Does an Erotic Novel have to be Romantic?

[a_bent_ampersand]

I was plunging through the message boards and I read a member here who suggested that a full on "romantic novel" would be far more difficult to write than an "erotic vignette."

Right now, on this site, I'm engaged in writing one of the longest pieces I've ever written, but the word "romance" never crosses my mind.

Romance is sexy in a way I don't care to explore. I want Romance in my real life. In this fantasy? Where I have characters fucking for this or that? I keep Romance out of it... I could very well be eliminating a lot of readers, but the readers who want romance aren't going to like my pornography anyway.

My brand is mind games, manipulation (same thing?), revenge, cowardice, mockery, pain, and evil. All of those words, to me, equal a novel... but can it be an erotic novel? Or are the only erotic novels that work romantic?

Do I need to figure a way for there to be more flowers?

just asking

abent&

 

[Penelope Street]

Do I need to figure a way for there to be more flowers?

I'm not sure why anyone would imagine an erotic piece of any length needs to be romantic.

 

[Jedikool]

No an erotic novel doesn't need romance, for the simple reason that sex does not require romance. Some people prefer to have romance before they have sex, just like some will prefer to have romance in an erotic story. But that's just a preference really. It's not necessary.

I think romance should be used if it fits the story and characters. If you are writing something where it simply isn't going to come up, as it sounds like you definitely are, then don't bother yourself with it.

 

[CWatson]

Let the story tell itself. If it requires roses and hearts, it'll make that clear. If it needs the opposite, that will be made clear as well. Trust the story. It knows what it's doing.

And then tell the story well, so that The Reader trusts YOU.

 

[SweetOblivion]

Does it need emotion then?

I tend to agree with the previous comments on romance and eroticism, but wondered if anyone would care to broaden the discussion...

I recently posted a deliberately emotion-free piece vaguely emulating the style of de Sade (with far less gore). The only feedback received was that is was well-written, but boring. On reflection I probably agree with the comment: the writing was not conducive to masturbatory frenzy, but there again, you can't always aim to please.

What do others think on the need to balance of general emotion/feeling with relentless, narrative description?

Sweet O.

 

[jacks4u]

I don't know whether erotic or pornographic fiction really needs romance, but tend to think no, unless the story needs it. take for instance, a BSDM story - there's not much of what most people call romance in a story of that nature.

On the other hand, I do what I like in fiction in general - I want to see the characters, the setting, the action, in my minds eye. I want to smell the mixed aroma of stale cum in the well used play room or dungeon, see the setting sun on the beach at dusk. I want to feel the touch of rough calloused hands on smooth skin that's been waiting for her construction worker to get home from work

 

[Fantasies_only]

I was plunging through the message boards and I read a member here who suggested that a full on "romantic novel" would be far more difficult to write than an "erotic vignette."

Right now, on this site, I'm engaged in writing one of the longest pieces I've ever written, but the word "romance" never crosses my mind.

Romance is sexy in a way I don't care to explore. I want Romance in my real life. In this fantasy? Where I have characters fucking for this or that? I keep Romance out of it... I could very well be eliminating a lot of readers, but the readers who want romance aren't going to like my pornography anyway.

My brand is mind games, manipulation (same thing?), revenge, cowardice, mockery, pain, and evil. All of those words, to me, equal a novel... but can it be an erotic novel? Or are the only erotic novels that work romantic?

Do I need to figure a way for there to be more flowers?

just asking

abent&

An erotic tale should have romance, however I make a distinction between flirtation, romance, and intimacy.
Flirtation is the build up before the story when the characters first get to know each other.
Romance or courting is more like holding hands while walking on the beach.
Intimacy is more like a guy stepping into the shower with his girlfriend and scrubbing her back.
If you add flirtation but skip romance, you must add intimacy.

 

[Fantasies_only]

SPAM DELETED BY MODERATOR. THANKS TO THOSE WHO POINTED OUT THE OLD QUOTE.

What was this about?

 

[Jagged]

I don't think you have to be romantic in an erotic novel, but it seems most of the commercially successful ones are, and I'm talking ones with threesomes, bisexuality and S&M. In the end though what you need is a good story. You can be as naughty as you like, but the reason why is what makes it erotica.

A couple making love in their car as they each remember their first times is erotica...a couple having sex in a car because it is red...well that is porn.

 

[sr71plt]

No, an erotic novel doesn't have to be Romantic. Of the ones I have published, the rougher-sex ones sell the best.

 

[Fantasies_only]

A couple making love in their car as they each remember their first times is erotica...a couple having sex in a car because it is red...well that is porn.

That's a matter of semantics not erotica.
We've had many discussions about erotica vs porn here.
The consensus seems to be, the concept of porn is different for every person.
For instance I call someone putting his dick (the word "cock" is overused here) in his girlfriend's mouth pornography.
Someone else might call it erotica because it's the man's girlfriend and not a hooker.

 

[Rubyswallows]

I was plunging through the message boards and I read a member here who suggested that a full on "romantic novel" would be far more difficult to write than an "erotic vignette."

Right now, on this site, I'm engaged in writing one of the longest pieces I've ever written, but the word "romance" never crosses my mind.

Romance is sexy in a way I don't care to explore. I want Romance in my real life. In this fantasy? Where I have characters fucking for this or that? I keep Romance out of it... I could very well be eliminating a lot of readers, but the readers who want romance aren't going to like my pornography anyway.

My brand is mind games, manipulation (same thing?), revenge, cowardice, mockery, pain, and evil. All of those words, to me, equal a novel... but can it be an erotic novel? Or are the only erotic novels that work romantic?

