Don't Get Cocky

[ChloeTzang]

More sugar in that coffee, LC?

My sympathy here is all with the other authors this copyright has impacted and I hope for their sake it gets settled quickly. The instigator of all of this comes across as a sadly delusional person, but she's not just hurting herself so I understand the backlash. If I'd been hit the way some others have I'd be furious about it. I think in this case we'll see something good come out of it in the end and even Amazon seems to have backed off, which is amazing.

 

[SimonDoom]

LC, I think your critique above is off-base. The response of people on this thread, I think, is one of appropriate outrage. Some of the tactics suggested might be a bit silly, but the issue is a serious one. Authors rightly see this as a case of an inappropriate exercise of a manufactured legal right that impinges on authors' creative rights. Being prevented from using a common adjective in a book title because somebody's lawyer registered a trademark in it is a legitimate and intellectually serious concern to authors. People here are taking a break (temporary, maybe) from kvetching about red Hs and anon comments. It's exactly the sort of issue one would want to see authors discussing on a thread like this.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Are people really that stupid?

Wait, what am I saying? Of course they are!

I've generally found, when trying to understand a puzzling act or attitude, that if ignorance, stupidity or greed could be factors, not to waste time looking any further.

 

[Requiax]

Something this debacle has taught me-not here, but what's going in the pay writing community is an affirmation of the fact people are idiots.

When you start selling you are now a business and a brand. You have to take it seriously to have any type of success, especially sustained, and you have to be professional-yes even publishing porn you have to be a professional.

All I see on social media now is personal attacks against this woman from 'authors' threats, abuse, and of course the litany of they're all going to post books with cocky in it to get even with her. Contesting the decision? Asking platforms where they stand on it? Being careful and not using a word they had no desire to use anyway until this runs its course and is over turned? Those are boring adult things to do.

They're all setting themselves up for trouble with amazon and perhaps other sites. Amazon is going to get real sick of this real quick and they are amazon, they will block with impunity and what are you going to do about it.

These people should know that. They should also know that other people are looking at them slinging insults and acting like children. Way to sell books and be taken seriously.

Having said all that, I'll apologize for posting about the potential disaster in the paid market and wasting my breath in speaking about professionalism, responsibility, damaging your own brand, risking your own books due to mass banning, and making yourself look like a bullying sack of shit on the internet where it will live forever under the name you're trying to sell books under.

At times I forget where I am so I'll leave you all to talk about the really important things. Like sweeps and red H's. This isn't the platform to talk about anything unrelated to what anonymous is up to now, what story should I write that will get the most votes and discussing why underage sex can't be written here.

I’m more interested in this than in moaning about anons etc.

And you’re right.

Theres two ways “cockygate” has been responded to. There’s what the RWA and Writer’s Guild, and the attorney Kevin Kneuper have done, which is to try and look at legal processes to challenge what Hopkins has done (because enabling an author to copyright a common-vernacular word for exclusive use in titles and then use legal bullying and the threat of the Amazon banhammer to force other indie writers to change their book titles to not use that word has quite sizeable repercussions - imagine if a sci-if writer copyrighted Alien or Starship?) These are good, helpful steps.

Then there’s what I ike to call “all the other bullshit on Twitter” - peanut-gallery drama porn (someone livetweeted the woman’s Facebook video for God’s sake) and mob bullying, not to mention all the people trying to flood Amazon with deliberately hacky “cocky” stories...

I share your concern that the latter may escalate to the point where it inadvertently undermines the former, encouraging Amazon to harsh action (to which they are no stranger) rather than ensuring greater protection for indie writers from abuse through legal processes.

This isn’t to defend Felina Hopkins, who is a badly-behaved bully herself. But many people are making this about her as a person, when the real concern is the idea of what she had managed to do, and the lack of protection indie writers get from Amazon if they are targeted this way.

