Does SM have anything to do with 'the dark side'

[Pure]

or is it all in Jerry Falwell's head.

'dark'--synonyms for the literal minded: disordered, chaotic, destructive, inordinate, corrupt, decaying, rotten, sullied, debased, wanton, won-ton, sushi

====

I didn't have the space or program for some variations, but if you endorse either of the last two choices ('suspect' or 'dark'), there are obviously two ways to go, as stupon's post below suggests:

one may say
'suspect and i approve' [or 'embrace' or 'recommend' etc] OR
'suspect and i disapprove'. [or 'avoid', 'condemn' etc. ]

similarly
'dark and i approve' (stupon's position) OR
'dark and i disapprove'

So if you care to specify, please do so!

 

[O'Mac]

I think there are those in the lifestyle who WANT to be viewed as some sort of perverted sociopaths, but to be honest- I don't find anything particularly dark about it. If practiced safely and with the consent of all parties, how exactly is it an immoral act?

 

[John Doe]

y'know I was just thinking about this the other day.

Of course it's on the Dark Side. But there's nothing wrong with that. I prefer a more well-rounded familiarity with the ways of the Force anyway.

 

[Kajira Callista]

It is not always, but can be very dark at times.
The "dark" is where the bulk of the hotness is, at least for me.

 

[SpectreT]

Time for my favorite two word answer...

It depends.

It depends on who, what, why, when and how.

Break it down into the Star Wars cliche implicit in using the phrase "Dark Side", and you've got this quote from Yoda in Empire Strikes Back:

"Anger. Fear. Aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they."

So, as it's generally practiced, nope, not of the dark side at all.

But it ain't squeaky clean, either. Nothing in our psychosexual makeup is, thank whatever face of divinity you choose to honor. Wouldn't be much fun if it were.

 

[lne_iii]

I see the "taboo" of it as the attraction.

The "darkness" of it is all in the eyes of the participants, imo.


LNE

 

[Emma_Ray_Garrett]

The "darkness" of it is all in the eyes of the participants, imo.


LNE

Agreed. It's only 'dark' if that's how its perceived. Regardless the connotations of the word sadism, simply because those who enjoy it excersise their pleasures outside the purview of 'normal' folks doesn't make it dark. It makes it more 'unknown' and 'different'.

 

[woxyroxme]

or is it all in Jerry Falwell's head.

There's nothing in Jerry Falwell's head.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I can't stand Jerry Farwell. But... I do think someone who derives pleasure from inflicting pain on another is definately in touch with their 'dark' side. I thank god for those kind of people every day. Fuck you Jerry!

 

[Softouch911]

I've always found it sort of joyful. And so does my submissive gurl ... or maybe she's just afraid I'll get the cat out.

ST

 

[Xelebes]

When you're playing with blindfolds, it tends to be quite dark.

 

[catalina_francisco]

It has a dark side, otherwise it would be that vanilla flavour we talk about so often here. Some like to deny there is anything dark about it, or that to acknowledge it means you are talking negatively or into the whole 'wouldn't this shock the pants of my friends' routine. I actually think it is very positive and proof some can face those darker storms rumbling inside without feeling there is something inherently wrong with them and their head. Exploring the darkness is not the sin, it is only when you lose all control of it and begin to act autonomously on what you want with blatent disregard for all others there should be any issue.

Catalina

 

[SirFace]

I was kinda looking forward to doing some of this (within reason) in the wide open public places (look out honey). I really dont see or feel anything dark about it at this point (as a beginner) It seems all very natural so far as long as everyone is enjoying themselves. I quess I grew up in the "if it feels good, do it" era. But I really dont feel any "darkness" about this. I almost want to run around and tell everyone about how great this is. ( I really am hooked huh)

 

[Netzach]

I voted that it's all what connotations you stick on it. SM can be done with all the silliness and innocuousness of golf or be really dark. It's what you bring with you.

