Dom in a fight: What a Sub gonna do?

Dom in a fight! What's a sub to do?

  • -The sub would realize their Dom was in the wrong and make an effort to get them out of that

    Votes: 22 53.7%
  • -The faithful sub would not see their beloved Dom as being in the wrong. Out of love and loya

    Votes: 5 12.2%
  • -The sub isn’t blind; they know their Dom is in the wrong. But they’re not going to interfere. The D

    Votes: 9 22.0%
  • -The sub is going to be blind to their Dom being in the wrong. In their view if the Dom says the sky

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • - Are you kidding? No matter what the sub feels about the rightness/wrongness of the argument, the D

    Votes: 11 26.8%

  • Total voters
    41

3113

Hello Summer!
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Posts
13,823
Greetings. I’m an author writing a story that involves a BDSM couple and I’m in need of some help. Let me assure you, first off, that I know that all relationships are different no matter what the lifestyle, and that realistically, the answer to my question is: “It depends on the couple, on the kind of people involved.” Nevertheless, I’ve a hypothetical question about a hypothetical and, obviously, fictitious situation and I’d like your gut reaction on how you think it’d go. I’ve made the answers a poll (you can pick more than one answer) to better see what the majority think.

The hypothetical couple: They are in a 24/7, Dom/sub relationship. I’m going to venture to say that the sexes don’t matter, though if you disagree and feel it would make a significant difference, please let me know. So our relationship could be a male Dom and sub, or a Dominatrix and sub, two men in that relationship or two women. The important thing is that the relationship is realistic (not an erotic fantasy of some ultra-rich Dom and their sex slave), and it isn’t a part-time thing. They are always Dom/sub. There’s never any switching of roles or question about who is in charge; they have their own private rituals and rules that they stick to. They’ve been together about a year and have had their ups, downs, disagreements, etc, but all-in-all, they’re an excellent fit for each other and a happy couple.

They hypothetical situation: The two are out in public as a “regular” couple (not at a BDSM venue). The Dom gets into an altercation with someone, either a complete stranger or a casual acquaintance. It’s a verbal fight that starts to escalate into something ugly. Objective observers of this altercation will attest, after the fact, that the Dom was in the wrong and that someone who knew the Dom could and should have interfered, dialing the situation down before it got out of hand.

The question: What would the sub’s position be in such a situation? As you’ll see from the poll above, I’d like to know two things: Would the sub recognize that their Dom was in the wrong? And whether they recognized that or not, would they do anything? From a sub’s point of view, would they feel it their place to support their Dom, right or wrong? Or would they feel it their place to “protect” their Dom from making a bad mistake, even if it goes against the grain of the relationship?

I’m honestly stumped about how my story should go and any thoughts or insights would be very, very much appreciated. Again, I know that the answer really depends on the personalities of the couple involved, but I’m looking for a consensus on what you feel would be most likely given your personal knowledge and lifestyle experiences.

Thank you so much for your help! :rose:
 
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forget that....now I see the poll lol.....its that huge thing at the top of the page. doh
 
well hear is one perspective from a submissive and slave in a 24/7 M/s dynamic. as far as i'm concerned, my Master is always right, even when he is "wrong", it is my place to stand by him and support him in all things. it would not be my place to get involved in any way however in an altercation between him and someone else. not verbally, not physically. in such a situation it would be my place to stay out of the way, keep my mouth shut, and do as i'm told.
 
ownedsubgal said:
well hear is one perspective from a submissive and slave in a 24/7 M/s dynamic. as far as i'm concerned, my Master is always right, even when he is "wrong", it is my place to stand by him and support him in all things. it would not be my place to get involved in any way however in an altercation between him and someone else. not verbally, not physically. in such a situation it would be my place to stay out of the way, keep my mouth shut, and do as i'm told.
Thank you *so much* for answering! This is just the sort of insight I was looking for it. It helps a lot.
 
well I'm not in a 24/7 and so can't speak with the same experience as ownedsubgirl. But I do know what I would do in that situation...rightly or wrongly.

