drinking and driving

[sexy-girl]

simply me exactly ... it doesnt even matter if you can walk in a straight line ... if you have ONE drink your reaction time and judgement is lowered greatly


if people drink and drive they should be put in prison in my view ... its not like having a parking ticket if they drink and drive they could kill someone ... a wife a daugther or son or a father or anyone ... imagine how christmas would be without one of your family members thats how serious it is


and people that drink and drive are saying they dont care ... so yes in my view they should be put in prison and learn that thier choices have concenquences if the way they have to learn that is to be put in jail then so bit it


and awareness is important for EVERYONE thats why these adverts are important at this time of year ... i dont even drive myself but im glad the adverts are being shown im glad im aware of those dangers i dont want them to be hid from me just because its disturbing

 

[paganangel]

hmmm....what about stupid people?

they cause a lot of accidents. where is the reaction time line? i'm pretty slow after 0 drinks. some people are just faster than others. life is an assinged risk. great tagedies make for bad plicies. i don't really like drunk drivers. but often it's a copout for stupidity. what if one were to make the same mistakes sober? what about women putting on make up or men shaving while driving? fumblng with the radio? arguing with your spouse? talking on the phone? let's make daydreaming a felony.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: sorry kids, i still can't agree...

i hate pre-emptive legislation of ANY kind. as far as swerving all over the road...that's an arrestable offense..NAIL 'EM. i just hate busting people b4 tey've harmed others.

Then by your logic, as long as I don't harm anybody I can just go outside and start shooting in any direction I wish. As long as I don't harm anybody, or break any windows, no foul right? Or I could drive down my residential street past the grammar school at 90 MPH when the school kids are leaving for home. As long as I don't harm anybody, no foul right? Or, I could try to murder someone, but make a mistake and not even scratch them, as long as I don't harm anybody, no foul right?

Or, I could get drunk and drive my car someplace, as long as I don't harm anybody, no foul right?

All four of those are examples of situations where we have pre-emptive laws that we enforce because we know sooenr or later they will result in tragedy. Over half of motor vehicle deaths are the result of someone being intoxicated. According to the National Safety Council, "about 3 in every 10 Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related traffic accident at some time in their lives." Worldwide, well over 100,000 people die every year in alcohol related motor vehicle deaths, and the accumulative result of deaths that can be attributed to alcohol use is over 2 million per year.

Sure life is risky, too risky, but when it comes to people who intentionally risk my life without my consent, then I say they need to be stopped. I want to decide when I risk my life - not someone else.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: hmmm....what about stupid people?

they cause a lot of accidents. where is the reaction time line? i'm pretty slow after 0 drinks. some people are just faster than others. life is an assinged risk. great tagedies make for bad plicies. i don't really like drunk drivers. but often it's a copout for stupidity. what if one were to make the same mistakes sober? what about women putting on make up or men shaving while driving? fumblng with the radio? arguing with your spouse? talking on the phone? let's make daydreaming a felony.

We have laws for people who have too many accidents too; they have to take driver ed over again. If they can't demonstrate a capacity to operate a vehicle safely then they get their license taken away. My grandfather had his license taken away, and when I am incapable of driving safely I want mine taken away too.

We have rights and priviledges, but when we abuse them we deserve to have them taken away. I have the right to own firearms, and I treasure that right - but if I someday go senile and start waving one of them around, I hope someone takes my guns away before I do someone harm, not after.

I agree - we are too pre-emptive with many of our laws, but there is a huge history of harm coming from driving while intoxicated, and there is no socially redeeming value to allowing it to go unchecked.

We must always be on the guard to prevent people from going too far with such laws, but in this case I do not think anyone has gone too far.

 

[freakygirl]

My brother had a little boy.. who was 2 at the time of his death. He doesn't remember his father. Thank god he has a wonderful man in his life to call dad now. About 6 months ago, my nephew lost his only brother (step brother) in an accident. His mom picked him up from daycare.. she wasn't drunk, but the driver was. He missed a corner.. drove off an embankment and Trevor (who was buckled in) flew through the back window and was rolled on and thrown around so badly, that they had to LOOK for all of his body parts. Trevors mom is in prison and so is the driver of the car.

The guy that was driving the car that killed my brother, had to not only go to prison for 5 years.. he also had to pay for my brothers funeral and restitution to my mother. Sadly, the guy that killed my brother is back in prison for the same offense. 27 years old and he is now serving life. (This was his 3rd drunk driving conviction.. 2 deaths).

So PaganAngel.. go talk to the mother.. the father.. the brothers.. the sisters.. the families.. those of us who have been affected by this bullshit. Maybe you will have a different point of view. Better yet.. hope it's never you.. or one of your children someday.

