Don't know what to do

[wishfulthinking]

My work want to strike.

I'm still on probation. In Oz, you can fire someone on prob without giving a reason. The person in our office who is trying to get others to do it is a troublemaker, has their own motivations, and is untouchable in terms of getting fired. The instigator in the other office will likely get fired, as they are on probation too. Another office won't be asked, and the 4th only possibly half.

One of the main problems [not the major] is people saying they are being underpaid. This isn't an issue I have - in fact, I would say I'm overpaid, because I'm getting easily double what anyone with my experience would receive - and people compare what they earn to me, and that is some of the problem [not me personally, but someone with 28 years experience is getting the same as someone with 3 months].

I don't want to do it. But the pressure is high. I think I would like to go to work and do paperwork, but not see any clients, give advice or go to court on that day. (The day proposed is my heavy court day). But is this any better than actually striking?

 

[oggbashan]

My advice:

Tell your colleagues that because you are on probation you can't afford to strike because the consequences for you will be more than the strike will be for them.

If there is a union representing you, inform them in writing.

Work as normally as you can but don't force your way past picket lines.

Og

 

[Guest]

OUCH!
that is a loaded question. we went on strike when i was out on sick leave. how lucky was that? however, i wouldn't cross the picket line if i was paid triple time. i hated the thought of being called a scab and how i would eventually lose my job because of it. no way, jose!
that being said, the people who did strike had valid reasons and the agreement between the union and the hospital was very fair to both sides.
this is a hard question. i wish i knew more of your situation but really its almost like the entire thing is out of your hands. you have to go with majority on this one...yeah? i dont know office politics/rules down that way.
wishing you the best.
*hugs*
v~

 

[wishfulthinking]

Thanks guys

There is no union, but I have a confidential meeting via telephone tomorrow morningwith the overriding professional body to discuss it. They have a mentor program. I'm thinking I might speak to my old boss too.

I sort of got myself into a sticky situation - I said I wouldn't be comfortable striking without a list of reasons provided to the govt and to our bosses. They don't want anyone to know beforehand [except the media], and only to advise the govt. They now want me to write up the concerns - which will end up in the hands of the media. I don't know what all the concerns are - how silly is that And this is part of the problem - I don't think they are being smart about it, and are going about it the wrong way - striking is a last resort in my mind. The items need to be put to them to answer or not. I can't see it accomplishing much if anything in this situation.

 

[wishfulthinking]

The more I right, the more I realise I can't strike. But it isn't going to help work relations with some colleagues.

 

[oggbashan]

The more I right, the more I realise I can't strike. But it isn't going to help work relations with some colleagues.

That is one of the worst things about a strike. The employers will ride it out. The employees become divided and polarised. Working together becomes very difficult.

If no one has raised the specific problems with the employers, striking seems premature. Negotiation should be attempted and be seen to fail before a strike is called.

Og

 

[Guest]

That is one of the worst things about a strike. The employers will ride it out. The employees become divided and polarised. Working together becomes very difficult.

If no one has raised the specific problems with the employers, striking seems premature. Negotiation should be attempted and be seen to fail before a strike is called.

Og

i agree with Og. Seems like Min was right when she said "Og knows all"
very true.

 

[wishfulthinking]

i agree with Og. Seems like Min was right when she said "Og knows all"
very true.

Yep, Og gives solid advice.

But who wants to be a scab?

 

[oggbashan]

I know a lot about strikes, negotiation between unions and employers, and disputes. I ought to. It was my job for 14 years to avoid conflict.

I think that wishfulthinking is being set up to be the scapegoat by colleagues who don't have her interests at heart.

Being a 'scab' is emotive. It is blackmail, even if you are only thinking it yourself. As a probationer you should NOT be in the front line. You should perhaps be supportive of your colleagues' concerns but not asked to be a leader. That is unfair.

A diplomatic 'sickie' might be a way out but the management and your colleagues wouldn't necessarily accept that.

Consult your professional body and your old boss but if you can stay away from the front line. Whatever happens you can be seriously hurt if you are seen as a ringleader.