There isn't an option that I feel really covers it, so I haven't voted.
But I would see that he has done something wrong and I would tell him that I thought so and why, in a respectful way. At that point though I think I would butt out and leave him to decide what actions/decisions to make. *shrugs* I'm no expert...but thats what I would do.

You are right though it depends on the relationship and the dynamics involved. I am sure you will get a whole variety of answers here because of that.
 
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minx1 said:
forget that....now I see the poll lol.....its that huge thing at the top of the page. doh
Heh. :eek: Apologies for the length. I feared that if I simplified it, it would sound frivolous and offensive. So I kinda went overboard in the other direction.
 
3113 said:
Heh. :eek: Apologies for the length. I feared that if I simplified it, it would sound frivolous and offensive. So I kinda went overboard in the other direction.

Lol no the comment was directed at myself for missing it!
 
For me I dont belive I would see my D being in the wrong and besides it is HIS job to protect me not the other way around so I would say I would maybe try to tell him it isnt worth it and then try to get him to walk away... if not I gotta let him battle out his battles
 
This is a hard one because there are a lot of outside factors...and the genders do indeed make a difference to me. i would be more inclined to "break-up" a fight between two women as opposed to two men for example.

To try to answer your question...i would politely and respectfully tell my Dom i thought he was in the wrong in a particular situation. NOT in the heat of the moment though. What good does that do except pour fuel on the fire?!?! Doms (and subs) are only human...all prone to making mistakes...and even making an ass out of themselves at times. Perhaps it is the "mom" in me, but i have a very protective streak with those that i care about and would feel it was my duty and obligation to my Dom to warn him of the possible dangers of a situation like you described. If i stand by and just watch it happen, am i really being a "good sub," or loyal to us and our relationship?
 
HottieMama said:
This is a hard one because there are a lot of outside factors...and the genders do indeed make a difference to me. i would be more inclined to "break-up" a fight between two women as opposed to two men for example.

To try to answer your question...i would politely and respectfully tell my Dom i thought he was in the wrong in a particular situation. NOT in the heat of the moment though. What good does that do except pour fuel on the fire?!?! Doms (and subs) are only human...all prone to making mistakes...and even making an ass out of themselves at times. Perhaps it is the "mom" in me, but i have a very protective streak with those that i care about and would feel it was my duty and obligation to my Dom to warn him of the possible dangers of a situation like you described. If i stand by and just watch it happen, am i really being a "good sub," or loyal to us and our relationship?

yeah and what hottie said.
 
SubKekiLee said:
For me I dont belive I would see my D being in the wrong and besides it is HIS job to protect me not the other way around so I would say I would maybe try to tell him it isnt worth it and then try to get him to walk away... if not I gotta let him battle out his battles
Do you feel then that the sex of the participants also matters? In your situation it's a male Dom with a female sub, and, as you say, this makes it the Dom's place to protect you, not vice versa. Would it be the same, however, if the couple involved were a Dominatrix and her male sub? Would it be the sub's place, in that case, to protect his mistress rather than her protecting him?

And I guess, if I'm going to open that can of worms (stupid me!), we're also going to have to wonder about the sex of the person the D is arguing with. 'Cause I seriously doubt a guy in any kind of relationship is going to be foolish enough to put himself in the middle of a nasty fight between two women....
 
None of the poll options really fit for me.

He's right 99% of the time (he'd probably say 100%, but even he admits to screwing up sometimes ;) ), but he likes me (in part) for my mind and my judgement; part of my place in his life is to tell him (in rather blunt terms) when I think he is fucking up, has fucked up, why I think he's fucked up, and ask if he'd like my suggestion for a remedy for said fuck up. I'm perfectly welcome to disagree with him - as long as it's done respectfully, am capable of supporting my position in the argument, and we both realize that the odds are he's right. LOL (I think I have changed his mind on a thing or two... I think.)