 

[Lilith]

'Dark' is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Private_Label]

One could substitute the word "Guns" or "Baseball bat" and have the same response from me. It's all in how it is used. Guns can be used to commit acts of violence against others or can be used to protect others. While I don't think S&M can be called "the same" the application is similar. There are those who desire to feel pain, and there are those who desire to give pain. As long as those who are giving the pain keep it under control to the extent that the preson receiving it is enjoying the experience, I don't see anything wrong with it. It just seems wrong because we are raised to believe that when people hurt us it is an evil. Some times that is the case, but in some cases, the people involved have both consented to what is occurring. I may get squicked thinking about it, I may not be able to watch it, but I am trying to understand it.

 

[lne_iii]

Wasn't going to go here, but what Private Label said just makes me want to say it...

The "taboo"/"darkness" ...and also the draw/fun/mystery...whatever you want to call it of BDSM comes to me from a deeply ingrained need to

a) be "different"
b) defy authority...an authority that taught me to always respect everyone...to never strike females...etc.

Not saying that I truly disrespect anyone, or that I enjoy beating up women in an abusive way...

But given the right circumstances, BDSM allows me to break free from the bonds the "moral majority" have placed on myself and society as a whole.

Kind of a "Fuck YOU!" to the people who try to tell me/you how to live.

LNE

 

[O'Mac]

It has a dark side, otherwise it would be that vanilla flavour we talk about so often here. Some like to deny there is anything dark about it, or that to acknowledge it means you are talking negatively or into the whole 'wouldn't this shock the pants of my friends' routine. I actually think it is very positive and proof some can face those darker storms rumbling inside without feeling there is something inherently wrong with them and their head. Exploring the darkness is not the sin, it is only when you lose all control of it and begin to act autonomously on what you want with blatent disregard for all others there should be any issue.

That a shot across my bow there, catalina?

Seriously though, for me I think many lifestylers want to believe really hard that what they're into has some sort of deep meaning based on the more primal emotions of fear, anger, or similar. Again, it's hard to take that sort point of view seriously when both parties are in it for their mutual pleasure. I fail to see the dark side to safe and consensual BDSM.

 

[catalina_francisco]

That a shot across my bow there, catalina?

Seriously though, for me I think many lifestylers want to believe really hard that what they're into has some sort of deep meaning based on the more primal emotions of fear, anger, or similar. Again, it's hard to take that sort point of view seriously when both parties are in it for their mutual pleasure. I fail to see the dark side to safe and consensual BDSM.

No, it wasn't. The dark side IMHO comes in because of the areas we dabble in which others see as suspect or misguided. It does not mean it is, but it does make a lot of people suppress their desire to explore those areas which are often seen to be far from normal or healthy...and for many of us who play a little harder, yes, there are places we go which to even other players seem dark and dangerous. Let's face it, in the mainstream if you did half the things you do under the umbrella of BDSM, it would be considered dark, bad, abusive etc....to try and deny that IMO is niave or denial.

Mutual pleasure has nothing to do with whether it is dark or not for me, nor do I identify with your primal desires theory. I just am living it because it is who I am and after a long life of dissatisfaction lurking in the wings of every vanilla encounter no matter how adventurous or kinky they were, I found what it was that was missing for me personally, irrespective of whether anyone other than my partner knew or not. I can't even say it has to do with making sure other people know or see us for who we are as we live a very private and secluded life, no parties, no clubs, no lifestyle shows, workshops and festivals, just 24/7 between ourselves in our own daily life.

As to the idea of doing it SSC, that is subjective as is evident on this forum alone...We have often been reprimanded for things we do which others do not see as SSC, and then later on down the track some of those same people are in a position to try it for themselves and discover they like the same activity and all of a sudden it is OK. No matter how enlightened and informed you are, you find as you continue on your own journey that your views change, your activities broaden and usually become more adventurous, your tastes and preferences may change, and you see things in a whole new light. Even now after 4 years 24/7 (and given F has around 13 years experience all up and I around 6), we are still changing, adapting, and approaching areas we once thoguht we would never consider in a blue fit...it is growth and confidence in exploring the dark places within ourselves and the lifestyle, nothing more, nothing less.

