Does the Left want US to loose in Iraq?

[Beco]

I think the far left or the Democrats preface every speech with, " Killing Zarqawi was a good thing but….., blah blah blah". I don’t get the impression they actually mean it, although I don’t think they wish this war to get any worse.

The problem as I see it is that the Democrats have yet to lay out a clear and concise plan on how to stop terrorism (if im wrong, please provide me with articles of their clear intentions)

While many might not agree with invading Iraq, one man, the President, made a decision on how terrorism should be fought. I guess he figured he would take it to their “ backyard” rather than do battle here in the United States. Only history will tell if he made the right decision.

 

[busybody..]

You'll forgive me if I don't believe a word that comes from the IDF.

But you do believe what the Palis say?

 

[busybody..]

FALSE OR DECEPTIVE INTELLIGENCE BRIEFINGS TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
…"

Sorry, I dont believe anything Blix or El Baradai say!

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=404739

Further, there is a difference between MISTAKES and bad INTEL and a LIE

A lie is when you KNOW a fact and say the opposite!

 

[busybody..]

Wasnt Blix the one who told us all, Iraq was NOT working on NUKES

and six minutes later we find they were

 

[busybody..]

You can say they were mistaken after the fact

But you cant say they KNEW they were telling a LIE

After all, ClitMan and Algore said the EXACT same thing during their time in office

look at what was said in 98 by them

Did they lie as well or were they also getting bad intel

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Sorry, I dont believe anything Blix or El Baradai say!

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=404739

Further, there is a difference between MISTAKES and bad INTEL and a LIE

A lie is when you KNOW a fact and say the opposite!

Why believe Hans Blix and the IAEA inspectors, they were just THERE and stuff, they can't possibly know anything. Again, discount anything that disagrees with your notion of what is true.

Yes, there is a difference between bad intel, and knowingly releasing intelligence you KNOW is bad. RE: Niger yellow cake uranium load of shit.

 

[wazhazhe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 calls for the president to designate opposition groups in Iraq, to receive up to $97 million in support. No where in this act is there a provision for an invasion of Iraq.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Wasnt Blix the one who told us all, Iraq was NOT working on NUKES

and six minutes later we find they were

Really? Iraq had a nuclear weapons program under the noses of the IAEA? Just where did you get that tidbit of information? I'm intrigued. Oh, and since you won't unless asked and sometimes even then won't, please cite your source.

 

[busybody..]

Why believe Hans Blix and the IAEA inspectors, they were just THERE and stuff, they can't possibly know anything. Again, discount anything that disagrees with your notion of what is true.

Yes, there is a difference between bad intel, and knowingly releasing intelligence you KNOW is bad. RE: Niger yellow cake uranium load of shit.

Who said ANYTHING about Niger?

I dont recall NIGER ever brought up by the President, do you?

Show me!

 

[wazhazhe]

I think the far left or the Democrats preface every speech with, " Killing Zarqawi was a good thing but….., blah blah blah". I don’t get the impression they actually mean it, although I don’t think they wish this war to get any worse.

The problem as I see it is that the Democrats have yet to lay out a clear and concise plan on how to stop terrorism (if im wrong, please provide me with articles of their clear intentions)

While many might not agree with invading Iraq, one man, the President, made a decision on how terrorism should be fought. I guess he figured he would take it to their “ backyard” rather than do battle here in the United States. Only history will tell if he made the right decision.

No, the problem is the present administration has no effective plan to stop terrorism. After 9/11, the Bush administration drove Al Qaeda into Pakistan. Since Pakistan is our "ally" Bush could not continue to pursue the man and the organization behind 9/11.

The Bush administration's answer was to invade a country that had no connection with 9/11 and overthrow the government, thereby creating a haven for terrorists. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to the US invasion but they certainly are now.

And another thing; the far left and the Democratic Party are not the same. Read any publication of the far left and you will see criticism of both parties. The far left has no love for democrats.

 

[busybody..]

So now you're convinced that human activities are causing global warming? I've bombarded you with more facts than you could possibly absorb into that pinhead of yours. I wanna see you admit that it is real, is a problem, and is caused by human activity.

Terrorist

Read this

Its CYCLICAL

and the CRAZIES LIE!


One of the big selling points of Al Gore's alarmism is worldwide glacier retreat. "Everywhere in the world the story is the same," he says, "including in the Andes in South America." He shows a picture of the Qori Kalis glacier in Peru, showing undeniable retreat in the past fifteen years (see p. 52-3 of the book version of An Inconvenient Truth).

