Don't Ask: Failing the Kids Glove rule

[daughter]

WS--

Move over. I'm joining your camp. I have had one too many request for feedback when really the author wanted me to praise the work to the high heavens.

Excuse the hell out of me. If folks want fan mail, we have thousands of readers reading this site daily. They read your story. Stroke your ego with a "5" and ocassionally write and tell you how great the story is(often don't tell you why though).


I take my time to read the story/poem. Take my time to write something that is honest and constructive, and I get cussed out because,"Obviously, you just don't like my writing."

Why would I take the time to reply if I weren't interested in a writer's efforts?

I don't blow sunshine up folks butts, but I ain't interested in shooting anyone down either. So if you don't care for my brand of feedback, don't ask.

Cheerleaders root even when the team is losing. The coach tells the team to get their ass in gear. I don't even use expletives. That's as good as it's going to get.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Lynn]

To lie, perhaps to cheat the author.

Isn't that the key, tell the truth?

When I want people to read my stuff I send out e-mail or go on chat and talk about it. Forums are no place to ask for readers.

I hope it is a place to ask for help.

I have (in the past) commented on just about every story that has come through this forum (OK, not everyone, I do like Aruba and Bermuda - and the international phone charges for connections are high), and I have never been shot at or harrassed about what I say, and I can be pretty "constructive."

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, and keep up the good work.

 

[daughter]

F--k 'em

Lynn--

Oh, my. How do you get away with that?

Maybe I have failed to pay my dues or to earn the writer's trust. I don't know. Call me weird, but I have never cussed out a critic. I thank them for their time. It doesn't matter if I agree with their assestment or not. Afterall, I shared my work publicly. Folks are free to comment. And if I specifically, request feedback, where do I get off trying to complain?

Now, I know you will find this hard to believe, but gaining some humility didn't come easy for me. But, hell after enough humiliation, the choice wasn't too hard.

Thanks for speaking your mind. Tell it, girl.

Peace,

daughter

 

[horny_giraffe]

While I can understand that you may feel that people shouldn't complain when they get requested criticism, (not necessarily always negative criticism); I also feel like one should perhaps be aware of the level that the author is at, and aim the criticism at that level. While an author may not say "Look, I'm obviously a novice writer"--it seems to me that you can easily judge a particular story and perhaps moderate the level of feedback.

There's got to be a diplomatic way of saying "Your writing needs a lot of work, but I think you have good ideas." Obviously, if there is only one grammar mistake in my whole story, I would want a critic to point it out. But if I have three hundred grammar mistakes, I would rather hear something like "Your grammar needs a lot of work." An exhaustive, itemized critique could blow the grammar problem completely out of proportion to my ability level. It would be like saying "You are so far from meeting the standard of perfection that you may as well just give up, right now."

I can imagine that you felt hurt, "daughter," after you put in a great deal of effort and your criticism was essentially rejected. I would be irritated and perhaps a little baffled, too.

 

[p_p_man]

The kindest criticism I've ever received...

was from the editor of a magazine called "Chat".

She must have realised I was new to writing (In fact looking back I had a helluva cheek submitting it in the first place). But instead of sending me the usual rejection slip she took the time and trouble to write to me personally pointing out how I could improve. Not to write long rambling sentences, study the type of magazine I was submitting to and write for their market, Don't pad out as magazines always have the odd space to fill and a tiny story quite often fits the bill and lots of other things.

She moved on four years later but from her I learn't how to make my work publishable.

I call that dedication to your art!

ps Mind you when I needed to be admonished she never pulled her punches...

 

[daughter]

critics can be novices, too

p_m__ & Horny_ giraffe--

Thank you both. I agree, consider the skillset of the author. I have been using phrases and trying to emulate the tone of peers who write better than I. I remember saying something like, this is good, but I think there's something more here." A friend had used the phrasing and it worked. The community didn't chastise him for a saying this and the author was receptive. When I used it, the author said I insulted he/she personally and trashed his/her work. Talk about being frustrated.

