Does Horny Goat Weed Work?

[wortchiller]

Has anyone had any experience with Horny Goat Weed? I would be interested in hearing from ladies and gentlemen as to the effectiveness of this supplement. I've read different reviews but afraid to believe everything on the internet. Thanks!

 

[njlauren]

Well, this is the internet *lol*..I am using a product with horny goat weed and ginko in it and it has worked really well for me. I am in my late 40's, and my sex drive was really flagging, my T level was borderline low and I was having trouble with erections. Part of it was age, some might be lingering effects form the years I was on HRT (female hormones; I was in transition, M to F, then stopped a number of years ago..). In any event, I tried viagra, it worked, but I have been taking the supplement now for several months and it is working for me, I am pretty certain my T level has gone up based on my energy level, and I am definitely able to maintain erections now without viagra, my spouse seems happy, anyway.....

The stuff I take works because it I believe blocks the enzyme Viagra does, I believe it also increased nitric oxide levels as well and studies also have confirmed what I think is going on, it raises T levels (men naturally lose about 5% of their T level each year after about age 30). It also increases blood flow, as does the gingko....in any event, I have found it works for me. I take two of the pills each day and it does't seem to have any side effects, other then when I first started taking it I found it caused me to have some trouble sleeping, but that went away after a few days.

 

[sweettreat601]

We've used it at my house, and it seems to be quite effective. )

 

[satindesire]

Has anyone had any experience with Horny Goat Weed? I would be interested in hearing from ladies and gentlemen as to the effectiveness of this supplement. I've read different reviews but afraid to believe everything on the internet. Thanks!

http://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/medication/placebo-effect.htm

 

[njlauren]

With horny goat weed it isn't a placebo effect, there have been studies done on the substances involved and it does produce nitric oxide and block the enzyme in question and also boost testosterone. The structure of the chemicals in horny goat weed is in the same class as viagra and cialis and works similarly in terms of getting erections. There also have been some (albeit) limited studies of the use of horny goat weed using controlled studies, and it has shown to have about the same placebo effect levels in other blind studies (i.e where people taking a sugar pill see improvements) and it also has shown effectiveness almost as much as viagra and such.

The problem with horny goat weed and such is making sure that what you are taking has the right dosage and such, since it is not fully regulated. I tend to urge people to find stuff either labelled USP or buy stuff from Germany and Europe, where it is regulated.

It is also worth a shot, viagra is ridiculously expensive, even where insurance covers it it is almost 10 bucks a pill for a 50mg dose, and without it very expensive...daily cialis is a couple of hundred bucks a month. The stuff I take, that has horny goat weed and gingko in it, costs about 35 bucks a month, worth a shot over viagra and the like.

The article in question is also dubious, claiming that 30% of people can see the placebo effect. In double blind trials, where the subjects and their doctors don't know if they are receiving a placebo or the real thing, the people in the placebo group usually have roughly a 5% rate on average, I have never seen in an effectiveness study the placebo group coming up that high. In fact, if the placebo group was that high a lot of drugs would never get approved, since their are drugs out there that have effectiveness rates less than that, and drugs where the placebo rate is higher then the drug are considered failures.

 

[satindesire]

With horny goat weed it isn't a placebo effect, there have been studies done on the substances involved and it does produce nitric oxide and block the enzyme in question and also boost testosterone. The structure of the chemicals in horny goat weed is in the same class as viagra and cialis and works similarly in terms of getting erections. There also have been some (albeit) limited studies of the use of horny goat weed using controlled studies, and it has shown to have about the same placebo effect levels in other blind studies (i.e where people taking a sugar pill see improvements) and it also has shown effectiveness almost as much as viagra and such.

The problem with horny goat weed and such is making sure that what you are taking has the right dosage and such, since it is not fully regulated. I tend to urge people to find stuff either labelled USP or buy stuff from Germany and Europe, where it is regulated.