 

[Simply Me]

Freakygurl, I am very sorry for the tragedies you have had in your life. I see so much of this, and take a part of it home with me everytime. STG, well said. PG, I agree that there are many causes of wrecks, some avoidable, some not. If I'm not mistaken, some states now have a law forbidding one from talking on a cell phone and driving at the same time. I agree with this as well. People who shave, put on makeup while driving? That is just as bad, but we don't see many people come in dead from that. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but the numbers are not as staggering as those for drunk drivers. The best defense we have on the road is us. Pay attention to the people around you. If you notice someone doing something that could potentially harm others, pull over and call it in. Maybe it is just someone who made a bad decision that day, and you could prevent it from ruining the rest of their lives, or killing someone else.

I work a lot of overtime on 12 hour shifts, and then drive home almost an hour. Am I a danger? Yes. But the minute I realize that I am too tired to drive, I pull over. I had a cop pull me over last year, said that someone called into them that I was looking sleepy at the wheel. As I sat there, I realized that yes, I was very tired. I'm thankful for the person who cared enough to call it in. The policeman let me leave my car in a local parking lot and I had my daughter come and get me to take me home. Drunk drivers do not have the capability to make that decision. They think they are ok to drive. Or even, that they drive better drunk, more defensive they say. Tell that to the people who are watching you drive.

And now I am getting off my soapbox and going to get dressed.

 

[lillend]

Nothing is ever going to make me like scare tactics commercials, but I guess they might be helping someone. I do not drink so there is no way they are going to have a positive effect on me....all they do is make me sad, of course the hungry children commercials do the same to me. I do not know that scare tactic commercials work, but they might. If I was a drinker I know they would stop me, but I would not drink and drive anyways. I do not need these commercials to tell me that drinking and driving is dangerous....I already know that. Still there is a chance that someone out there would benefit from the shock, and I suppose if it keeps even one person from getting behind the wheel after drinking then it is worth my discomfort.

Just wanted to post this so everyone knows I see their point on the matter. Not liking something doesn't mean I really disagree, it just means I personally do not like it. These commercials may help others, but they do not help me. I would rather fill my thoughts with the joy of christmas than linger on thoughts of tragedies that have happened and those that are yet to come.

 

[lobito]

I'm very seriously baffled by the idea that someone who is drunk, can claim to drive better, because they are more defensive. I have had people say that to me, and everytime, I wonder if they really believe what they themselves are saying.

I have driven drunk, exactly one time. It only took that one time for me to realize that I'm not very good at driving while intoxicated. The bar I stopped at on my way home from work was less than two blocks from my house, and I didn't even, and still don't, remember driving home that night. It shouldn't even take ONE time for people to realize that it shouldn't be done, but sadly it does.

Is prison the right idea? Maybe, but maybe not too. If in prison for life, which is the ONLY sentence that should be available in death by drunk driving accidents, then that person should have enough time to think about what they've done. Perhaps they should even be forced to learn about the person whom they've killed.

When they are let free, then the chances are most certainly over 50%, that they'll do it again, (and again, and again...)

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I'm very seriously baffled by the idea that someone who is drunk, can claim to drive better, because they are more defensive. I have had people say that to me, and everytime, I wonder if they really believe what they themselves are saying.

Rationalization; they are lying to themselves to continue a behavior they know is bad, but that they do not wish to stop, even at the cost of another human's life.

Offend once, license suspended for 6 months, mandatory hefty fine, automobile held in custody for one month with the offender paying for storage, and a few nights in jail.

Offend twice, get your license revoked for 1-2 years, mandatory hefty fine and a few weeks in jail.

Offend thrice, get your license revoked 5 years to permanently, mandatory confiscation of the automobile, and 1-6 months in jail.

Offend without a license (while susepnded or revoked), license revoked permanently, mandatory confiscation of the automobile, and 1-6 months in jail.

Kill someone unintentionally while driving intoxicated, same penalties as criminally negligent homicide - usually some years in prison.

 

[freakygirl]

Offend once, license suspended for 6 months, mandatory hefty fine, automobile held in custody for one month with the offender paying for storage, and a few nights in jail.

Offend twice, get your license revoked for 1-2 years, mandatory hefty fine and a few weeks in jail.

Offend thrice, get your license revoked 5 years to permanently, mandatory confiscation of the automobile, and 1-6 months in jail.

Offend without a license (while susepnded or revoked), license revoked permanently, mandatory confiscation of the automobile, and 1-6 months in jail.

Kill someone unintentionally while driving intoxicated, same penalties as criminally negligent homicide - usually some years in prison.