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

At least someone's having fun with this:

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Q9-MdGloCpxteurQzGBAMwAAAA%26pid%3D15.1&f=1

 

[ausfet]

LoveCraft, I completely agree with the sentiment that it's now become an accepted pastime for hordes of people to leap to the destruction of someone else because they like feeling outraged, and attacking some faceless person online boosts their pathetic self esteem. Half the time I suspect the angry masses don't even know what they're truly angry about, they just like being angry.

 

[ChloeTzang]

LoveCraft, I completely agree with the sentiment that it's now become an accepted pastime for hordes of people to leap to the destruction of someone else because they like feeling outraged, and attacking some faceless person online boosts their pathetic self esteem. Half the time I suspect the angry masses don't even know what they're truly angry about, they just like being angry.

Oh, I'd agree, but in this case I think it's something to jump on

 

[ausfet]

Oh, I'd agree, but in this case I think it's something to jump on

To the degree that it's happening, though? She needed to be told in no uncertain terms to pull her neck in, but there's something a bit...gross?... about the degree of delight that some people take in tearing her to shreds. I think that's what LC was trying to say; that there is a difference between firm correction/disapproval and jumping on a bandwagon because it's fun to wield pitchforks.

 

[GrandTeton]

I suspect Chloe is right, that this kind of idiocy needs jumping on, though there's no question the person involved is venal and stupid, and perhaps we should make allowances.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Note: this is about trademark, not copyright. For anybody who wants to understand this sort of issue, it's worth knowing the difference between the two.

Theres two ways “cockygate” has been responded to. There’s what the RWA and Writer’s Guild, and the attorney Kevin Kneuper have done, which is to try and look at legal processes to challenge what Hopkins has done (because enabling an author to copyright a common-vernacular word for exclusive use in titles and then use legal bullying and the threat of the Amazon banhammer to force other indie writers to change their book titles to not use that word has quite sizeable repercussions - imagine if a sci-if writer copyrighted Alien or Starship?)

We don't have to imagine very hard. There was a similar incident in SF a few years back: Maggie (M.C.) Hogarth published a novel named "Spots the Space Marine", and Games Workshop got Amazon to take it down, claiming infringement on their trademark for "space marine".

Anybody who reads SF probably doesn't need me to tell them that this is every bit as absurd as claiming ownership of "cocky" in romance. But GW are notoriously litigious, and Hogarth didn't have deep pockets, which I presume is why she didn't take it to court.

There was a bit of an outcry about it, and eventually Amazon relisted her book. I don't think she ever got any compensation for the sales lost - having your book unavailable for purchase in the weeks after release is a major setback - and GW never suffered any penalty for that bit of trademark bullying. No doubt other authors are looking at that and thinking, yeah, I'm just not gonna go there, let them have the words - so GW end up with de facto possession of "space marine" even though they have no right to it.

Everybody here knows that the legal system isn't on the side of small-league authors. Every couple of months we have a new thread about assholes who rip off our work and sell it on Amazon. The best we can hope for is to get it taken down for a few hours until they pop up under a new ID somewhere else; even if you've paid to register your work, there's exactly zero hope of ever recouping a cent from these thieves.

Even major companies often choose to pay the trolls or avoid using stuff that should be public domain, rather than fight it in court. There's a reason you'll almost never hear the song "Happy Birthday" in films made before 2013...

I think that context goes some way to explaining the reaction. People don't have faith in the legal system to deliver any kind of justice when this sort of bullshit happens, so they take matters into their own hands.

The RWA's involvement is a welcome exception, and the ferocity of the online reaction probably has something to do with why RWA intervened. It's not like they hire a lawyer every time one romance author has a beef with another.

 

[ElectricBlue]

To the degree that it's happening, though? She needed to be told in no uncertain terms to pull her neck in, but there's something a bit...gross?... about the degree of delight that some people take in tearing her to shreds. I think that's what LC was trying to say; that there is a difference between firm correction/disapproval and jumping on a bandwagon because it's fun to wield pitchforks.

You act feral, you get feral in return. Why are people surprised at the "go for the jugular" reaction?