Inconveniently, it seems that Andean glaciers have retreated and advanced many times in recent history (in geological terms). A new peer-reviewed paper by Polissar et al even suggests that the glaciers disappeared completely during the holocene warm period that ended about 5000 years ago ("during most of the past 10,000 yr, glaciers were absent from all but the highest peaks in the Cordillera de Merida.") Dennis Avery has a summary here. For the more technically minded, Steve McIntyre has a detalied explanation of what this means for the "hockey stick" view that global temperature hasn't varied much over the past 1000 years here.

 

[busybody..]

Who said ANYTHING about Niger?

I dont recall NIGER ever brought up by the President, do you?

Show me!

 

[wazhazhe]

Who said ANYTHING about Niger?

I dont recall NIGER ever brought up by the President, do you?

Show me!

State the Union Address, 28 January 2003

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

This was the first statement by the Bush administration about Iraq and Niger.

 

[busybody..]

State the Union Address, 28 January 2003

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

This was the first statement by the Bush administration about Iraq and Niger.

I dont see Niger in there, do YOU?

Read the Butler Report and get back to me!

 

[busybody..]

Sean,

I know this is a LIE

But I also know the Palis are telling the truth


Jerusalem-----June 11.......An Israel Defense Forces intelligence officer has confirmed that the explosion that killed eight Palestinians on Friday, was caused by a stockpile of Hamas explosives.

"Shortly after we stopped defensive firing at Hamas rocket launch pads which were deployed behind Palestinian human shields, members of Hamas scrambled to fire more rockets at our positions," said Col. M. "We have eyes on every meter of Gaza, from the sky, from the ground and from the sea. One of their rocket tripods collapsed inadvertently setting off an explosion of a stockpile of Qassam rockets. The Palestinians killed their own children. And this was not the first time."

Hamas terrorists fired rockets and mortar bombs from a crowded Gaza beach at southern Israel. Some of the rockets fell near the Israel city of Ashkelon. Some 17 rockets were fired between Saturday and Sunday morning. A man at a school in the Israel town of Sderot was wounded, Israel officials said.

Israel Maj.-Gen. Yoav Galant said today that the Israel Defense Forces has additional evidence that it wasn't Israel artillery that hit the beach in Gaza. Galant, who commands Israel's southern command, said Israel stopped firing 15 minutes before the explosion. It's all on secure videotape from both sides of the conflict. Israel Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he was sorry about the deaths, which included three children.

Hamas's military branch had been responsible for dozens of suicide terror bomb attacks on Israelis since the second Palestinian uprising began in 2000. But until Saturday, Hamas had been honoring an informal ceasefire forged in February 2005 by Ariel Sharon, then Israel prime minister, and Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority.

The truce had been broken on occasion by other Palestinian terror groups, such as Islamic Jihad, and by Israeli forces, who said they were acting in retaliation.

Galant, warned that Palestinian terrorists "should expect a serious blow" since Hamas had ended its ceasefire. As the violence flared, Abbas was trying to convince Hamas to back his plan to hold a referendum on establishing a Palestinian state. The plan implicitly recognizes Israel's right to exist, which Hamas has so far refused to do despite tremendous international pressure, including the halting of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinian Authority from the European Union, the United States and others. Hamas wrestled control of the Palestinian Authority from Abbas's Fatah party in a January election, but Abbas — who was elected separately as president — still retains much power.

Abbas argued that the referendum should be held on July 26, while Hamas leaders said the vote should be delayed because of the beach attack.

Palestinian terrorists have been using their own civilian population as human shields for many years. An even more disturbing trend is that there is increasing evidence that "Palestinians" are killing "Palestinians" not only for collaboration with Israel (which could mean as little as buying and selling an Israeli product), but also for bumping up the numbers of "martyrs" for the "Palestinian" cause.

When the current Intifada started, after Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount, a handful of Palestinian rioters were "shot in the back" as they were throwing stones at the Israeli Police. The Israel Police never gave the order to use live ammunition. If the rioters backs were towards the Temple Mount compound, from what direction did the shots come?