Or you can do as my ex boyfriend, a friend and my father in law have done.. you take a deferred prosicution confused: spelling) and get your license back.. get sent to AA meetings.. and have that machine put on your truck, that you have to blow into every 10 minutes (which the friend found was easy to get around and continues to drink and drive). Oh yeah.. the ex boyfriend is the ONLY one of those three that actually completed the program and has been sober for 7 years. The other two.. are accidents waiting to happen..

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Just to be clear on this issue: I am an alcoholic (I haven't had a drink in about 20 years) - when I drink, I get seriously drunk, and sometimes stay drunk for days.

My ex-father-in-law is an alcoholic. I stopped serious binge drinking awhile after I graduated high school - and yes, I would beg, borrow and literally steal to buy booze. I would skip school about every other day to go on a drunk. I got kicked out of high school for coming to school drunk one too many times and my parents didn't know I really drank until that happened.

I have driven drunk. Of all of the vehicular accidents I have had (10 total IIRC, 7 car, 3 bike), none were related to drinking and driving. I was never caught driving drunk, although I did it often as a teenager.

So, I am not claiming that I am innocent here - I am claiming I know what happens on the road when someone drinks and drives: my ex-wife was hit as a pedestrian and put in the hospital by a drunk driver. A friend was killed by a drunk driver. Friends have had accidents because they were drunk (my ex-brother-in-law and other friends have wrecked more than one car driving drunk).

 

[Mellon Collie]

My brother had a little boy.. who was 2 at the time of his death.

<snip, I don't want to repeat any of that. It's hard to read>

So PaganAngel.. go talk to the mother.. the father.. the brothers.. the sisters.. the families.. those of us who have been affected by this bullshit. Maybe you will have a different point of view. Better yet.. hope it's never you.. or one of your children someday.

I know where you are coming from Freakygurl, when I was 10 my little sister's bestfriend died, they were both three at the time. A drunk driver lost control of his car and swerved not to hit a pole and got a child instead. He was dead by the time they got him to the hospital.

I personally think any person who drives drunk is scum. There shouldn't even have to be laws against driving while you are under the influence of anything, people just shouldn't do it out of respect for all the people's lives they are putting at risk while on the road. In my city there is no reason to drive while you are drunk, the city has a deal with SEPTA (the busses here), if a person was consuming any alcohol they can ride the bus, subway or el home for free. A lot of cab companies in the city also have a policy similar to this. It sickens me when I hear about accidents cause by drunk drivers, here they have no excuse.

 

[paganangel]

hey shy

all of your examples, but one, illustrate my point. to be more clear, i agree with them. on the question of attempted murder...(i saw how ya snuck that one in there) there is intent to consider. there my logic follows inversly. u tried to kill someone? i really don't care whether you succeeded or not...two in the back of the head. and that's when i'm in a GOOD mood.
so basically, barring intent, you are correct, no harm no foul.
oh and even though it would be nice, you don't have the right to decide when your life is at risk. that's not my rule. it's not the government's or god's either. it's just the way it is. no amount of legislation will change that. (nor will a false sense of security.)

 

[paganangel]

JUST SO EVERYONE IS CLEAR ON HOW I FEEL

though no one has expressed it, i sincerely hope no one feels i just don't care about the tradgedies in each of your lives. in fact, i'm typing through tears. my heart goes out to all of you. still, i feel i have to try to keep my reason free from emotion. i just believe in the ideals (and yes, i guess they are ideals) of freedom.
as far as seeing and speaking to the victim's families...i didn't mention this previously, but i've been a victim myself. not even a scratch thank goodness. but in truth, i don't want to meet them. i don't want my logic colored. those of you who have read other threads with my posts know i'm a bit heartless, but it truly is necessary. believe it or not, the world needs people like me.

keep safe.

 

[paganangel]

11 07 01

happy pearl harbor day.

new joint...please read, vote, and give feedback

to drunk and tired. people on the d & d thread are getting pissed, but i feel how i feel.
met a girl 2nite. pretty. red hair, glasses, and left handed. a goddamed triple threat. oh well, no prob. we are doin somethin tomorrow night. i'll screw it up pretty good.
too tired. g/n eli...wherever you are.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: JUST SO EVERYONE IS CLEAR ON HOW I FEEL

i don't want my logic colored. those of you who have read other threads with my posts know i'm a bit heartless, but it truly is necessary. believe it or not, the world needs people like me.

Actually I can agree with you to a point. People have called me cold and too logical too. It doesn't mean that you don't feel emotions, indeed I think people like us feel emotions deeper than most people. I know I get my feelings hurt rather easily, and over the years I have had to wall off my emotions lest they totally control me.

At the same time, I know logic is not the end all and be all of existence. Logic is needed to help us make decisions and to obtain the goals our emotions steer us towards, but without our "hearts" we would be rather pitiful creatures indeed.