It is also worth a shot, viagra is ridiculously expensive, even where insurance covers it it is almost 10 bucks a pill for a 50mg dose, and without it very expensive...daily cialis is a couple of hundred bucks a month. The stuff I take, that has horny goat weed and gingko in it, costs about 35 bucks a month, worth a shot over viagra and the like.

The article in question is also dubious, claiming that 30% of people can see the placebo effect. In double blind trials, where the subjects and their doctors don't know if they are receiving a placebo or the real thing, the people in the placebo group usually have roughly a 5% rate on average, I have never seen in an effectiveness study the placebo group coming up that high. In fact, if the placebo group was that high a lot of drugs would never get approved, since their are drugs out there that have effectiveness rates less than that, and drugs where the placebo rate is higher then the drug are considered failures.

I'd like to see those studies you mentioned. Links please.

 

[nakdsub]

Damn!...

I thought all that stuff was bunk, but it sounds as though I might have to try this stuff.

 

[nakdsub]

Okay, I just ordered some...

How long before the effects start and I can get back to my twenties again?

 

[njlauren]

You won't get back to your 20's with anything, it isn't a miracle herb per se. If my experience holds it takes several weeks to work. What I have found is my energy increased and my response is light years better than what it was before, and quite frankly works better then viagra did, doesn't have the side effects viagra does either. Nice part is, I also don't have to wait since I am taking it every day. Everyone is probably different, but it is worth trying it to see how it works with you and it won't bankrupt you, either.

 

[njlauren]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080929084954.htm
http://www.thehormoneshop.com/hornygoatweed.htm#Effect (this link has a clinical study report at the bottom that describes a limited test)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/09/30/us-hornygoatweed-idUSTRE48T6WS20080930

I was careful to say that they haven't done widespread studies on horny goat weed products. The wiki article on it cited a number of studies done in China as well. All I can say is it has worked well for me, the product I take has a mix of HGW and Ginko, I never guaranteed it would work for others, but I am pretty certain this isn't a placebo effect on me, I tend to be someone where placebos don't work, I tend to be very skeptical about things and I don't take things at face value. Given the relatively easy access there is to horny goat weed and its relatively low cost, might be worth a shot. Doctors in Europe, where the pharm industry doesn't have quite the say it does in the US, tend to try herbal based medicines first, they use things like St. John's wort for depression and other natural remedies before going with the pharm stuff, and doctors in Europe are already using HGW based treatments for ED and other issues. I am not surprised studies have been limited on this, the money in such research comes from pharm companies and they only want to do things they can patent and make large profit margins on (can't blame them), and they pay for most of the studies.

And if it works on a placebo effect for some it isn't going to break the bank doing it.

 

[RomanSteel]

I can understand it working like Viagra and allowing you to get an erection but does it boost your desire? Because to have my partner achieve erection but not have the desire to have sex would be horrible. I only ask because my spouse has LOW T and no interest at all. The doc said we can give you pills. But you only get stiff not "horny".

I won't take a boner if the boner doesn't want me.

 

[satindesire]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080929084954.htm
http://www.thehormoneshop.com/hornygoatweed.htm#Effect (this link has a clinical study report at the bottom that describes a limited test)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/09/30/us-hornygoatweed-idUSTRE48T6WS20080930

I was careful to say that they haven't done widespread studies on horny goat weed products. The wiki article on it cited a number of studies done in China as well. All I can say is it has worked well for me, the product I take has a mix of HGW and Ginko, I never guaranteed it would work for others, but I am pretty certain this isn't a placebo effect on me, I tend to be someone where placebos don't work, I tend to be very skeptical about things and I don't take things at face value. Given the relatively easy access there is to horny goat weed and its relatively low cost, might be worth a shot. Doctors in Europe, where the pharm industry doesn't have quite the say it does in the US, tend to try herbal based medicines first, they use things like St. John's wort for depression and other natural remedies before going with the pharm stuff, and doctors in Europe are already using HGW based treatments for ED and other issues. I am not surprised studies have been limited on this, the money in such research comes from pharm companies and they only want to do things they can patent and make large profit margins on (can't blame them), and they pay for most of the studies.

