Does the US want tourists?

[oggbashan]

At present all tourists visiting the US have to answer a list of questions before they board the plane. The answers are sent to US immigration who may refuse entry.

On arrival two fingerprints are taken from each visitor. In future it will be all ten fingerprints and those fingerprints will be held in the FBI's database.

Some of my friends and colleagues have already decided that they will take their holidays anywhere but the US because the entry procedures are so erratic and insulting. Anyone can be refused entry and have a substantial financial loss as well as a lost holiday.

Locally our small airport is offering holidays with weekly flights direct from the local airport to Virginia. The holidays start this Spring. They have been on offer since September. There have been NO bookings, none. The attraction of our local airport is ample cheap parking, a short uncongested travel time, a short walk (50 yards) from check-in to the aircraft and no lost baggage ever. But no one wants to go to Virginia.

If the US tourist industry is suffering, it isn't because of 9/11. It's because the US government treats all visitors as suspected terrorists.

My next holiday will be in Europe. Once across the Channel I can put my passport in my pocket and leave it there.

Og

 

[kendo1]

Me too.
We'll be going to France early on, and Italy later in the year.

 

[alltherage]

We have the isolationist flavor to our history which has only been reinforced since 9/11. More important than tourists not coming are the students who won't come. The US has been filing its professional gaps with immigrants for many years and many of these folks came here through Universities. In time their absence will hurt our economy.

 

[rgraham666]

The rest of the world shouldn't feel put upon.

Every one who isn't an important member of the Republican Party is regarded as a possible terrorist.

 

[alltherage]

The rest of the world shouldn't feel put upon.

Every one who isn't an important member of the Republican Party is regarded as a possible terrorist.

Are there any? The powers that be have to keep fear alive as a political strategy.

 

[rgraham666]

Are there any? The powers that be have to keep fear alive as a political strategy.

If you're allowed in the Oval Office you're off the list.

Except for the Secret Service. I believe they are no longer allowed to carry loaded weapons in the President's presence.

 

[alltherage]

If you're allowed in the Oval Office you're off the list.

Except for the Secret Service. I believe they are no longer allowed to carry loaded weapons in the President's presence.

They can't harm him Darth Vader is next in line.

 

[minsue]

The vast majority of tourists in the US are US citizens. Sure, it'd be nice to get some money from furr-inurs, too, but not totally necessary.

 

[starrkers]

Except for the Secret Service. I believe they are no longer allowed to carry loaded weapons in the President's presence.

Pity.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

The vast majority of tourists in the US are US citizens. Sure, it'd be nice to get some money from furr-inurs, too, but not totally necessary.

And we only want furr-inurs that speak English.

 

[minsue]

And we only want furr-inurs that speak English.

No, we want furriners that speak American, Ducky Dolly. Not English.

 

[oggbashan]

The vast majority of tourists in the US are US citizens. Sure, it'd be nice to get some money from furr-inurs, too, but not totally necessary.

I think you are being sarcastic, but the US economy is so unbalanced compared with the rest of the world that they need every pound, Euro, yen and whatever they can get.

Deterring foreign tourists is bad for the US Treasury.

Og

 

[minsue]

I think you are being sarcastic, but the US economy is so unbalanced compared with the rest of the world that they need every pound, Euro, yen and whatever they can get.

Deterring foreign tourists is bad for the US Treasury.

Og

I thought that's what Iraqi oil was for

 

[Just-Legal]

May 2005 I went to see a friend in Oklahoma. I was quizzed as to:
Why I was flying via Chicago (my two answers of, the airport that went via O'Hare was closer to home and the flight was cheaper didn't net good response),
Why I was coming to the US (A holiday with a friend was not considered extensive enough, replying that I had to get away from my partner and sister before they drove me crazy too extensive),
Who I was staying with (My friend answer ended up being a list of her, her close and extended family, and their occupations) and
What I intended to do while there (I said sleep. They said that can't be all. I said, with my job, wanna bet?).

After this (and having been stood in a queue for an hour and a half with a two and a half hour time gap for connecting flight) they proceeded to phone my "sponsor". Then my sponsor's employer. Then my sponsor's husband. Then HIS employer. So they phoned a legal secretary, a lawyer, a parole officer, and the cheif parole officer for the area in which they live.