That said, I do know where you are coming from because I have come from there myself; I agree that for the most part until someone actively does something to prove they have abused a right or priviledge, then they should have that right. We just draw the lines at different places.

I do not believe alcohol or drugs should be prohibited because some people abuse them, nor do I believe people who drink should have their license taken away pre-emptively, but combine the two with a drunk driver shows that this person is abusing their priviledge to drive on public roads, and a priviledge it is, not a right.

Driving intoxicated is driving impaired, and it is the cause of the majority of motor vehicle accidents and deaths. There is no right to drive, and there is no right to drive drunk. There is no socially redeeming value to allowing people to drive drunk - quite the opposite. No one's rights are infringed when we take away the drunk driver's driving priviledges.

Your argument that drunk driving should be legal is just an academic exercise in carrying your logic to a ridiculous extreme. Part of being able to properly apply logic is knowing when it doesn't apply to the situation. Knowing where, when and what the exceptions are. The world is a wide spectrum of shades of grey, and while we can't always tell exactly where the lines are, we can often tell that something is way too far over the line.

Like I said, I believe you have the correct fundamental logic, however, I draw the lines differently in that I believe once a person has shown a propensity for abusing a right or priviledge I do not need to wait for actual damage to occur - just enough evidence to go beyond a resonable doubt.

I do not doubt that if someone drinks and drives, sooner or later, if they continue, someone is going to get hurt. I do not doubt that if someone wildly shoots their firearms in any and all directions, sooner or later someone is going to get hurt. I have no doubt that if I were to continually drive through a school zone at 90 MPH when the kids are on the street, that eventually someone will get hurt or killed - indeed I would be surprised if I could pull it off even once without killing some innocent.

It is called reckless endangerment, and yes, I do have the right to say, that within reason, another person does not have the right to endanger me outside of that envelope of risk that I chose in day to day life. I have the right to expect that when I am a pedestrian, that a car will not go speeding through a crosswalk when I have the right of way. Whether they actually strike me or not, they endangered my life, and I will not allow that.

 

[sexy-girl]

i would just like to add that drinking and driving means you are showing intent to hurt someone


there has been enough education about this issue that everyone should know if you step in a car after you've been drinking there is a danger you could hurt/kill someone


that means anyone that drinks and drives is showing intent to kill someone and showing that they dont care about the risks

 

[seXieleXie]

a bit of a tangent

but still somewhat on topic...

i went to the movies last night and saw a preview for a new tom cruise flick where he's part of this police force that arrests people for crimes like murder and robbery before they commit them. just seeing the preview made me want to punch holes in the premis. i mean... they're saying a person has no control over her/his actions... they're all predetermined and there's nothing to be done. can you imagine going to jail for a crime you haven't yet, but were gauranteed to, commit?

 

[tn_8tiv]

Great thread! I also have very strong feelings about this issue...lost my brother to a drunk driver.

Unfortunately, the really drunk people don't understand that they are drunk. They believe in their fucked-up mind that they are invincible and their driving skills are not impaired. I know because when I've had a few too many that's how I feel and I'm sure glad I have friends who will insist that I don't drive. May not be happy at the time but the next morning I owe them a lot.

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: JUST SO EVERYONE IS CLEAR ON HOW I FEEL

i don't want my logic colored. those of you who have read other threads with my posts know i'm a bit heartless, but it truly is necessary. believe it or not, the world needs people like me.

You have no logic. You ARE heartless. The world needs less people like you.

My first clue to your lack of appreciation for life was the post I previously quoted in this thread:

Originally posted by paganangel
just give 'em all 72 hours to evacuate and then nuke jerusalem. problem solved.

After that, your posts here in this thread didn't surprise me a bit.

 

[ToddHwrd]

Please Don't do it

I could go on and on about this subject, I have lost two dear friends to drunk driving. All I have to say is pls give up your keys if you are going to drink..........

Todd

 

[Rambling Rose]

Victim of a drunk driver on Friday, December 13, 1969

I was four years old. My first memory is seeing the faces at the passengers side window. I couldn't wake my Grandmother up. I didn't know she was in a coma. I couldn't raise myself from the floor of the car because both of my legs were broken. I was hospitalized for over a month and in a body cast for several months afterward.

This was before seat belts were standard in automobiles. This was before MADD. The driver got off with a small fine that paid a portion of our medical bills.

Please don't drink and drive. In seconds my entire life was changed due to someone else's reckless behaviour.

 

[paganangel]

i believe driving is a right

oh, i've been told all my life it is a privilege. i don't beleive that just because a law is written or a driver's ed teacher says it, that makes it so. just like i don't believe jerusalem is holy. (i really thought you'd get the reference to soloman, by the way.)
how can the right to bare arms exist, but not the right to operate a motor vehicle?
oh, and te world needs less people like me? who's heartless now?