And if it works on a placebo effect for some it isn't going to break the bank doing it.

Interesting. The tested aren't done by the FDA....So, it hasn't been approved by the FDA, and the supplements are not regulated. So, the pill that you might be taking could have 1/10000th of a percent of Horny Goat weed, with fillers like talc, sugar, etc.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/herbal-supplements/SA00044

In January 2000, the FDA updated the laws governing the labeling of herbal supplements, so consumers now can see labels that explain how herbs can influence different actions in the body. However, herbal supplement labels still cannot say anything about treating specific medical conditions, because herbal supplements are not subject to clinical trials or to the same manufacturing standards as prescription or traditional over-the-counter drugs.http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...ternative_medicine/herbal_medicine_85,P00181/

In the United States, herbs intended for preventive or therapeutic use would be regulated as drugs under federal laws. To evade the law, these products are marketed as "foods" or "dietary supplements" without health claims on their labels. Since these are not regulated as drugs, no legal standards exist for their processing, harvesting, or packaging. In many cases, particularly for products with expensive raw ingredients, contents and potency are not accurately disclosed on the label. Many products marked as herbs contain no useful ingredients, and some even lack the principal ingredient for which people buy them. Surveys have found have found that the ingredients and doses of several products varied considerably from brand to brand.

A Good Housekeeping Institute analysis of six widely available St. John's wort supplement capsules and four liquid extracts revealed a lack of consistency of the suspected active ingredients, hypericin and pseudohypericin. The study found:
A 17-fold difference between the capsules containing the smallest amount of hypericin and those containing the largest amount, based on manufacturer's maximum recommended dosage.
A 13-fold difference in pseudohypericin in the capsules.
A 7-to-8-fold differential from the highest to the lowest levels of liquid extracts [1].
A similar investigation by the Los Angeles Times found that 7 of 10 Dr. John's wort products contained between 75% and 135% of the labeled hypericin level, and three contained no more than about half the labeled potency [2].
Researchers at the University of Arkansas who tested 20 supplement products containing ephedra (ma huang) found many differences in alkaloid content from product to product and between two lots of the same product. Half the products exhibited discrepancies of 20% or more between the label claim and the actual content, and one product contained no ephedra alkaloids [3]. Ephedra products are marketed as "energy boosters" and/or "thermogenic" diet aids, even though no published clinical trials substantiate that they are safe or effective for these purposes. The researchers also noted that hundreds of such products are marketed and that their number exceeds that of conventional prescription and nonprescription ephedra products, which are FDA-approved as decongestants
The April 2000 issue of D Magazine reported that—at its request—a leading laboratory had tested five brands of DHEA, ginger, ginkgo biloba, ginseng, melatonin, saw palmetto, St. John's wort, and milk thistle purchased at five stores in the Dallas area. The ginger and melatonin products contained the stated amounts, but 10 of the other 30 products did not, and a few products had capsules that easily fell apart [4].
In October 2003, the AMA Archives of Internal Medicine reported the results of a survey of herbal products at twenty retail stores in and around Minneapolis. The chosen herbs were echinacea, St. John's wort, ginkgo biloba, garlic, saw palmetto, ginseng, goldenseal, aloe, Siberian ginseng, and valerian. The authors noted that 43% of 880 products were labeled with the ingredients and dosage that had used in published studies of the ingredients. The actual ingredients were not measured, but the survey indicated that many manufacturers failed to formulate their products to correspond with available research data. [5]. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/herbs.html

So, you're basically saying that you completely support an industry as you've had "good results" with an unregulated product that may or may not actually contain enough of the ingredient to have ANY significant impact on your body, but you're not the "kind of person that the placebo effect works on".

Then you give me links to what you openly admitted were LIMITED studies NOT approved or done by the FDA, to back up your claims.