Then the official told me I might not be allowed entry. I asked why. He said that he couldn't disclose that but he would have to speak to his superior. By this point I'm about <this> close to tears, I'm stressed, and if I'm going to make my connection, I have about half an hour.

His supervisor turns up, reads through my info, asks the guy who'd been interviewing me a few questions, looks me up and down (I'm refusing to cry or shout but I looked like shit) then lets me through.

I could have killed the pair of them. I <just> made my connection and I am greatful to the baggage handlers at O'Hare who SOMEHOW made sure my bags made the plane (had to pick them up from customs straight after Immigration at O'Hare and take them through customs onto another baggage wheel).

I am never, EVER doing that again on my own.

 

[oggbashan]

I thought that's what Iraqi oil was for

Oil is bought and sold in dollars.

The dollar is so weak against the pound and the euro that our energy companies are rubbing their hands in glee. They buy in dollars and get paid in pounds which buy more dollars than they used to.

Traditionally, a strong pound and a weak dollar is an incentive to visit the US as a tourist because your money goes further. Not any more. EuroDisney is picking up trade from the UK that used to go to Disney Florida. Brits are travelling further around the world on holiday but one trip to the US is enough.

Og

 

[Just-Legal]

Oil is bought and sold in dollars.

The dollar is so weak against the pound and the euro that our energy companies are rubbing their hands in glee. They buy in dollars and get paid in pounds which buy more dollars than they used to.

Traditionally, a strong pound and a weak dollar is an incentive to visit the US as a tourist because your money goes further. Not any more. EuroDisney is picking up trade from the UK that used to go to Disney Florida. Brits are travelling further around the world on holiday but one trip to the US is enough.

Og

The real shame is, I really do want to go back, but in my current mental state I couldn't cope with it all, at least on my own, and Mark isn't that keen on "Yankeeland" as he calls it.

 

[minsue]

J-L, after the 30 + minute grilling I got the first time I arrived at Heathrow, I so empathize with your story. Standing there being asked everything under the sun, and some unbelievably stupid questions, while trying to keep yourself under control after such a long flight is horrible.

 

[oggbashan]

All three of my daughters visited the US in 2006 at different times.

It made a difference that they were visiting people living at the 'right' addresses in Boston and Kentucky, their sponsors were waiting at the airports in late model expensive cars, and their professions/qualifications are acceptable but even so they found US immigration a very unpleasant experience.

As tourists without the sponsors? They prefer Canada.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

J-L, after the 30 + minute grilling I got the first time I arrived at Heathrow, I so empathize with your story. Standing there being asked everything under the sun, and some unbelievably stupid questions, while trying to keep yourself under control after such a long flight is horrible.

What did you expect? You came to pinch one of our National Treasures.

Of course they were suspicious. They remember a Mrs Simpson...

Og

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I think you are being sarcastic, but the US economy is so unbalanced compared with the rest of the world that they need every pound, Euro, yen and whatever they can get.

Og

Actually, that's not really the case, and the common understanding of the meaning of "merchandise trade deficits," "current account balances" and the like is woefully off kilter with reality. Essentially, it only looks at one side of the ledger, and is based on long-disproven mercantilist models.

Question: When the U.S. buys more stuff from another country than it sells, and dollars pile up in that country, what does it do with those dollars?

Answer: Invests them in the U.S., which after all is the most stable and wealthy nation and economy in the world, and the only place you can invest or spend large quantities U.S. dollars. The investment may be in the form of bonds and stocks, or perhaps direct ownership of productive assets, like Japanese car factories here. This has been going on for 200 years. The notion that China or some other country is going to all of a sudden seek to sell all those assets - taking a huge bath in the process - lacks any basis in reality.

It's actually very complex and I've only scratched the surface, but suffice to say that the doomsayers have been trotting out the same bogeymen for generations, yet the doom never happens. It's not because the day of reckoning has been postponed, but because their analysis is flawed and incomplete. Demographic factors involving the average age of different populations are poised to add more complexities, and more win-win opportunities for both the U.S. and its trading partners.

Re. the subject of the thread? The U.S. policy is boneheaded and insulting indeed. It's my hope that this first panic-phase of the response to 9/11 will play out in time and yeild to much more saavy and sophisticated protocols for such things, but in the meantime this nation is not doing itself any favors in this area.