Jibril Rajoub, head of PA Preventive Security had led the Israeli government to believe that there would be no reaction to Likud MK Arik Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount as long as Sharon did not attempt to enter the mosque itself. Yet exactly the opposite happened. Using forensic evidence to try and trace the source of the bullets themselves would be complicated by the fact that the Israeli Government authorized the transfer of thousands of guns to the Palestinians, for use by the Palestinian Police force. “We have no problems with weaponry since we have enough guns that were given to us by Israel,” stated Abed el-Qader, Senior Tanzim Leader on March 8, 2001.

The film clip of the shooting of Al Dura, the 12 year old palestinian boy, shown worldwide clearly shows firing coming from someone who stood next to the Palestinian camera man Talal Abu Rahma.

A BBC editor was killed by Hisbollah mortar fire, as the Israel troops were retreating from Lebanon, was blamed on Israel. The Christian German doctor from Beit Jalla who was asked to leave his house at 11:30 at night by Palestinian Paramedics, only to be gunned down 50 yards from his front door with bullet holes riddling the wall behind him that could not have come from an Israeli helicopter.

But perhaps the worst example of Palestinians killing Palestinians is when they teach their children that this is the norm. Mohammed al-Dura, the 12-year-old Palestinian youth whose shooting death made him the poster boy of the "Intifada," was courtesy of Palestinian television spoke to an ever-angrier generation of Arab youths from beyond the grave, beckoning to them from paradise to become terrorists and suicide bombers – in a word, martyrs.

According to Itamar Marcus of Palestinian Media Watch, "examination of the TV clips aired extensively on PA [Palestinian Authority] television" reveals "incessant broadcasting" of programming that "extols and glorifies the dead and especially their willingness to be killed, and portrays their afterlife as idyllic." One particular film, he says, "openly and explicitly tells the children to seek death by portraying the most famous child 'Martyr,' Muhammad al-Dura, calling to other children to join him, in his idyllic afterlife."

Israel Defence Minister Amir Peretz said while on a visit to the 60-year-old Israel man seriously wounded by a rocket that Israel would make "painful" responses unless the rocket fire stopped. Peretz told the Israeli cabinet earlier that Israel would "act against all who are involved in terror, including Hamas members."

Many Israelis are doing themselves a gross disservice, and playing into the hands of the Palestinians, by presuming that an Israeli shell caused the deaths of seven Palestinian civilians Friday in Gaza, Prime Minster Ehud Olmert's Foreign media advisor Ra'anan Gissin said Sunday. "We are repeating the same mistakes of the past in taking responsibility when there are other possibilities about who is responsible," Gissin said. He said that Friday's tragedy on the Gaza beach may indeed be similar to the shooting of Mohammed al-Dura in 2000, the "Jenin Massacre" in 2002, and the killing of 21 people at the Jabaliya refugee camp last September.

While the Palestinians originally pinned the blame for all these incidents on Israel, it has since turned out that al-Dura may have been killed by Palestinians, that there was no "Jenin massacre," and that the deaths in Jabaliya were caused when Hamas activists "mishandled" explosives at a mass rally.

The Israel Colonel who confirmed that a Hamas explosives stockpile killed innocent Palestine children on a Gaza beach, added: "It should be noted that the Hamas rockets which killed those kids came from Iran. For many in Palestine, Iran and Syria, those children are now merely good "martyrs" and serve as blood food for the Islam terror propaganda machine."

 

[busybody..]

Read thru this all and tell me there were NO WMD's there


https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=17826293&posted=1#post17826293

 

[wazhazhe]

I dont see Niger in there, do YOU?

Read the Butler Report and get back to me!

Nuclear expert Norman Dombey has pointed out that the information relied upon by the Butler Review on the Niger issue was incomplete; as he noted, "The Butler report says the claim was credible because an Iraqi diplomat visited Niger in 1999, and almost three-quarters of Niger's exports were uranium. But this is irrelevant, since France controls Niger's uranium mines."(Independent, 25 July 2004).

And when asked by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to discuss the conclusions of British intelligence, Deputy Director of Central Intelligence John McLaughlin stated, "The one thing where I think they stretched a little bit beyond where we would stretch is on the points about Iraq seeking uranium from various African locations. We've looked at those reports and we don't think they are very credible."

 

[busybody..]

E. The National Intelligence Estimate
( ) At the same time DELETED, the IC was preparing the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction. In mid-September 2002, in both hearings and in letters, Members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) requested that the CIA. publish an NIE on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs. Committee Members expressed concerns that they would be expected to vote on an Iraq Resolution shortly and had no NIE on which to base their vote.