I know to become a better writer, you have to write. I believed the same was true with critiques. Write them, practice, experiment. Progress takes time.

Of course, it doesn't help that I am out-spoken and aggressive. I think my disposition impresses some that when I'm frank, I am mean. From now on I will be sure the person knows my style and beliefs about writing. I don't want hurt feelings for either of us.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Guest]

frank? oh yeah nothing wrong with frank at all but what about the fact that you trashed others wrote. There was not one kind thing you had to say in your feedback to me that was , I add unasked for, constructive critisicm not belittling.
And yet when REDWAVE started a poll you couldn't handle the feedback. Double standards. Can give but not receive.

 

[daughter]

Unregistered--

I do not attack individuals. I give feedback on writing. There is a difference. And if you are who I think you are, I thanked you for your critique. I did not say it was unfair nor belittling. In fact, I asked you how to correct an area you referred to.

I ask for feedback on my work, not your judgement about my character.

I did not belittle you. I said I thought the text needed work. It's just an opinion. I trust that you know best whether to toss or use what I offer.

You said you're no longer corresponding with me.

Peace,

daughter

p.s. Bowing out.

 

[Lynn]

I bet...

I bet that you get chastised for your critiques for one reason and one reason only. Especially if you use the same tone as other writers who get no crappy feedback.

Your NAME - Nobody, but nobody wants to be told by their or anyone else's DAUGHTER that their writing (or anything else for that matter) need improvement, even if the words are couched with praise for posting in the first place and points out the good things.

Just trying to lighten up the mood slightly. I'll just move along now.

 

[daughter]

lynn

Gurl--

Please lighten it up!!!! LOL


And if you must know, Ms. Thang, my full name is Rasputin's daughter. So there.

Hey, it's all good. Got take the mud with the sunshine.

That and I whined to my sweetie. He said, "Baby, you know how you are." Then he told me he'd make me feel better later.

Hmmm. Gotta cry more often.

Peace,

d

 

[Couture]

I am not unregistered. I said everything I had to say already.

 

[Whispersecret]

Sometimes it is difficult to separate ourselves from our writing. Sometimes when someone tells us our writing is "adolescent" we feel that we've been labelled as "adolescent."

Just chalk it up to experience. Take a look at what you told her. Think about whether you could have phrased it more gently. Decide whether you should have phrased it more gently. Perhaps not. But I learned that it's safer to err on the side of gentle than direct, because if you're too direct, you risk being dismissed, and your effort is wasted (as you now see.) Still being gentle is more time-consuming. You have to gauge whether your time and effort is worth it.

I get satisfaction from helping others write better, but sometimes my time is at a premium and that satisfaction isn't enough. Like right now. My own writing is more important to me, so editing for virtual strangers is way at the bottom of my priority list.

Perhaps you should concentrate on your own stuff for a while.

 

[daughter]

Words of wisedom

Gurl--

Ain't that the truth. You know I thought just as you outlined(after the fact of course).

Being here has kicked me into revision mode and I'm jotting notes for a new story.

So Yeah, the shingle has come down.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Guest]

glad to hear that you are writing that may mean those of us who love writing at Literotica may read our emails/personal feedback tomorrow without your unwarranted/unasked for critisicm and constant barrage of my new poem feedback please read and give feedback . peace daughter.

Yeah I haven't turned off feedback but I wish I could in your case.
Maybe you need to have your work interpreted your style. ? No I guess you wouldn't be able to handle what you have given out. Self promotion is a good thing, pride in one's work the same , but when you contact people and hand out your definition of opinionated critisicm that is not equalled with any encouragement at all then you wonder why you get a bit of flack.

Get real, daughter. Be honest how many people have you contacted with no diplomacy, respect or tact and said hey I have very little to say than crap crap crap and no nice stuff at all? Something to think about.

Your poetry is very good. I like what you have to say and the way you write.