 

[minsue]

What did you expect? You came to pinch one of our National Treasures.

Of course they were suspicious. They remember a Mrs Simpson...

Og

She's most certainly a treasure.

The question I found most inane -

Immigration - How much money do you have on you?
Me - On me? About $4. (I don't like to travel with cash on me.)
Immigration - Well, what are you going to do for money while you're here? (Now with a very suspicious and disapproving look on her face.)
Me - An ATM? (With a very confused look on my own face.)

This led to multiple questions about how many bank accounts I had and exactly how much money I had in each of them.

I can understand a bit of why they were so suspicious. I didn't have a return ticket because we weren't positive of the date we were coming back, but when Mats goes to the States they never ask to see her ticket and after 12 hours of travelling (without cigarettes and with very little sleep, of course) it was all I could do to keep from snapping, "none of your fucking business!" to the increasingly intrusive questions. The second time I came, with a return ticket that time, wasn't much better.

Mats may get fingerprinted and photographed when we go to the States, but she's not asked nearly so many questions as I was the two times coming over here without having a visa ahead of time. I think I'll take the prints and photos over the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Misty_Morning]

Well, I am gonna put my 2 cents in here, or rather my 1.5 cents.

It is rather unfortunate that some feel put upon when coming to the US.

It is sad that you feel that it has something to do with political parties currently in office. It does not!

From my own professional experience I must say I do not believe these measure are extreme. We ALL are currently living in a time where the guy next to you could potentially be the one who wants to waste you and as many other people that he can.

Here in this forum most of us are idealists.

This is not reality.

So, if you put up with all the "bullshit" you are in fact taking a small step to ensure your safety while you are here. (Maybe I should say you are taking a small step in ensuring your safe arrival to this country...cuz once you're here....sometimes you take your life in your own hands.)

Please try to understand that there exists many, many people in this country who have to deal with all types of security issues on a daily basis. I'm talking about all the little things that never get reported but most definately could be the leading story of the 5 o'clock news for several days if not weeks if they had not been caught.

Until you have had the priviledge of being informed of what the vast majority never knows what transpirers EVERY DAY, just take a second and think.....

I know this isn't much, but believe me.....I know...and it is very scary, indeed...

Just saying......and I wish I could say more....

 

[R. Richard]

At present all tourists visiting the US have to answer a list of questions before they board the plane. The answers are sent to US immigration who may refuse entry.

On arrival two fingerprints are taken from each visitor. In future it will be all ten fingerprints and those fingerprints will be held in the FBI's database.

My next holiday will be in Europe. Once across the Channel I can put my passport in my pocket and leave it there.

Og

Og:
I can understand your frustration. However, you must realize that the US got a severe wake up call on 9/11.

As to England. I was detained at Heathrow like a common criminal and not even allowed to get off the plane for quite some time. When I was allowed off the plane, I was escorted [frogmarched] by soldiers [at least I didn't have to put up with scumbags.] Don't tell me it wasn't because I didn't have a passport, I had three of them. [If there was some problem with the US, one of the passports was from Mexico and one from Honduras.] I was then put aboard a flight to the US with a VERY surly warning to never return. [I suspect that the problem(s) originated with an unfortunate incident I had with the Spanish Guardia Civil. Og, those people don't, in general, even speak English and they even tried to invade England. Yet the English authorities. without a shred of evidence detained me and even searched my bag.]

Before you criticize the US, you might have a conversation with your own people at Heathrow.

JMHO.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Courage. January 20, 2000, is only 743 days away--and counting.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Courage. January 20, 2008, is only 743 days away--and counting.

Rumple Foreskin

Don't hold your breath. If a Dem gets in she'll be all eager to show that she's just as tough on terrorists and middle-aged British lesbians as any Republican. If anything the policies will get even dumber.

I think the future lies in a combination of pre-screening and biometric ID. The future is here is pilot programs, and they will expand. The current regime is a system for bothering people, not for making the nation and airplanes secure. It's purpose is to allow politicians and bureaucrats to demonstrate that they're "doing something."

Hey, I didn't want a gargantuan government. This is the kind of thing you get whoever is in charge of such a thing - it's the nature of the beast. Efforts to 'reform" it are like squeezing a balloon - you focus on one area, and the nonsense expands in another.