Does anybody take Ayn Rand seriously any more?

[pecksniff]

Objectivism is similar to Marxism in that it is based in the tradition of the Continental rationalist Enlightenment rather than the British empirical Enlightenment. That kind of reasoning-from-first-principles tends to produce an epistemically closed system that on its own terms cannot be falsified by any conceivable data (see Austrian school of economics).

Rand fancied herself a philosopher but she never fancied herself an economist -- she assumed the superior efficiency of a market economy but never tried to prove it, and it would be beside the point anyway -- everything important about her philosophy is implied by its ethical premises, that's what it's all about, not practical results.

Is there anything about Objectivism which has any value or relevance in this day and age?

And does anybody who claims to read Rand actually do so? We all read Anthem because it was the shortest book on the summer reading list, but apart from that.

 

[WillJ8787]

Objectivism is similar to Marxism in that it is based in the tradition of the Continental rationalist Enlightenment rather than the British empirical Enlightenment. That kind of reasoning-from-first-principles tends to produce an epistemically closed system that on its own terms cannot be falsified by any conceivable data (see Austrian school of economics).

Rand fancied herself a philosopher but she never fancied herself an economist -- she assumed the superior efficiency of a market economy but never tried to prove it, and it would be beside the point anyway -- everything important about her philosophy is implied by its ethical premises, that's what it's all about, not practical results.

Is there anything about Objectivism which has any value or relevance in this day and age?

And does anybody who claims to read Rand actually do so? We all read Anthem because it was the shortest book on the summer reading list, but apart from that.

I find folks who enjoy her books all the time...half of them take books like Atlas Shrugged very literally so the point is often lost on them. In my opinion, she doesn't hold any significant sway in any dialogue or debate today....she was a 70's phenom probably because her books were more recent.

 

[pecksniff]

BTW, Rand wanted to call her philosophy "existentialism," but that name was already taken by a completely different school of thought.

 

[phrodeau]

Everyone switched to George Orwell, and for good reason.

 

[pecksniff]

An Objectivist Atlas will shrug
When the ladies won't go past a hug
Self-reliant as Rand
Is his own nimble hand
On his Fountainhead ready to tug!

 

[pecksniff]

Everyone switched to George Orwell, and for good reason.

He was a much better, if less systematic, thinker.

 

[Dribble]

Anytime a right-wing talking head references her name, the lemmings here will fall in lockstep...so yea...49% of the populous take her serious

 

[pecksniff]

Anytime a right-wing talking head references her name, the lemmings here will fall in lockstep...so yea...49% of the populous take her serious

It's spelled "populace."

 

[Dribble]

It's spelled "populace."

Yea i will learn someday. Not that i care as long as people know what I am talking about.

 

[WillJ8787]

Notice not one of our dopes here on lit have anything to say....they have no clue what we are talking about because they don't know what "objective philosophy" is all about and how Rand played a pivotal role in creating Conservative/Republican philosophy that was the base of their politics in the late 1960's and 70's. Rand is an important figure, or should be, in understanding how one gets from conservatives of those days(i.e. William Buckley, others) to today(William Kristol).

 

[WillJ8787]

This discussion also brings up an important discovery for me. As a University.student, back in the day, I had numerous Russian friends during the very end of the Soviet Era.

The common mythology portrayed by Conservatives, many Liberal Progressives and popular culture in the USA about Soviet Russia are almost all incorrect. As can be seen in Movies like The Hunt for Red October, statement such as, "private property are of no concern....and are contrary to the collective good..." (Paraphrase) are patently false.

Soviet Russian citizens did own private property just like their American counterparts, "political officers" were not running around in Soviet Russia overseeing all aspects of life(political life or otherwise).

These notions along with many others are just patently false. According to every Russian I ever meet, including all their family members, they had as much freedom as any American. All the folks I had relationships with were Soviet Russian citizens traveling and studying abroad....just like any other citizen of countries that were considered "free" societies.