If he were having a discussion with someone else, and I was there and felt he were seriously in the wrong, I'd say something as unobtrusively as possible (because I am expected to speak my mind if I wish to), but I dislike calling people out in front of their peers... then again he's not the sort who gets into heated arguments, so I can't imagine him getting into a situation I'd have to help him get out of, so it's a bit of a moot point. LOL
 
I'd tend to think that the sub would not interfere publicly. Any gender, any role, it makes the most sense if you live this, being socially uncomfortable is not really a concern.

Privately discussing this is about the only dignified option of a reasonable person I can consider.

Choosing between doing something disrespectful to someone you care for publicly versus letting other people come to their own conclusions - no contest.

Edited to add: If I got in the way of my husband during a fight...I'd probably be dead. He's big and fast. And I'm expected to cover his back...and he doesn't need my help, he can handle himself.

If he told me to reload for him, I would. Maybe having a physically frightening guy as a partner makes a difference in my attitude here.
 
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3113 said:
Do you feel then that the sex of the participants also matters? In your situation it's a male Dom with a female sub, and, as you say, this makes it the Dom's place to protect you, not vice versa. Would it be the same, however, if the couple involved were a Dominatrix and her male sub? Would it be the sub's place, in that case, to protect his mistress rather than her protecting him?

And I guess, if I'm going to open that can of worms (stupid me!), we're also going to have to wonder about the sex of the person the D is arguing with. 'Cause I seriously doubt a guy in any kind of relationship is going to be foolish enough to put himself in the middle of a nasty fight between two women....

I dont know cause I am not a domantrix. but I would think that it is natural progression if it were a domantrix and Sub maloe, his natural protection would come out no matter what , most male subs Ive met ( i havent met that many) are only sub in the "closet" may I say and act and do normal male things in public. I belive it is Dom/Domme's responsiblity to protect but I cant truthfully give you an anwser about the male sub thing.. as for the two women fighting.. Well I dont think most men would jump in cause we have been told we dont fight fairly IMO
 
HottieMama said:
If i stand by and just watch it happen, am i really being a "good sub," or loyal to us and our relationship?
This is very much what I was wondering about. I suspect that the answers will be split down the middle between "my Dom right or wrong," and "subs don't let Doms drive drunk" (i.e., if the D's gonna harm him/herself it's a sub's duty to save them even if it involves stepping out of line). Obviously, the details of the situation would make a difference.
 
3113 said:
This is very much what I was wondering about. I suspect that the answers will be split down the middle between "my Dom right or wrong," and "subs don't let Doms drive drunk" (i.e., if the D's gonna harm him/herself it's a sub's duty to save them even if it involves stepping out of line). Obviously, the details of the situation would make a difference.

His right and my wrong are two different things, also.

Even as a parent I have discovered that mommy and daddy don't always do best when they present a united front. Diversity in attitude and method over time, works out better. I'm allowed to fuck up, he's allowed to fuck up.

That doesn't mean whoever fucks up won't be taunted mercilessly privately...?
 
Well, do you want me to tell you the truth or sugarcoat it and couch it in fawning, "Oh, I love my Master; he is never wrong, and I would never do anything to disrespect him," terms? That's what I thought. ;)

In my relationship, B. is, first, one of my best friends. Yes, he is my Master/Owner/whatever, but he's always made it clear that we're friends (well, really more than friends, but you get the idea) first and foremost. That is what is going to color this response.

Friends don't let friends get into bad situations like that if they can help it. My first concern is not going to be whether Master is right or if it's my place to step in and interfere. My first concern is going to be getting him away from an ugly and potentially dangerous situation. Yes, he's a big man and could hold his own in a fair fight, but that's not the point. I still would want to get him as far away from that situation as possible.

So, yes, I would speak up. I'd try to be tactful at first, just because I prefer not to piss anybody off if I can help it. That's just my nature. If he wouldn't listen to reason--i.e., "This isn't worth it. Please, let's just go home. I don't want you to get hurt or go to jail."--, I would not be above trying to anger him enough to forget the other altercation. I can be a bitch when necessary, and I would do it in a heartbeat in that situation if I had to. If I can draw his attention away from it, even if he goes home and takes his anger out on me, that's fine. He's safe, and that's all I'd be worried about.