Og

 

[wishfulthinking]

I think that wishfulthinking is being set up to be the scapegoat by colleagues who don't have her interests at heart.

I think this is what it comes down to - while their concerns are valid, the motivations are not pure. And I want to avoid that sort of political shit.

PS what did you do for 14 years [if it isn't rude of me to ask]

 

[oggbashan]

I think this is what it comes down to - while their concerns are valid, the motivations are not pure. And I want to avoid that sort of political shit.

PS what did you do for 14 years [if it isn't rude of me to ask]

I was the management's negotiator with 5 unions and 12 branches in three cities in the UK. A long time before that I was a union representative for 500 people.

I failed in my job if there was a strike. I also failed if the staff had a genuine grievance that wasn't addressed. Deciding what was, and what was not a 'genuine' grievance was the difficult part. Sometimes a union would be flying a kite, trying it on, and knowing that the management couldn't agree. Sometimes an apparently minor issue might have major consequences.

Og

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Yep, Og gives solid advice.

But who wants to be a scab?

If you work there already, you aren't a scab. A scab is someone hired to break a strike.

When I worked for the Phone co. the union decided on a work slow down. Like you, I was still a conditional hire, which meant I could be fired for taking part. I just went about my workday and did what I was supposed to.

I won't say it's always the case, but when I was confronted by union militants, the shop steward took my side. Basically, the union couldn't protect me if I started missing my jobs per day quota. Since they couldn't protect me, the steard told me to get my jobs done and ntot worry about the pressure. And it slacked off considerably afterwards.

There is a bottom line here, and one you must be cognizant of. It's your job. It's your livelyhood. And if you get fired, neither the agitator nor any of the others is going to help you find a new job. Ethically, your co workers cannot ask you to sacrifice your job for their betterment. If they do, I would say screw them.

Like Ogs said, inform them you can't. INf orm the union if there s one.

My only other suggestion would be rather than informing the union by mail you won't. Inquire of them to see if you would be protected. In general, if they can't protect you, they will exercise some latitude in dealing with your situation.

From my own point of view, no matter what, I would cross the pickett lines if my livelyhood was being risked while those picketting were risking nothing. I've crossed before, when I worked for the state. I got a lot of crap for a while, but I kept my job and took care of myself. I did arm myself with aleter from the union rep to the effect that since I was seasonal they could not do anything for me if I were fired. The vast majority of my union co workers were mollified after reading it. Pissed at the union for lacking the balls to protect seasonals, but most of the anger was redirected away from me.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I know from experience it sucks.

Best of luck

*HUGS*

 

[oggbashan]

Australian conditions

A note of caution:

Australian Labour Laws are very different from those in the UK. However the principles of management/staff disputes are similar in most countries and the systems are biased AGAINST the staff.

Taking strike action, whether justified or not, will sour relationships with the employers for years to come and the employees who take that action may find that they are 'grey-listed' - not fired, but denied any promotion, advancement or priviledges.

Australia has a proud tradition of rebelling against the 'bosses' from the Eureka Stockade onwards but the people who do it don't always count the cost on the little guy.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

"Scab" has different meanings in different countries. In the UK and Australia it includes people who continue to work during a strike.

It is a label that is difficult to lose.

Colly's advice is sensible. If those organising a strike cannot protect probationers then they should not be asking you to be involved. That is unfair.

Og

 

[wishfulthinking]

I was the management's negotiator with 5 unions and 12 branches in three cities in the UK. A long time before that I was a union representative for 500 people.

I failed in my job if there was a strike. I also failed if the staff had a genuine grievance that wasn't addressed. Deciding what was, and what was not a 'genuine' grievance was the difficult part. Sometimes a union would be flying a kite, trying it on, and knowing that the management couldn't agree. Sometimes an apparently minor issue might have major consequences.

Og

Definitely a high pressure job. Particularly when a win wasn't always a win. You'd pick up a few skills, then some!

 

[oggbashan]

Definitely a high pressure job. Particularly when a win wasn't always a win. You'd pick up a few skills, then some!

A lot of my negotiation was done in the various 'pubs across the road' where we could meet unofficially and off the record. Most times the union reps and I were both wanting to settle the problem quietly and without fuss.