Okay. Just so we're 100% clear where we stand.

 

[amofiga]

I can understand it working like Viagra and allowing you to get an erection but does it boost your desire? Because to have my partner achieve erection but not have the desire to have sex would be horrible. I only ask because my spouse has LOW T and no interest at all. The doc said we can give you pills. But you only get stiff not "horny".

I won't take a boner if the boner doesn't want me.

This isn't necessarily true. The "boner" doesn't happen automatically with viagra or any of the other "boner pills". There has to be the desire to want to have sex and often some form of physical stimulation as well as mental stimulation i.e. fondeling, blow job, whatever. It's tough to get stiff without being horny. It sounds like you're looking more for "romantic desire" than horny-ness which is the desire for sex and not necessarily soft lights and candles.

As for the horny goat weed, the primary ingredient that affects PDE-5 enzyme is icarin. It surpresses this enzyme (which is the "ok it's over now you can go soft again and sleep" enzyme. Viagra, Cialis, Lavitra, etc also cause a spike in nitric acid which I'm not sure horny goat weed does not do unless you also perhaps take arginine. One of the problems with most horny goat weed pills sold in the US is that the level of icarin is low and it takes a handfull of pills to equal one 5 mg tab of Cialis. (I read that approximately 500 mg of icarin = 1 mg of Cialis or Viagra.) If anyone knows of an over-the-counter one that is more than say 20-25% icarin, please provide the information. It would be great to be able to buy 100% icarin and then you'd really have something.

 

[RomanSteel]

I was more curious because I've known men once on Viagra to get hard from a decent breeze.
So that was more my question.

As for any of the other stuff, we're having to go to a specialist. Groin injury 2 years ago made both desire and ability go out the door. Perhaps he's just backed up and pinched off *shrug*

It was a curiosity though. Thanks for the feed back.

 

[Biker_Type]

niacin and arginine do the trick for me, and if i add a cialis then it can be a long weekend!

 

[njlauren]

Interesting. The tested aren't done by the FDA....So, it hasn't been approved by the FDA, and the supplements are not regulated. So, the pill that you might be taking could have 1/10000th of a percent of Horny Goat weed, with fillers like talc, sugar, etc.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/herbal-supplements/SA00044

In January 2000, the FDA updated the laws governing the labeling of herbal supplements, so consumers now can see labels that explain how herbs can influence different actions in the body. However, herbal supplement labels still cannot say anything about treating specific medical conditions, because herbal supplements are not subject to clinical trials or to the same manufacturing standards as prescription or traditional over-the-counter drugs.http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...ternative_medicine/herbal_medicine_85,P00181/

In the United States, herbs intended for preventive or therapeutic use would be regulated as drugs under federal laws. To evade the law, these products are marketed as "foods" or "dietary supplements" without health claims on their labels. Since these are not regulated as drugs, no legal standards exist for their processing, harvesting, or packaging. In many cases, particularly for products with expensive raw ingredients, contents and potency are not accurately disclosed on the label. Many products marked as herbs contain no useful ingredients, and some even lack the principal ingredient for which people buy them. Surveys have found have found that the ingredients and doses of several products varied considerably from brand to brand.