(U) On September 12, 2002, the DCI officially directed the National Intelligence Officer (NIO) for Strategic and Nuclear Programs to begin to draft an NIE. The National Intelligence Council (NIC) staff drew the discussion of nuclear reconstitution for the draft NIE largely from an August 2002 CIA assessment and a September 2002 DIA assessment, Iraq's Reemerging Nuclear Weapons Programs. The NIO sent a draft of the entire NIE to IC analysts on September 23, 2002 for coordination and comments and held an interagency coordination meeting on September 25, 2002 to discuss the draft and work out any changes.


(U) Regarding uranium from Africa, the language of the NIE said:
Iraq has about 550 metric tons of yellowcake and low enriched uranium at Tuwaitha, which is inspected annually by the IAEA. Iraq also began vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake; acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons.


A foreign government service reported that as of early 2001, Niger planned to send several tons of "pure uranium" (probably yellowcake) to Iraq. As of early 2001, Niger and Iraq reportedly were still working out arrangements for this deal, which could be for up to 500 tons of yellowcake. We do not know the status of this arrangement.

Reports indicate Iraq has also sought uranium ore from Somalia and possibly the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
We cannot confirm whether Iraq succeeded in acquiring uranium ore and/or yellowcake from these sources.

(U) At the NIE coordination meeting, the only analyst who voiced disagreement with the uranium section was an INR analyst. Several analysts from other agencies told Committee staff that they did not recall even discussing the uranium reporting at the meeting. All of the analysts said that the bulk of the time at the meeting was spent debating other issues such as the aluminum tubes, time lines for weapons designs, and procurement of magnets and other dual use items. CIA, DIA and DOE analysts all said that at the time the NIE was written, they agreed with the NIE assessment that Iraq was attempting to procure uranium from Africa. Some analysts said, in retrospect, the language should have been more qualified than it was, but they generally agreed with the text.

(U) The uranium text was included only in the body of the NEE, not in the key judgments section because the interagency consensus was that Iraq's efforts to acquire uranium were not key to the argument that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program. According to the NIO, the key judgments were drawn from a CIA paper which only highlighted the acquisition of aluminum tubes as the reason Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program. The NIO said that at the NIE coordination meeting, analysts added other reasons they believed Iraq was reconstituting, such as acquiring magnets, machine tools, and balancing machines, and reestablishing Iraq's nuclear scientists cadre. When someone, the NIO was not sure who,7 suggested that the uranium information be included as another sign of reconstitution, the INR Iraq nuclear analyst spoke up and said that he did not agree with the uranium reporting and that INR would be including text indicating their disagreement in their footnote on nuclear reconstitution. The NIO said he did not recall anyone else at the coordination meeting who disagreed with the uranium text, but also did not recall anyone really supporting including the uranium issue as part of the judgment that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program, so he suggested that the uranium information did not need to part of the key judgments. He told Committee staff he suggested that "We'll leave it in the paper for completeness. Nobody can say we didn't connect the dots. But we don't have to put that dot in the key judgments."

(U) Because INR disagreed with much of the nuclear section of the NIE, it decided to convey its alternative views in text boxes, rather than object to every point throughout the NIE. INR prepared two separate boxes, one for the key judgments section and a two page box for the body of the nuclear section, which included a sentence which stated that "the claims of Iraqi pursuit of natural uranium in Africa are, in INR's assessment, highly dubious."

(U) While formatting the final version of the NIE, the NIC staff decided to separate the entire aluminum tubes discussion into a separate annex that laid out each agency's position. When this formatting change was made, a text box INR had previously submitted for the body of the NIE was split into a text box on reconstitution and a text box on the aluminum tubes. Both the NIO for Strategic and Nuclear Programs and the INR's senior WMD analyst told Committee staff that INR's dissent on the uranium reporting was inadvertently separated from the reconstitution section and included in the aluminum tubes box in the annex of the NIE. The NIC staff disseminated a draft of the NIE in which those changes were made on September 26, 2002 for coordination. An e-mail on September 30, 2002 indicates that INR made some further edits to their text boxes, but did not change the placement of their dissent on the uranium reporting. INR analysts told Committee staff they did not notice that the uranium dissent was included in the aluminum tube section.