 

[daughter]

What's your name

Unregistered--

The only barrage is your anonymous attacks.
Unregistered,
Unimportant.
Unheard.

daughter

 

[KillerMuffin]

I wasn't going to bill into this one, but...

There are two kinds of unregistered out there, trolls and genuine people. There are a lot of genuine people who prefer to post something more anonymously.

I find that when people criticize me, they prefer to do so as unregistered because I attack back. I don't, actually, blame them for it. Criticizing some people is an open invitation for a full scale nuclear style retaliation. I am one of those retaliatory people. So are you, daughter. No, you don't go for the throat like I do, but you do attack.

Your last post, which you've modified before I read it, stated as much. Unregistered, unimportant, unheard. That was a genuine poster your attacked. That poster offered you criticism that you didn't care for. Rather than responding to that criticism, you reacted and attacked. Now if the person has a regular registered name and isn't very confrontational, they may not want to carry on a war with you every time you post together. It's the downside of having a strong personality. Accept it and get over it. Unregistered does not equal troll. Unregistered does not equal unimportant. Unregistered does not equal unheard. Unless you are narrow-minded and unable to admit to your own weakness, let alone looking to correct them.

While critical of you, it wasn't a hostile post on unregistered's part. It was a clear delineation of what that poster thought you did that was wrong when it comes to critique. Yes, you critique harshly. Yes, you have no tact when it comes to critiqueing. Most offensively, when you critique, you are condescending and you talk down to them. I can handle criticism. Most people can't.

Just by posting a story here, people aren't automatically requesting a full on critque. Personally, when I receive an unasked for critique in the style you use, I blow it off. Why? Writing is not a learned thing. It is not something you go to college for or something that you are an expert at. Writing is an inborn thing. Yes, people can learn to write effectively and very well without that inner thing. But like musicians, painters, mathmeticians, scientists, and every other field, you either are or you're not. Like art and music, writing is one of those gifts where expertise isn't learned, you either have it or you don't. You can learn the mechanics at school, how to effectively create a plot, and how to develop your character. But you will never be an expert at it. There are no experts in writing. When someone speaks down to me, I don't listen.

If you're getting a lot of peole complaining about your critique style, then perhaps there might be substance to it. Re-examine the way you're doing things. Everyone has room for improvement in all things. Not just in their writing.

You must also realize, and I don't think you do, that the majority of the people who post here will never do any more writing than to post their fantasies here. They aren't even rank beginners in the field of writing, because they are not in the field of writing. They found a place where they can share their fantasies. To them, it's about sex, not writing. To some, like me, we're serious about writing and it's not about having fun with sex.

 

[Couture]

WhisperSecret, yes I do take it personal when someone says my writing is adolescent. Same as I would if they said it was boring or I so bad that I just need to give it up.

Hell, I've reviewed writing that was . . . well . . . bad. I would have never taken it upon myself to tell the writer that. The writer created the work. It is a part of the writer. The writer would without a doubt take it *personally*, if I said it stunk. The same way I take it *personally* when someone says my writing is adolescent/immature. In my review of the writer, I simply picked out the grammatical errors and then made two suggestions for them to improve upon.

Why two? Well, according to Dixon, I've got about eight things I'm not doing right, including being guilty of adolescent writing. He said it in a decent way, so I'm not mad about it, but frankly, there are just too many suggestions for me to worry about. More good would have been accomplished by telling me *one or two* things I *most* need to improve.

Also, if someone else wants to do me a favor and review my writing, please pick something else other than The Smell of Sex. It is purposefully written in a comic book style. Hell, I even have some <Smack!> and <Slurp!> and <ZZZZzzt!> sounds in there, just like the old Batman comics. Last I checked, it was rated #4 and has been all the way to #1, so evidently, a few readers out there have a 'jones' for Pantygirl. I mean, come on . . . in chapter two I even come out and say that Laura looked like a twisted version of a costumed crusader with the panties covering her head!