There are certain situations in which life supersedes The Dynamic. That is one of those situations. If B. ended up hurt, arrested, or killed (or any combination of those three), just because I didn't think it was "my place" to speak up, I would never forgive myself. Once his head cleared, he would thank me, too. My love for him and my need to protect him at all costs would certainly come before any notion that I needed to be "submissive" in a situation that could harm or end my Master's health, freedom, or life.
 
3113 said:
This is very much what I was wondering about. I suspect that the answers will be split down the middle between "my Dom right or wrong," and "subs don't let Doms drive drunk" (i.e., if the D's gonna harm him/herself it's a sub's duty to save them even if it involves stepping out of line). Obviously, the details of the situation would make a difference.

i think it also comes down to "pride in Ownership" and "pride in being Owned." A Dom corrects negative behavior in their sub and guides them on the right path (one would hope) because the Dom wants what is best for them, AND because the sub is a reflection of the Dom. As a sub, if i am not proud of who owns me, then what is the point? And truthfully, if my Dom ever engaged in physical violence, i would lose respect for my Dom and at that point "submission" would be a pointless exercise. (i'm not talking about a Dom defending me, himself, or someone else...i'm thinking in the context of bar fights, and just starting trouble in general.)
 
CutieMouse said:
If he were having a discussion with someone else, and I was there and felt he were seriously in the wrong, I'd say something as unobtrusively as possible (because I am expected to speak my mind if I wish to), but I dislike calling people out in front of their peers... then again he's not the sort who gets into heated arguments, so I can't imagine him getting into a situation I'd have to help him get out of, so it's a bit of a moot point. LOL
Well, although I am asking everyone for their personal take on this--and that's certainly very much what I want--leave us remember that our couple here is "hypothetical." ;) So you need to imagine a couple where the Dom is likely to get into this situation.

That said, your take on this is really helpful. I'm asking this question because I'm not in such a relationship myself and I know I'm missing things I need to consider. The point about the Dom being 99% right is a very important one. A sub is going to be drawn to someone who is right most of the time and able to direct the relationship in a good direction. Given that, even a sub encouraged to speak their mind might view a Dom in an argument as likely to be right and, therefore, decide to stay out of it. As you point out, from the sub's p.o.v., the odds are in favor of the Dom being right.
 
3113 said:
Well, although I am asking everyone for their personal take on this--and that's certainly very much what I want--leave us remember that our couple here is "hypothetical." ;) So you need to imagine a couple where the Dom is likely to get into this situation.

That said, your take on this is really helpful. I'm asking this question because I'm not in such a relationship myself and I know I'm missing things I need to consider. The point about the Dom being 99% right is a very important one. A sub is going to be drawn to someone who is right most of the time and able to direct the relationship in a good direction. Given that, even a sub encouraged to speak their mind might view a Dom in an argument as likely to be right and, therefore, decide to stay out of it. As you point out, from the sub's p.o.v., the odds are in favor of the Dom being right.

Oh no there are things I feel passionately about that he's totally wrong on, 100% (and I've told him so). He's lucky they are subjects that don't usually come up in casual conversation/social settings, but I'd roast his ass regardless of our "dynamic" - even if it means Life being a little less pleasant than usual, at a later time. (and he likes that about me, too... LOL)

I know the discussion is all theory, but IMO it is important to realize that the D/s dynamic is a relationship... which means the fictional couple may be just as likely to support one another in a similar manner as a "vanilla" couple. For some couples that would mean zipping one's lip and stepping aside; for others it would mean speaking up in hopes of diffusing the situation. IMO, it boils down more to personality types/how the individuals deal with conflict, than anything else...
 
BiBunny said:
There are certain situations in which life supersedes The Dynamic. That is one of those situations. If B. ended up hurt, arrested, or killed (or any combination of those three), just because I didn't think it was "my place" to speak up, I would never forgive myself. Once his head cleared, he would thank me, too. My love for him and my need to protect him at all costs would certainly come before any notion that I needed to be "submissive" in a situation that could harm or end my Master's health, freedom, or life.
That's a very powerful answer; thanks for the reality check, it's very much what I was looking for.
 
