiving Day. If you have issues with the Wikipedia information, then I suggest that you attempt to submit your 'true version' of things. Also please note: Wikipedia states that US forces encountered some 600 Cubans, most of whom were military engineers. If you have evidence that the Cubans were mostly healthcare workers, you need to contact Wikipedia. Please publish the revised information.

The Invasion of Grenada, codenamed Operation Urgent Fury, was an invasion of the island nation of Grenada by the United States of America and several other nations in response to a coup d’état by Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard. From October 25, 1983, the United States, Barbados, Jamaica and members of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States landed troops on Grenada, defeated Grenadian and Cuban resistance and overthrew Coard's government. October 25 is a national holiday of Grenada, called Thanksgiving Day, to commemorate this event.

Background
On March 13, 1979, a bloodless coup d’état, led by New Jewel Movement leader Maurice Bishop, toppled the government of Eric Gairy to establish a Marxist-Leninist government that quickly aligned itself with the Soviet Union and Cuba. Under Bishop, Grenada began a military build-up, of significant proportions for a country that had previously maintained a small army. The government also began constructing an international airport with the help of Cuba. U.S. President Ronald Reagan pointed to this airport and several other sites as evidence of the potential threat posed by Grenada towards the United States. The U.S. government accused Grenada of constructing facilities to aid a Soviet-Cuban military build-up in the Caribbean, and to assist Soviet and Cuban transports in transporting weapons to Central American insurgents. However, Bishop’s government claimed that the airport was built to accommodate commercial aircraft carrying tourists.

On October 13, 1983, a faction led by Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard seized power in turn from Bishop; Coard's forces subsequently executed Bishop in spite of mass protests in Bishop’s favor. The Governor-General of Grenada, Paul Scoon, was placed under house arrest.

The Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS) appealed to the United States, Barbados, and Jamaica for assistance. According to Mythu Sivapalan of the New York Times (October 29, 1983), this formal appeal was at the behest of the U.S. government, which had decided to take military action against Coard's regime. U.S. officials cited the coup and general political instability in a country near its own borders, as well as the presence of American medical students at St. George's University on Grenada, as reasons for military action. Sivapalan also claimed that the latter reason was cited in order to gain public support, rather than as a legitimate reason for invasion, since fewer than 600 of the 1,000 non-Grenadian civilians on the island were from the U.S.:

Both Cuba and Grenada, when they saw that American ships were heading for Grenada, sent urgent messages promising that American students were safe and urging that an invasion not occur. [...] There is no indication that the administration made a determined effort to evacuate the Americans peacefully. [...] Officials have acknowledged that there was no inclination to try to negotiate with the Grenadian authorities.

The invasion, which commenced at 05:00 on October 25, was the first major operation conducted by the U.S. military since the Vietnam War. Fighting continued for several days and the total number of American troops reached some 7,000 along with 300 troops from the OECS. The invading forces encountered about 1,500 Grenadian soldiers and about 600 Cubans, most of whom were military engineers. There is no evidence that military personnel from other communist countries were on Grenada.

Official U.S. sources state that the defenders were well-prepared, well-positioned and put up stubborn resistance, to the extent that the U.S. called in two battalions of reinforcements on the evening of October 26. However, the total naval and air superiority of the invading forces — including helicopter gunships and naval gunfire support — proved to be significant advantages.

U.S. forces suffered 19 fatalities and 116 injuries. Grenada suffered 45 military and at least 24 civilian deaths, along with 358 soldiers wounded. Cuba had 25 killed in action, with 59 wounded and 638 taken prisoner. Then, Captain John Abizaid, (future Army 4-Star General and CENTCOM Commander), commanded an Army Ranger Company that conducted an combat airborne drop into Grenada. His actions were later depicted by Clint Eastwood and Mario VanPeeples in the movie "HeartBreak Ridge".

In mid-December, after a new government was appointed by the Governor-General, the U.S. forces withdrew.

Although the U.S. military proved its post-Vietnam ability to quickly respond to a percieved threat, subsequent analysis by the U.S. Department of Defense showed a need for improved communications and coordination between the different branches of the Armed Forces. Some of these recommendations resulted in the formation of the United States Special Operations Command in 1987.

International opposition and criticism
Grenada was part of the Commonwealth of Nations and — following the invasion — it requested help from other Commonwealth members. The invasion was opposed by the United Kingdom and Canada, among others. British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher personally opposed the U.S. invasion, and her Foreign Secretary, Geoffrey Howe, announced to the House of Commons on the day before the invasion that he had no knowledge of any possible U.S. intervention. Ronald Reagan, President of the United States, assured her that an invasion was not contemplated. Reagan later said "She was very adamant and continued to insist that we cancel our landings on Grenada. I couldn't tell her that it had already begun."