It's a pretty good indicator to me that she went a big step too far, and the market-place is pushing back. It's no different to the share market, it's an "adjustment" - and a new line being drawn as to what's acceptable behaviour and what isn't.

At the risk of being considered "political" - this next is an observation, not a soap-box - this is also democracy speaking, people voting with their voices. In Australia, this happens all the time (electoral voting is compulsory, so we're used to public opinion, here), whereas you guys in America do it differently, and a groundswell of a voice isn't something you're as used to. Which might be why LC taints it "liberal backlash." Nope, it's just a bunch of folk letting her know she sucks.

It'll sort itself out in a week or two. Truly a first world problem, methinks.

Carry on!

 

[ChloeTzang]

I suspect Chloe is right, that this kind of idiocy needs jumping on, though there's no question the person involved is venal and stupid, and perhaps we should make allowances.

No. I could agree I'd she'd acknowledged her mistake and retracted what she did but she went beyond that. She knew the impact she was having on fellow writers, she gloated over it and she's had a track record of posting one star reviews on other authors books. That 2 hour video was just insane and using Amazon the way she did, weaponizing Amazon, she deserves everything she's getting. Hopefully by the time this shakes down she'll serve as an example to any others with the same idea.

 

[ausfet]

You act feral, you get feral in return.

Classy.

And that's coming from a Logan girl.

 

[ThatsTheGuy]

I’m more interested in this than in moaning about anons etc.

And you’re right.

Theres two ways “cockygate” has been responded to. There’s what the RWA and Writer’s Guild, and the attorney Kevin Kneuper have done, which is to try and look at legal processes to challenge what Hopkins has done (because enabling an author to copyright a common-vernacular word for exclusive use in titles and then use legal bullying and the threat of the Amazon banhammer to force other indie writers to change their book titles to not use that word has quite sizeable repercussions - imagine if a sci-if writer copyrighted Alien or Starship?) These are good, helpful steps.

Then there’s what I ike to call “all the other bullshit on Twitter” - peanut-gallery drama porn (someone livetweeted the woman’s Facebook video for God’s sake) and mob bullying, not to mention all the people trying to flood Amazon with deliberately hacky “cocky” stories...

I share your concern that the latter may escalate to the point where it inadvertently undermines the former, encouraging Amazon to harsh action (to which they are no stranger) rather than ensuring greater protection for indie writers from abuse through legal processes.

This isn’t to defend Felina Hopkins, who is a badly-behaved bully herself. But many people are making this about her as a person, when the real concern is the idea of what she had managed to do, and the lack of protection indie writers get from Amazon if they are targeted this way.

Thank you. Especially for that emboldened portion. Most of the thinking of us attacking Hopkins should be more concerned with the implications of future problems and how to prevent them now. Hopkins will or could become her own collateral damage instead of us left in her wake.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

so apparently this went to court last week or so and the judge ruled no on the temporary restraining order preventing books from using cocky in the title...but the case could meander on for over a year.

 

[Hypoxia]

so apparently this went to court last week or so and the judge ruled no on the temporary restraining order preventing books from using cocky in the title...but the case could meander on for over a year.

Hopefully her attorneys will continue billing her.

 

[Valint]

It's a shame that the only person who seems to be actually attacking her trademark registration is Kevin Kneuper. He's apparently a patent attorney, and very obviously not a trademark attorney, judging from some pretty basic errors he made in his filing.

 

[Touch_type]

On a lighter note

I've always been taken by the attempts (and subsequent failures for the most part) of corporations to trademark prefixes - McDonalds (Mc), Apple (i), easyJet (easy). In a similar vein Toys 'R Us ('R). I once worked under a military censorship regime and had half a word blue pencilled.

Some years ago a junk shop on London's Seven Sisters Road called itself 'Arrods; complete with designer carrier bags. Always made me smile and I went there for all my second-hand needs until the lawyers' letter arrived and they had to change the name.