A Good Housekeeping Institute analysis of six widely available St. John's wort supplement capsules and four liquid extracts revealed a lack of consistency of the suspected active ingredients, hypericin and pseudohypericin. The study found:
A 17-fold difference between the capsules containing the smallest amount of hypericin and those containing the largest amount, based on manufacturer's maximum recommended dosage.
A 13-fold difference in pseudohypericin in the capsules.
A 7-to-8-fold differential from the highest to the lowest levels of liquid extracts [1].
A similar investigation by the Los Angeles Times found that 7 of 10 Dr. John's wort products contained between 75% and 135% of the labeled hypericin level, and three contained no more than about half the labeled potency [2].
Researchers at the University of Arkansas who tested 20 supplement products containing ephedra (ma huang) found many differences in alkaloid content from product to product and between two lots of the same product. Half the products exhibited discrepancies of 20% or more between the label claim and the actual content, and one product contained no ephedra alkaloids [3]. Ephedra products are marketed as "energy boosters" and/or "thermogenic" diet aids, even though no published clinical trials substantiate that they are safe or effective for these purposes. The researchers also noted that hundreds of such products are marketed and that their number exceeds that of conventional prescription and nonprescription ephedra products, which are FDA-approved as decongestants
The April 2000 issue of D Magazine reported that—at its request—a leading laboratory had tested five brands of DHEA, ginger, ginkgo biloba, ginseng, melatonin, saw palmetto, St. John's wort, and milk thistle purchased at five stores in the Dallas area. The ginger and melatonin products contained the stated amounts, but 10 of the other 30 products did not, and a few products had capsules that easily fell apart [4].
In October 2003, the AMA Archives of Internal Medicine reported the results of a survey of herbal products at twenty retail stores in and around Minneapolis. The chosen herbs were echinacea, St. John's wort, ginkgo biloba, garlic, saw palmetto, ginseng, goldenseal, aloe, Siberian ginseng, and valerian. The authors noted that 43% of 880 products were labeled with the ingredients and dosage that had used in published studies of the ingredients. The actual ingredients were not measured, but the survey indicated that many manufacturers failed to formulate their products to correspond with available research data. [5]. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/herbs.html

So, you're basically saying that you completely support an industry as you've had "good results" with an unregulated product that may or may not actually contain enough of the ingredient to have ANY significant impact on your body, but you're not the "kind of person that the placebo effect works on".

Then you give me links to what you openly admitted were LIMITED studies NOT approved or done by the FDA, to back up your claims.

Okay. Just so we're 100% clear where we stand.

Yes, these things are regulated as food additives, I am well aware of that, and I am also well aware of the problems with levels in these products. It is why I said people have to be careful what they are buying. Products produced for the german market, for example, have higher standards, Germany regulates supplements and they are required to prove purity. In the US, there are voluntary standards for purity and levels like USP, that you can use as partial judge.

But what that discounts is that herbal or natural products can work and do if you are able to find reputable providers it can make a difference. People like Dr. Andrew Weil, who is an integrative medical doctor, has become an expert on traditional and herbal meds and he often recommends trying natural remedies first, many of whom have been proven to work. Things like red rice yeast (a natural statin producer) can work as well or better then products like lipitor without the side effects, St. Johns wort and the like have been proven effective with low level depression without the effects of prescription anti depression meds and so forth. Arguing it is all placebo effect is kind of idiotic when doctors have patients using these things.

The real problem is in the US the pharmaceutical industry has been lobbying to try and get naturpathic remedies regulated in the same way that new prescription drugs are rather then having them regulated in a reasonable fashion, to make sure, for example that what is advertised is what is in the product (btw there is a serious problem with prescription meds with the same thing; the ingredients for a lot of prescription drugs are being produced in China and India, and there are serious problems being reported where the ingredients being used are not what they claim to be) and so forth, and also to promote studies of effectiveness. Herbal remedies and such as food items are allowed if they are found not to be harmful and they don't need what prescription drugs go through because of that (note they are not allowed to claim they can treat anything because they don't have that). A large part of clinical trials is making sure that the drug isn't harmful before it is allowed out (the other part is if it actually can claim it is effective for what it is treating). I think with herbal meds that it would be great to have enforced quality control of the ingredients and not allow them to make claims for the product without it being tested and leave it up to the consumers and/or doctors if they want to try them. The pharm industry, on the other hand, wants them fully regulated so they can do what they do with prescription meds, they want them under their control so they can charge a fortune for them, and with naturopathic meds it would be a slam dunk, very little development work and huge profit margins. Put it this way, the reason viagra and cialis are not OTC is the companies don't want them there, lot more profit with them as prescription meds plus drug distributors and doctors make out pushing them as well.