Catalina

 

[O'Mac]

No, it wasn't. The dark side IMHO comes in because of the areas we dabble in which others see as suspect or misguided. It does not mean it is, but it does make a lot of people suppress their desire to explore those areas which are often seen to be far from normal or healthy...and for many of us who play a little harder, yes, there are places we go which to even other players seem dark and dangerous. Let's face it, in the mainstream if you did half the things you do under the umbrella of BDSM, it would be considered dark, bad, abusive etc....to try and deny that IMO is niave or denial.

I see what you mean. Yes, as a matter of some people's perception, I would agree that what some lifestylers do may be considered "dark or dangerous" as you put it. The question put forward was whether or not we (in the lifestyle) consider BDSM to be dark (ie: unhealthy, abusive, etc.).

"Dark" to me implies something to be immoral, unhealthy, or illegal in some way or another. BDSM, when practised responsibly is neither of the aforementioned. Yes, as you mentioned different people have different views of what is socially acceptable, and if the question was whether we think others view the lifestyle as dark, I would agree that there will always be people having an issue with what we do. Personally though, I don't think of it any more or less dark than sex in general.

 

[Master_of_Pupets]

I see the "taboo" of it as the attraction.

The "darkness" of it is all in the eyes of the participants, imo.


LNE

I tend to agree, the whole taboo i dea is what sometimes makes it interesting, the idea that some people think its dark/wrong makes it fun, the whole forbiden friut is so much sweeter. Although with full concent and saftey ect. there shouldnt be a reason to think its wrong.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I see what you mean. Yes, as a matter of some people's perception, I would agree that what some lifestylers do may be considered "dark or dangerous" as you put it. The question put forward was whether or not we (in the lifestyle) consider BDSM to be dark (ie: unhealthy, abusive, etc.).

"Dark" to me implies something to be immoral, unhealthy, or illegal in some way or another. BDSM, when practised responsibly is neither of the aforementioned. Yes, as you mentioned different people have different views of what is socially acceptable, and if the question was whether we think others view the lifestyle as dark, I would agree that there will always be people having an issue with what we do. Personally though, I don't think of it any more or less dark than sex in general.

True in part, though you took it I was talking about the opinion of non BDSMers whereas I was referring to the view of many also into BDSM. When I look at the synonym's of dark Pure presents at the top of the thread, it still comes back to yes for me as words such as wanton, corrupt, debased, sullied are terms I can identify with in terms of where our play aims at, and terms which have been used by other players in relation to our lifestyle and play. Even last night I drew comments in a D/s based group online regarding what the majority of the group saw as darker than what they were used to. We do play in ways which are often seen by other players as corrupt, debased etc., on both a physical and psychological level. Add to that I have been checking out another forum/site where many play even harder and more risky than us and I can definately see where the darkness is alive and well.

It sort of reminds me of friends in vanilla days who have told me how adventurous and daring their sexlife is and yet they have gotten to 40+ and never had anal sex, oral sex, period sex, or basically anything other than one on one missionary with the occasional change of position. In comparison what I was doing in my teens just used to make them have a fit. Just as in vanilla, there are different experiences pursued in BDSM by some which tend to go beyond the general practice which will be seen by some to be darker. It is neither better or worse except for the needs fulfilled of the ones involved.

Catalina

 

[SirFace]

Its very easy to see why you are the moderator here. Very insightful and intelligent.

 

[John Doe]

For one thing I think the term is being misused. It seems that most of the posters in this thread so far equate the Dark Side with Evil, but it's not necessarily so negative. Your frame of reference is either Light or Dark, but it is only your actions that are truly good or evil.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I personally think a little 'dark evil side' to a person makes them much more interesting.