 

[Manjaro_Eve]

I just wanted to share my experiences that I've had with daughter. She's been very kind and very helpful. And I really appreciate the new things she's taught me, and the advice she's given me. I've even shared some personal things with her because I found her to be very likable. And I've enjoyed her email. I also think her poetry is very good.
NO, I'm not kissing butt! lol This is just my personal experience with her. So I know she has it in her to be a very kind and tactful person, the same as she has it in her to be a pain in the butt just like the rest of us!

 

[RisiaSkye]

This is bizarre.

I don't know what provoked all of this (you see what happens when you go away for a few days?), but here's my experience, for whatever it's worth:

daughter sent me a feedback on, I think "Athletic Discipline." It was positive, if brief. We exchanged feedbacks on a couple of other poems. I suggested the strengths and weaknesses I saw, and she did the same.

I don't know what she thought of my tone, but it seemed to me that she was direct and opinionated, but looking to be constructive. So, I read her critique as just that--a brash but honest and well intended opinion, for my use as a writer. I agreed with some things, and disagreed with others. And all go into the bin of thoughts about my next work. Period.

Yeah, criticism is hard, and sometimes it's unasked for, unqualified or harshly worded, etc. Personal attacks are hard too. When someone goes after your intelligence, family, personal morality, or other identity issues, it hurts. But they aren't the same thing. Your writing isn't you. Don't take it personally, alright?

But, what do I know? I bitch when someone sends me a nasty e-mail.

RS

 

[KatPurrs]

Risia......

Hey Girlfriend!

All I can say about this is I am SO GLAD I asked you to take a look at what I was struggling with. You gently, and sometimes comically, pointed out The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and that was just what I needed! And NO! I still haven't gotten a story together. Seems like I have scattered chapters, scenes, thoughts all over the place. Story of my life. Sheesh!

Actually though, I think I've studied what you said and have applied it. I'm feeling good about my new stuff, thanks to you!

Kat~

 

[RisiaSkye]

KatPurrs--Thanks for the compliment. I meant what I said--I don't take the time to respond to something that doesn't already contain significant merits. And I know that I'm just one opinionated person, not the world's expert. I'm glad that my thoughts have been helpful to you, and I look forward to reading your story, whenever you find the time and inclination to finish it!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, I just went and got all excited about blabbering about writing again and felt the need to tie it in somehow. I'm like the queen of bad critiquing. I've sent people wailing to the Den Mother du Jour about my *ahem* method of critique.

My only real thought when I started writing my response to this thread was that Unregistered isn't always a troll and shouldn't be automatically dismissed.

Then I get going. And going. And editing, and tinkering, and noticing the subject line and how I failed to say anything about that and then the bit is in the teeth and off I go.

Well then. Here's a link of the nostalgic days of yore. Muffster at her worst: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15455

 

[KillerMuffin]

And I forget my whole point in posting to this again.

I'm sorry, Daughter.

 

[Guest]

Wow! That's all we can say is just, "WOW!" Right now.

We just got here, & it looks like a very nice place.

Hello, everybody, mind if we join you?

It looks like SO MUCH FUN &
maybe a chance to GROW
in wisdom and humility
while we bask in the GOLW
of so MUCH

LOVE!

Lucky & Pixie

 

[KichigaiFufu]

We weren't signed up yet? OH NO! Why can't we post? PLEASE, won't some Guru HELP us?

Sorry. We honestly thought we'd joined Literotica already.

There. NOW we're REALLY glad to be here.

We hope!

*Shy VIRGIN smiles & BLUSHES*

Lucky & Pixie

. . .

A bit later, after trying the "Preview" button:


OH NO! What ARE we doing wrong? HELP!


Our problem: We signed up, made a profile (uid # = 63024), logged on, and came back here to post as members; however, every time we try with our member name & password (Yes. We checked by cut-n-pasting it in.) the User name box changes to "Unregistered." SOB!

Solutionn ?

P.s. Sorry again to waste everyone's time by being so silly, & THANKS!