As far as Horny Goat weed goes, I simply said what my experience with it was and told others to give it a shot. A month supply of the stuff I take (that is from a supplier my doctor recommended to me, I get heart health vitamins from them as well) is roughly 35 bucks, if that hadn't of worked for me I would have been out 35 bucks. Someone asked if I had experience with it, and I do, and I said it worked for me. Assuming it is placebo effect is idiotic, you can no more claim it is the placebo effect without studies then I can claim it is absolutely proven to work (which I never said), I just recommended people try it and see if it works for them, the same way I would do with any other product I liked, whether it was shampoo or a brand of toilet paper *shrug*.

Again, I can only speak for myself, but my T level was at the low end of the normal range (which in of itself means little, what was my range at its peak?) and I had that taken because I was sluggish and my libido was pretty low. Since being on the stuff with HGW and other stuff in it, my libido and energy have been up and I don't think it is placebo effect, I also have seen other physical signs my T level is up. Next time I go to the doctor I plan on having him run a test on my T and have him compare it to my prior level,be interesting to see if it went up.

And if it is placebo effect, what the heck, if it works, doesn't matter, and if others don't find good results they haven't risked a whole hell of a lot..and I can tell you from experience Viagra and Cialis and the like have some major side effects, some of which are not pleasant,I haven't had that with the stuff I take.

 

[njlauren]

This isn't necessarily true. The "boner" doesn't happen automatically with viagra or any of the other "boner pills". There has to be the desire to want to have sex and often some form of physical stimulation as well as mental stimulation i.e. fondeling, blow job, whatever. It's tough to get stiff without being horny. It sounds like you're looking more for "romantic desire" than horny-ness which is the desire for sex and not necessarily soft lights and candles.

As for the horny goat weed, the primary ingredient that affects PDE-5 enzyme is icarin. It surpresses this enzyme (which is the "ok it's over now you can go soft again and sleep" enzyme. Viagra, Cialis, Lavitra, etc also cause a spike in nitric acid which I'm not sure horny goat weed does not do unless you also perhaps take arginine. One of the problems with most horny goat weed pills sold in the US is that the level of icarin is low and it takes a handfull of pills to equal one 5 mg tab of Cialis. (I read that approximately 500 mg of icarin = 1 mg of Cialis or Viagra.) If anyone knows of an over-the-counter one that is more than say 20-25% icarin, please provide the information. It would be great to be able to buy 100% icarin and then you'd really have something.

Thing about that is unless you need 100 HGW tables to equal a tab of cialis, it is a lot cheaper to try it *shrug*.....6 viagra tablets without insurance is something like 180 bucks....plus with viagra you have to take it just before having sex, whereas with the HGW you take it every day. I wonder if by taking the pills continuously, rather then taking a tablet before sex. Daily cialis is 249 bucks a month.......I also wonder if taking these supplements daily if they build the level up in the bloodstream and end up being effective though low dose, I have no way of knowing. Just seems like it can't hurt to try it, if it doesn't work can always go back to Cialis or whatever.

 

[satindesire]

*snip*
And if it is placebo effect, what the heck, if it works, doesn't matter, and if others don't find good results they haven't risked a whole hell of a lot..and I can tell you from experience Viagra and Cialis and the like have some major side effects, some of which are not pleasant,I haven't had that with the stuff I take.

http://www.euroclinix.net/herbal-viagra.html "
There are many available herbal treatments and some do have the potential to boost your sex drive or produce slight results, but they are not clinically proven treatments and are unlikely to help people with real erection problems.
Are herbal variations illegal?

It is legal to sell and buy herbal Viagra online or in stores. There are, however, traditional herbal ingredients used in these products that are restricted in some countries, even if they are legal in others. This means that you may be purchasing a medicine that contains a banned ingredient, without even knowing it, from a retailer in another country when you buy herbal Viagra online. To help with this potential problem, the MHRA compiled a list of registered herbal ingredients, so before you buy herbal Viagra online you can make sure that the natural ingredients in the herbal supplement you are intending to purchase are considered safe for use by the appropriate authorities where you live.
Is it safe to buy herbal Viagra online?