On one occasion the representatives had been mandated to stage a walkout of the negotiations at a formal meeting. I had a copy of their statement of dispute beforehand and we had agreed to amend the agenda so that the matters that both parties wanted agreed were dealt with before the walkout.

We then adjourned to the pub - together.

Og

 

[wishfulthinking]

If you work there already, you aren't a scab. A scab is someone hired to break a strike.

When I worked for the Phone co. the union decided on a work slow down. Like you, I was still a conditional hire, which meant I could be fired for taking part. I just went about my workday and did what I was supposed to.

I won't say it's always the case, but when I was confronted by union militants, the shop steward took my side. Basically, the union couldn't protect me if I started missing my jobs per day quota. Since they couldn't protect me, the steard told me to get my jobs done and ntot worry about the pressure. And it slacked off considerably afterwards.

There is a bottom line here, and one you must be cognizant of. It's your job. It's your livelyhood. And if you get fired, neither the agitator nor any of the others is going to help you find a new job. Ethically, your co workers cannot ask you to sacrifice your job for their betterment. If they do, I would say screw them.

Like Ogs said, inform them you can't. INf orm the union if there s one.

My only other suggestion would be rather than informing the union by mail you won't. Inquire of them to see if you would be protected. In general, if they can't protect you, they will exercise some latitude in dealing with your situation.

From my own point of view, no matter what, I would cross the pickett lines if my livelyhood was being risked while those picketting were risking nothing. I've crossed before, when I worked for the state. I got a lot of crap for a while, but I kept my job and took care of myself. I did arm myself with aleter from the union rep to the effect that since I was seasonal they could not do anything for me if I were fired. The vast majority of my union co workers were mollified after reading it. Pissed at the union for lacking the balls to protect seasonals, but most of the anger was redirected away from me.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I know from experience it sucks.

Best of luck

*HUGS*

for working in a phone company. Complaints would be a killer! But I'm glad they were realistic enough to accept that because they couldn't protect you, that you shouldn't be in the firing line.

There is no union for me. And if I participate, I would be left hanging in the wind. And I really like my job. Just not the political bullshit, which I always like to stay out of. Last time something much smaller cropped up, I said the "I'm here to get experience, I'm new and want to fly under the radar until I find my feet" and they respected that. Only this time it is going to get messy. There have already been leaks to the newspaper, and tension is building. But I can keep everyone happy. But I feel self serving.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

for working in a phone company. Complaints would be a killer! But I'm glad they were realistic enough to accept that because they couldn't protect you, that you shouldn't be in the firing line.

There is no union for me. And if I participate, I would be left hanging in the wind. And I really like my job. Just not the political bullshit, which I always like to stay out of. Last time something much smaller cropped up, I said the "I'm here to get experience, I'm new and want to fly under the radar until I find my feet" and they respected that. Only this time it is going to get messy. There have already been leaks to the newspaper, and tension is building. But I can keep everyone happy. But I feel self serving.

Baby, if there is no union involved, don't even consider joining in. There is such a thing as enlightened self interest. You have landed a job. You're making a decent wage. You are being unduly harsh on yourself.

If you were not risking being fired, then you are facing a certain moral dilemma. But that is not the case. Basically, you stand to gain nothing by striking, save the emnity of your employer. You stand to loose your livelihood.

Ethically, you cannot be expected to risk your job to further someone else's interests. Anyone who would expect that of you is practicing egocentric behavior far in excess of enlightened self interest.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Anyone who would expect that of you is practicing egocentric behavior far in excess of enlightened self interest.

You just described half my work place I'm sure the reason I get paid so much is to put up with em

Thanks for your words. I'm going to have to do some quick-step to try and get myself out of this. I was pretty much demanded by my superior today to start drafting up the statement that will be given to the media.

Where's the sand so I can stick my head in it?

Did the strike at the telephone company achieve what it wanted?


[PS I'm off to bed, I'll be back tomorrow!]

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You just described half my work place I'm sure the reason I get paid so much is to put up with em

Thanks for your words. I'm going to have to do some quick-step to try and get myself out of this. I was pretty much demanded by my superior today to start drafting up the statement that will be given to the media.