Understanding Soviet Russia, it's political systems, is complicated, just like anything else.

 

[CornusKousa]

Notice not one of our dopes here on lit have anything to say....they have no clue what we are talking about because they don't know what "objective philosophy" is all about and how Rand played a pivotal role in creating Conservative/Republican philosophy that was the base of their politics in the late 1960's and 70's. Rand is an important figure, or should be, in understanding how one gets from conservatives of those days(i.e. William Buckley, others) to today(William Kristol).

I was out getting that morning PT in.

I know exactly what you're talking about, you're full of shit and a fucking liar.

Did you ever figure out what the word "racism" is or are you still using it as a catch all phrase for people who disagree with your anti-American politics?

Soviet Russian citizens did own private property just like their American counterparts, "political officers" were not running around in Soviet Russia overseeing all aspects of life(political life or otherwise).

These notions along with many others are just patently false. According to every Russian I ever meet, including all their family members, they had as much freedom as any American.

WillJ, now trying to church up the Soviets, with verifiable lies.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

There are gaps in Objectivism big enough to drive a truck through, that's true. Rand also wasn't much of a technical whiz, either. And her philosophy tended to bend conveniently with her own personal preferences and wants.

What her real talent was was in observing the forces of totalitarianism and their abuse of language. She had today's Left pegged.

 

[CornusKousa]

What her real talent was was in observing the forces of totalitarianism and their abuse of language. She had today's Left pegged.

That's something even a large number lefties have pointed out and condemned. One of the most notable being Orwell....who also had today's left pegged.

 

[jomar]

If any thread would bring back that dude Amicus from the dead this would be it.

 

[phrodeau]

WillJ8787: Where are the dopes?

CornusKousa: Here I am!

 

[CornusKousa]

WillJ8787: Where are the dopes?

CornusKousa: Here I am!

OH look, phro is so devoid of creativity and thinking skills, he has to echo the name calling of others.

LOL....poor lil guy.

 

[phrodeau]

Bud Spencer: Rhetoric from the left is so abusive.

CornusKousa: Phrodeau is a poopy head.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Time was, you had but to utter Ayn Rand's name and AJ would appear within minutes. His devotion to Ayn Rand threads rivaled Vetteman's devotion to scat threads.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Bud Spencer: Rhetoric from the left is so abusive.

CornusKousa: Phrodeau is a poopy head.

You can't even frame what I said honestly, thus proving my point.

 

[WillJ8787]

WillJ8787: Where are the dopes?

CornusKousa: Here I am!

Yup!!! Kinda like shouting, "Here Fido....get my slippers fido."

 

[WillJ8787]

...and they have every opportunity to add something to the conversation....so what did they add here?

Distraction mostly.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You can't even frame what I said honestly, thus proving my point.

Pfft...I thought it was a pretty fair summation of both of you knuckle-dragging mouthbreathers.

 

[Rightguide]

As always when the left wants to attack a favorite political Protagonist from the past, they forget to judge the past that produced them. They never see history in its own context. Remember, she was an immigrant fleeing Russian Communism.

She had a clear, fearful, and personal understanding of evolving totalitarianism and the terror it could unleash upon millions of the unsuspecting that resonated with people at the time. Her books were filled with ideas of individualism, liberty, and limited government. There's no doubt the cultural values she promoted, individualism, science, reason, personal achievement, and happiness are still motivating the World today.

Yes she was hated by the left but loved by millions the World over. Atlas Shrugged as of 2010 had sold 7 million copies, in 2012 alone it sold another 1 million copies. At one point Book Of The Month Club surveyed its readers for the Library of Congress and reported its sales as second only to the Bible. The point being there was a time when Rand, her books, and her ideas, were lauded by people who needed them and applied them to their lives, businesses, and politics. Her time has past, but even today the flame for her ideas and values still burns bright, but the context in which they exist is changed.

 

[Dribble]

^^^ see the puppet?