Although herbal versions of impotence medication are generally considered harmless and safe to use, there have been reports that some variants of herbal Viagra can cause low blood pressure or impede the body’s blood flow, making it more difficult to travel to your vital organs. There is also some concern that too high a dosage of herbal Viagra could produce a toxic effect.

You should never take any herbal supplements in conjunction with prescription medication. Speak to your doctor about increasing your dosage if you feel that the medication you are taking isn’t providing you with the results you want. If you are currently taking any other medication or have underlying health conditions, it is best to speak to your doctor before taking a natural supplement to enhance your erection."


Also:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/01/new-eu-rules-on-herbal-remedies

And:
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulat...erbalsafetyadvice/Advicetoconsumers/index.htm

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that purchasing herbal supplements online might be a very good way to get yourself into trouble, and some of the negative side effects that you mentioned? Possibly just as prevalent with "herbal" versions of pharmaceuticals.

In the end, one has to determine what amount of trouble they want to go through, and what risk is worth the benefits.

 

[amofiga]

Thing about that is unless you need 100 HGW tables to equal a tab of cialis, it is a lot cheaper to try it *shrug*.....6 viagra tablets without insurance is something like 180 bucks....plus with viagra you have to take it just before having sex, whereas with the HGW you take it every day. I wonder if by taking the pills continuously, rather then taking a tablet before sex. Daily cialis is 249 bucks a month.......I also wonder if taking these supplements daily if they build the level up in the bloodstream and end up being effective though low dose, I have no way of knowing. Just seems like it can't hurt to try it, if it doesn't work can always go back to Cialis or whatever.

I can't speak to the price of Viagra but $180 for six tabs seems high. You have me curious and I may call around to some pharmacies just to learn. I never thought that stuff would be that expesive. No wonder the pharm companies make big profits. I suppose it may depend on the strength and I know the low dose Cialis is something like 5 mg and it goes up to maybe 20 mg. I also read where Cialis stays in your bloodstream for something like 24-36 hours so a tab should work for two days in a row. Have you talked to your doctor about some "free samples"? Maybe he'd be a nice guy, but that wouldn't help in the long term. I see ads in magazines saying "see your doctor for samples."

If the horny goat weed you have has enough icarin in it and it works for you, then you're good to go. If not, maybe a combination of the horny goat weed and lower dose of Viagra or Cialis might be cheaper. I've heard that buying drugs online from Canada can be cheaper but you need to verify that the source you're using for any drug is legit and not some guy in a trailer selling capsules full of floor sweepings. I'd think a call to a pharmacy in Canada or a check with the equivalent of the Canadian Better Business Bureau wouldn't be that tough or that expensive if it gives peace of mind.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[C2W]

insufficient by itself...in my opinion

Hey,

I have tried the horny goat weed but it wasnt until I started using, pepitos, green oats, damiana and saw palmetto before I went from JUST getting a proper hard-on to actually getting hot and needing sex. A side note here, as proportions I just used equal amounts of all the ingredients and it worked extremely well.


later

 

[desertslave]

Interesting. The tested aren't done by the FDA....So, it hasn't been approved by the FDA, and the supplements are not regulated. So, the pill that you might be taking could have 1/10000th of a percent of Horny Goat weed, with fillers like talc, sugar, etc.

The FDA is notoriously slow in approving, or even considering, non-big Pharma products. The FDA is virtually owned by the pharmaceutical industry. If fistfuls of money can't be made, for the benefit of one of the big companies, the FDA won't give a possible treatment the time of day.

Additionally, they refuse to recognize reliable studies done outside of the US and require completely redundant studies to be done instead. That raises the cost of any drug in question. Honestly, I'd trust a study from Europe over studies blessed by the FDA.