BiBunny said:
Well, do you want me to tell you the truth or sugarcoat it and couch it in fawning, "Oh, I love my Master; he is never wrong, and I would never do anything to disrespect him," terms? That's what I thought. ;)

In my relationship, B. is, first, one of my best friends. Yes, he is my Master/Owner/whatever, but he's always made it clear that we're friends (well, really more than friends, but you get the idea) first and foremost. That is what is going to color this response.

Friends don't let friends get into bad situations like that if they can help it. My first concern is not going to be whether Master is right or if it's my place to step in and interfere. My first concern is going to be getting him away from an ugly and potentially dangerous situation. Yes, he's a big man and could hold his own in a fair fight, but that's not the point. I still would want to get him as far away from that situation as possible.

So, yes, I would speak up. I'd try to be tactful at first, just because I prefer not to piss anybody off if I can help it. That's just my nature. If he wouldn't listen to reason--i.e., "This isn't worth it. Please, let's just go home. I don't want you to get hurt or go to jail."--, I would not be above trying to anger him enough to forget the other altercation. I can be a bitch when necessary, and I would do it in a heartbeat in that situation if I had to. If I can draw his attention away from it, even if he goes home and takes his anger out on me, that's fine. He's safe, and that's all I'd be worried about.

There are certain situations in which life supersedes The Dynamic. That is one of those situations. If B. ended up hurt, arrested, or killed (or any combination of those three), just because I didn't think it was "my place" to speak up, I would never forgive myself. Once his head cleared, he would thank me, too. My love for him and my need to protect him at all costs would certainly come before any notion that I needed to be "submissive" in a situation that could harm or end my Master's health, freedom, or life.


if one's Master has made crystal clear to them that it is not their place to protect, fight, disrespect, etc., then why is it wrong to obey such demands regardless of circumstance? now when i first read the OP i wasn't thinking of life or death situations, just your typical rowdy argument or fisticuffs. however even in the very worst case scenario, of someone else threatening my Master's life, the best thing i can do for him is to be there giving him my unconditional love and support and following his will to the very end, not making futile attempts to take down some madman.

tho i understand your dynamic is not that of TPE or M/s, i didn't like the way you have put down those of us who do live with such dynamics, and truly believe that the Master's will is law, period.
 
3113 said:
That's a very powerful answer; thanks for the reality check, it's very much what I was looking for.

You're welcome. :D Though, like Cutie said, it's likely a moot point because B.'s not the kind of person to go around starting trouble "just because." We both avoid conflict at most any cost, so it's hard to even imagine being in that situation. If it happened somehow, though, I'd do my best to interfere, and I know that if I ever found myself in something similar, he'd do the same for me.
 
ownedsubgal said:
if one's Master has made crystal clear to them that it is not their place to protect, fight, disrespect, etc., then why is it wrong to obey such demands regardless of circumstance? now when i first read the OP i wasn't thinking of life or death situations, just your typical rowdy argument or fisticuffs. however even in the very worst case scenario, of someone else threatening my Master's life, the best thing i can do for him is to be there giving him my unconditional love and support and following his will to the very end, not making futile attempts to take down some madman.

tho i understand your dynamic is not that of TPE or M/s, i didn't like the way you have put down those of us who do live with such dynamics, and truly believe that the Master's will is law, period.

Ok, I totally didn't mean it the way you took it, and I'm sorry that I offended you. It doesn't matter to me what you and your Master do; I was just speaking on it from the point of view of my relationship. He would want me to interfere because, like I said, we've always said that we are friends and lovers before anything else (friends, even, before lovers). I protect those I care about. Simple as that.

Just because I do not live with my Master or feel as if I should "keep my place" at all times does not mean that my view is invalid, either. I apologize that my relationship does not fit your world view, but I suppose our ways of caring for our Masters differ greatly, which is fine, too. I still say that I could not forgive myself if something happened to him simply because I thought it was my place to stand by and shut the fuck up,
 
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