After the invasion, Prime Minister Thatcher wrote to President Reagan:

This action will be seen as intervention by a Western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime. I ask you to consider this in the context of our wider East-West relations and of the fact that we will be having in the next few days to present to our Parliament and people the siting of Cruise missiles in this country...I cannot conceal that I am deeply disturbed by your latest communication.

The invasion of Grenada drew criticisms and condemnation from politicos around the world. In Mexico City, 10,000 students marched on the U.S. embassy. Hundreds more stormed the U.S. Embassy in La Paz, Bolivia. In the Dominican Republic, demonstrations broke out that were put down by gun fire. In Trinindad, the Oil Refinery Workers Union condemned the invasion. Massive protests were held in Havana, Cuba (an actual opponent of the US in the fighting) and Managua, Nicaragua (at that time controlled by a government close to Cuba and the Soviet Union). In the United States itself, the Congressional Black Caucus condemned the invasion, as did 300 AFSCME delegates representing over 115,000 municipal workers in New York City.

 

[mikey2much]

RR, I got to hand it to you

When you come to a discussion you do bring your facts. I am impressed that this time you showed all of them , not just the ones that support your view.

mho is that Regan went into invasion mode in order to take attention away from the disaster he had just suffered in the middle east. Wasn't this just after the barracks truck bombing that killed all those marines?

Cuba had been trying to take a leadership role with the small island states including the new government of Grenada and had sent in people who were in effect doing what our peace corps might do. Helping out with water projects and helping building basic infrastructure.

As this thread started out saying ,Cuba has a good health system, and it offers its help in the health area to several latin american countries.

I don't think that a action like our embargo of cuba is 'staying out of their business'. If I understand it correctly we try to get all the people that trade with us to avoid trading with Cuba. Am I wrong on that?

What would be wrong with our country just enjoying our lives and letting the other countries who want a different form of government do what they want. Do we as a country really fear that little island off our coast? I don't think so, yet we have used our power and position to cause as much trouble for them as possible.

I guess in a way we are making our claims come true about them though. We know for sure that there is a prison located there that is in violation of so many treaties that it should be torn down. The trouble is that we are the ones running it.

Maybe I am just to simple to see the darker workings of those sneaky cane growers and cigar smokers.

I did like the music in the havana social club movie. Did you?
mikey

 

[R. Richard]

When you come to a discussion you do bring your facts. I am impressed that this time you showed all of them , not just the ones that support your view.

mho is that Regan went into invasion mode in order to take attention away from the disaster he had just suffered in the middle east. Wasn't this just after the barracks truck bombing that killed all those marines?

Cuba had been trying to take a leadership role with the small island states including the new government of Grenada and had sent in people who were in effect doing what our peace corps might do. Helping out with water projects and helping building basic infrastructure.

If you mean by leadership role supporting a group of marxist hoodlums who took over the government of Grenada by assassination and intimidation, then yes Cuba was trying for a leadership role. As far as the results of the Cuban leadership role, you might reread the Grenadian Thanksgiving Day item.

As this thread started out saying ,Cuba has a good health system, and it offers its help in the health area to several latin american countries.

Cuba has a fair number of medically trained people. That is not surprising, since being a medically trained person in a communist dictatorship is a good way to keep eating. I will again point out that Castro went to Spain when he had serious health problems.

I don't think that a action like our embargo of cuba is 'staying out of their business'. If I understand it correctly we try to get all the people that trade with us to avoid trading with Cuba. Am I wrong on that?

What would be wrong with our country just enjoying our lives and letting the other countries who want a different form of government do what they want. Do we as a country really fear that little island off our coast? I don't think so, yet we have used our power and position to cause as much trouble for them as possible.

The US has embargoes trade with Cuba. The US, as a humanitarian gesture, does allow Cuba to buy food and medicine. The US would like to topple the Castro dictatorship and attempted to do so by cutting off all trade with Cuba. As with most US diplomatic efforts, this one failed.

I guess in a way we are making our claims come true about them though. We know for sure that there is a prison located there that is in violation of so many treaties that it should be torn down. The trouble is that we are the ones running it.

Every so often another claim is made about mistreatment of the prisoners at GITMO. The clains have proven to be so much crap. Yes, there was an attempt to flush a Q'ran down a toilet, but that was a prisoner doing the flushing. As to why the prisoners are at GITMO, don;t ask me. Standard procedure for the 'enemy combatants' that are interned there has been battlefield execution.

I did like the music in the havana social club movie. Did you?
mikey

I don't watch movies.