( ) On October 1, 2002, in preparation for an SSCI hearing on the NIE the following day, a CIA NESA analyst prepared responses to questions anticipated from SSCI Members. The WINPAC Iraq nuclear analyst sent the NESA analyst comments for inclusion PARAGRAPH DELETED

(U) On October 1, 2002, the NIC published the NIE on Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction. The language on Iraq's efforts to acquire uranium from Africa appeared as it did in the draft version and INR's position that "claims of Iraqi pursuit of natural uranium in Africa are highly dubious" was included in a text box, separated by about 60 pages from the discussion of the uranium issue.

(U) On October 2, 2002, the Deputy DCI testified before the SSCI. Senator Jon Kyl asked the Deputy DCI whether he had read the British white paper and whether he disagreed with anything in the report. The Deputy DCI testified that "the one thing where I think they stretched a little bit beyond where we would stretch is on the points about Iraq seeking uranium from various African locations. We've looked at those reports and we don't think they are very credible. It doesn't diminish our conviction that he's going for nuclear weapons, but I think they reached a little bit on that one point. Otherwise I think it's very solid."

(U) On October 4, 2002, the NIO for Strategic and Nuclear Programs testified before the SSCI. When asked by Senator Fred Thompson if there was disagreement with the British white paper, the NIO said that "they put more emphasis on the uranium acquisition in Africa than we would." He added, "there is some information on attempts and, as we said, maybe not to this committee, but in the last couple of weeks, there's a question about some of those attempts because of the control of the material in those countries. In one case the mine is completely flooded and how would they get the material. For us it's more the concern that they have uranium in-country now. It's under inspection. It's under control of the IAEA - the International Atomic Energy Agency - but they only inspect it once a year." The NIO told Committee staff that he was speaking as an IC representative and was representing INR's known view on the issue. He said at the time of his remarks, he did not believe that the CIA had any problem with the credibility of the reporting, but said the CIA may have believed that the uranium information should not be included in an unclassified white paper.

(U) Also, on October 4, 2002, CIA published an unclassified White Paper, Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs. The NIO for NESA started work on the white paper in the spring of 2002, well before efforts began on the classified NIE. A CIA NESA analyst drafted the body of the White Paper and did not include text on Iraqi attempts to acquire uranium from Africa.

(U) In October 2002, CIA's NESA published a classified Iraq handbook as a repository of reference material that policymakers, intelligence officers, and military personnel could easily access. In the section on Iraq's nuclear program NESA wrote, "Iraq may be trying to acquire 500 tons of uranium - enough for 50 nuclear devices after processing - from Niger."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

footnotes

7 Committee staff interviewed all of the analysts involved in coordinating the nuclear portion of the NIE and none could recall who suggested that Iraq's interest in acquiring uranium from Africa be included in the key judgments. A DOE analysts said he could have made that suggestion, because at the time he did believe that uranium acquisitions attempts was an important sign of reconstitution, however, he could not be certain.

 

[busybody..]

so the bottom line is

Intel supported all that he said

Therefore it cant be a LIE!

 

[Sean]

Sean,

I know this is a LIE

But I also know the Palis are telling the truth


Jerusalem-----June 11.......An Israel Defense Forces intelligence officer has confirmed that the explosion that killed eight Palestinians on Friday, was caused by a stockpile of Hamas explosives.
<snip>

Care to give me a source for that?

 

[Plasmaball]

To change a dangerous dictatorship to something more peaceful and trustworthy.


protesting war cause they don't wanna see US troops dying..... yup,... course that would include any war fault for any reason and in a perfect world that would work. But as long as there are leaders in power like Hitler and Saddam and the likes with UNLIMITED sources of income..... there are gonna be wars like this.

I'm just glad it never got so far out'a hand that we had to invade the beaches of Saudi Arabia and fight our way up to Baghdad to win it.

godwin's Law. thank you, but you have to leave the thread now.

 

[Sean]

godwin's Law. thank you, but you have to leave the thread now.

LMAO!

 

[busybody..]

Care to give me a source for that?

IDF

You know, the LIARS!



I think you should believe the Pali's

 

[Sean]

IDF

You know, the LIARS!



I think you should believe the Pali's

The British courts called the IDF liars a couple of weeks ago.

 

[busybody..]

The British courts called the IDF liars a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, cause they SHOT one of your assholes

Did the British courst ever go after any of the Pali killers?

NOPE!

Fuck the British, APPEASORS, they deserve to be blown up by the Mooselimbs!