 

[satindesire]

The FDA is notoriously slow in approving, or even considering, non-big Pharma products. The FDA is virtually owned by the pharmaceutical industry. If fistfuls of money can't be made, for the benefit of one of the big companies, the FDA won't give a possible treatment the time of day.

Additionally, they refuse to recognize reliable studies done outside of the US and require completely redundant studies to be done instead. That raises the cost of any drug in question. Honestly, I'd trust a study from Europe over studies blessed by the FDA.

With as Sue-Happy as Americans are, I don't blame the FDA for being slow to back medications and supplements. Even drugs that seem safe in testing and are approved by the FDA can negatively affect a number of people that in the testing phase, was too small to not be considered within the margins of tolerable or "Reasonable error".

That being said, I would rather trust something that the FDA proved was safe for (most) people to use, than trust something that may or may not have effective (or any) dose(s) of the medicine or supplement the bottle claimed.

More safe is better than less safe, in my opinion. I have kids to worry about...I can't go wasting money and time and my health on something I'm LESS sure about.

Some people will be more laissez faire about it than I, that's fine, but I believe that the attitude of "This supplement WILL help you with XYZ problem!" is pushing the limits of reasonable doubt.

 

[desertslave]

So tested safe in Europe doesn't count? Do you believe the European drug trials and agencies don't have their citizens' best interests and safety at heart?

That's the issue that always boggles me. People believe in a lobby-driven agency over one from another country...as if Canada or France is somehow deemed more willing to put their own people at risk. Very strange.

 

[amofiga]

So tested safe in Europe doesn't count? Do you believe the European drug trials and agencies don't have their citizens' best interests and safety at heart?

That's the issue that always boggles me. People believe in a lobby-driven agency over one from another country...as if Canada or France is somehow deemed more willing to put their own people at risk. Very strange.

There are many drugs that have been used safely and successfuly in Europe for years but the FDA will not allow them in the US unless they go through more years of trials here in the US. I think part of it is indeed the big phrma companies that want to keep things out until they have a competing product. One I know of is Strontium Ranelate which is used to treat osteoprosis. It's been used with success in Europe for at least 9 years and has fewer side effects than the bad biophosphonates used in the US that can cause strange femur fractures and jaw problems. The problem is that a French company holds a patent on the ranelate salt used as the carrier and big US pharma companies have nothing like it. It's currently undergoing trials in the US but it will be at least 3-4 years before it can be sold here. Same is true with a particular diabetes drug used in Europe and Canada but not the US.

I love the way we always here we have the greatest health care system in the world yet there are drugs and procedures that work elsewhere but you have to go elsewhere for them. Fred Couples and VJ Singh (golfers) have been going to Germany for special back treatments that they can't get in the US. Suzane Somers had to go through many hoops for three years to get herself listed as a candidate for a clinical trial to get stem cell reconstruction that has been used in Japan. She could have gone to Japan but went the extra mile to see to it that it was done in the US to set a precedent.

I'd have no problem buying legit drugs from legit pharmacies in Europe or Canada but would NOT trust anything on the internet from Mexico or India or China.

 

[satindesire]

So tested safe in Europe doesn't count? Do you believe the European drug trials and agencies don't have their citizens' best interests and safety at heart?

That's the issue that always boggles me. People believe in a lobby-driven agency over one from another country...as if Canada or France is somehow deemed more willing to put their own people at risk. Very strange.

Don't put words in my mouth, thanks. Lobby-driven agencies isn't what I'm looking for. If I want to fix a problem with my health, I'll take something that's been proven to work for a large variety of persons.

And I hate to break it to you, but other countries aren't above the things that you claim to revile about American Pharm. It's strange to me when I see people claim that other countries are somehow "better" or less corrupt or selfish. Let me tell you sister, people are people, regardless of what soil they're born on.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032302_herbal_supplements_European_Union.html

So, with all the choices ahead of me, with no actual proof that European or Canadian herbal supplements will help me BETTER than medication I can get here in the US, I'll stick with American medicines.