Where's the sand so I can stick my head in it?

Did the strike at the telephone company achieve what it wanted?


[PS I'm off to bed, I'll be back tomorrow!]

Oh yeah.

They got what they wanted. But it wasn't a strike, just a work slow down. It's sort of like the ultimate in poetic justice. If the union wants to put pressure on the company, they just start scrupulously obeying all the rules. The result is no work gets done.

Basically it starts with an inspection of your vehicle. All telco workers have to be DOT certified. the company, to spare themselves any expense, mandates you inspect your vehicle and don't go out in it if there are any DOT violations. If you get one, you have to pay it yourself, because company policy is that you never leave your garage without making sure your vehicle is up to snuff. That's fine for them, but during a slowdown, everyone follows this, with roughly 80% of all telco vehicles having minor violations, during a work slowdown you might have ovr half your gangs sitting in the break room sipping coffe, on the clock, while their vehicles are lined up out side the garage. And there isn't dick the foremen can do about it.

Once you get out, to limit their liability, the company insists you follow their own safety regluations and all osha regs. Basically, if you do, simply climbing a pole can take three or four hours to set up. And again, because you are following company policy, the foremen are helpless to try and make you go faster. And if you get to the top of a pole and your pair isn't where it's supposed to be? Normally, you just jump on a good pair nd call LDMC. But, company policy is for you to go to a CO and use the compnaies lines, rather than hijack a customer's line. Interestingly, it's also company policy never to leave your equiptment unattendeda t a work site. If you loose something in this manner, you are liable for it. So you have to take verything down, drive to the co, call LDmc, and by the time you get back to the pole, you don't have enough time left to go through the osah proceedure for setting up your safety measures. So you start. then stop and take it all down, go back to the garage and turn the job in as incomplete. So you get it again the next day and your other three? they all go back into the troubles/orders pool.

Three or four days of that and the company usually caves. they can't afford to have you following the rules scrupulously. Sad but true.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Three or four days of that and the company usually caves. they can't afford to have you following the rules scrupulously. Sad but true.

I can imagine. I'm surprised they held out 4 days with all the furious calls! But did they change those rules?

I sat one of them down today, emailed the other [on their private email] and the ringleader will find out soon, that:
- my ethical obligations to the court and to my clients overrides any industrial action in the workplace
- that upon being fired I have no legal recourses unlike others eg. sexual discrimination in that females can't travel for work [they let me] eg. underpayment of wages [they overpay me] etc
- that I like my job and that I'm there for experience
- that I support them and will do a work slowdown [thanks colly!]

I don't think the ringleader will put toooooo much pressure on me - he hasn't figured out how far he can push me [ie he hasn't realised that while he might go for the knee caps, I'll go for the balls ]

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[R. Richard]

If no one has raised the specific problems with the employers, striking seems premature. Negotiation should be attempted and be seen to fail before a strike is called.

Og

Couldn't agree more. First a written list of problems needs to be prepared by the workers/union. The written list of problems then needs to be turned over to management and discussions attempted. If discussions are refused or are conducted only with the aim of denying all complaints, then a strike can be called with justification.

JMHO.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Couldn't agree more. First a written list of problems needs to be prepared by the workers/union. The written list of problems then needs to be turned over to management and discussions attempted. If discussions are refused or are conducted only with the aim of denying all complaints, then a strike can be called with justification.

JMHO.

The problem was, because I suggested that we write a letter, they wanted me to do it. I was a bit put out because it wasn't a joint effort.

Question 1: who wrote it?
Answer: we all did
Question 2: who typed it?
Answer: wishful did

A bit chicken liver of me

 

[wishfulthinking]

Strike doesn't look like it is going ahead at this stage. Will know tomorrow

A leak made it to the govt, and the govt called our bosses, and they let us know they know, and would not put up with it. One of our workers told them 'not to threaten us'. It wasn't a good moment, and left everyone shitty - because it was a threat. But it may have got the message across that things are critical and no one is putting up with the shit anymore without the need to strike.