Do I need to figure a way for there to be more flowers?

just asking

abent&

I'm of two minds on this subject. One full-length erotic BDSM author I enjoy (Joey Hill) incorporates love and sex, but the 'romance' isn't necessarily the definition set by Harlequin-style books. I think emotions are important when writing simply because reading about inserting tab A into slot B without any connection between the characters is too dry and boring.

The emotions can be anything you want them to be, but just make sure it rings true for you. And who cares about flowers if you bring the velvet ropes, clowns, and a monkey with fast hands ;-)

 

[BertrandRussell]

What was this about?

It is some kind of traffic-stealing scam. The poster lists phrases that he believes are popular search phrases, and hopes to route them to his commercial web site.
By quoting him, you are inavdertently helping him.
When an admin sees it, it will disappear. I'd recommend that you edit out your copy of it.

 

[nkjskj]

may be it act of spam.

But I really like the post.

 

[Scotsman69]

To get back to the thread. I've written a few, mostly multi-part romances here on Lit, and they have been well-received. But I don't want to get stuck in a groove, I want to tackle new things, try writing in new ways. Over the past year I've tried to push my writing boundaries re BDSM, and most have been poorly-received in terms of scores, especially my latest, 'Burka'.

This actually took much longer to write, and caused me more blood, sweat and tears, than any earlier piece. I know that it's technically better than most of what I'd posted here before. I am a (rather mature) postgrad creative writing university student. I actively STUDY how to become a better writer technically - well, try to!

But this tale has bombed on Lit, with lower scores by a long measure than anything else I've written.

That won't stop me exploring uncomfortable things further. I'm not here to win competitions: I only compete with myself.

But my experience has certainly been that romance with good sex in it is more popular with Lit readers, than me trying to push uncomfortable boundaries.

I guess I see myself as the equivalent of an artisan chef, always trying new ways. If I wanted to own a chain of fast food joints, I'd find a successful formula and copy it faithfully every time.

But where's the fun in that?

 

[driphoney]

To get back to the thread. I've written a few, mostly multi-part romances here on Lit, and they have been well-received. But I don't want to get stuck in a groove, I want to tackle new things, try writing in new ways. Over the past year I've tried to push my writing boundaries re BDSM, and most have been poorly-received in terms of scores, especially my latest, 'Burka'.

This actually took much longer to write, and caused me more blood, sweat and tears, than any earlier piece. I know that it's technically better than most of what I'd posted here before. I am a (rather mature) postgrad creative writing university student. I actively STUDY how to become a better writer technically - well, try to!

But this tale has bombed on Lit, with lower scores by a long measure than anything else I've written.

That won't stop me exploring uncomfortable things further. I'm not here to win competitions: I only compete with myself.

But my experience has certainly been that romance with good sex in it is more popular with Lit readers, than me trying to push uncomfortable boundaries.

I guess I see myself as the equivalent of an artisan chef, always trying new ways. If I wanted to own a chain of fast food joints, I'd find a successful formula and copy it faithfully every time.

But where's the fun in that?

I guess I can see the joy and benefit of both. You can build up a readership and maybe a market for profit by being predictable (at least under a name, nom de plume,) and that in itself, outside of creativity, can be very satisfying. On the other hand, the creative soul needs to stretch, to explore. How dull to never do that, and maybe for some of us, it's impossible not to do. It's impossible for us not to let the mind go further ... to reach.

I think you just need two names. You, personally, are writing to two different audiences for the most part. I like both your areas, and I can see your 'voice' in both, but the average Lit reader, like most readers, comes to expect something particular when they see an author. (Except SR, he manages to be allowed to have a broad brush. )

 

[Rubyswallows]

To get back to the thread. I've written a few, mostly multi-part romances here on Lit, and they have been well-received. But I don't want to get stuck in a groove, I want to tackle new things, try writing in new ways. Over the past year I've tried to push my writing boundaries re BDSM, and most have been poorly-received in terms of scores, especially my latest, 'Burka'.

This actually took much longer to write, and caused me more blood, sweat and tears, than any earlier piece. I know that it's technically better than most of what I'd posted here before. I am a (rather mature) postgrad creative writing university student. I actively STUDY how to become a better writer technically - well, try to!

But this tale has bombed on Lit, with lower scores by a long measure than anything else I've written.

That won't stop me exploring uncomfortable things further. I'm not here to win competitions: I only compete with myself.

But my experience has certainly been that romance with good sex in it is more popular with Lit readers, than me trying to push uncomfortable boundaries.

I guess I see myself as the equivalent of an artisan chef, always trying new ways. If I wanted to own a chain of fast food joints, I'd find a successful formula and copy it faithfully every time.

But where's the fun in that?

Who wants to eat PB&J every day for the rest of their life?

 

[Scotsman69]

Thank you Ruby and driphoney, for posting here and on my story.

I have thought about using different names for different types of stories, but fuck it, they are all MY stories. I am not writing for the lowest common deniminator.

 

[Scotsman69]

Denominator, sorry...

 

[Firebrain]

I would expect an erotic novel to include a level of intimacy. That isn't fluffy-hearts-and-poetry stuff but just general people-feelings, good and bad (and there will be some emotion, somewhere, in a novel; you've got no story otherwise). Some of that feeling is going to get romantic in some sense if you're talking about sex.

I'm writing a similar novel (posted in my sig); there's sex along with politics, relationships, betrayal, all that stuff. It is a love story of sorts but it isn't traditionally romantic. A lot of the feeling is cold.

 

[Auden James]

Romance vs Eroticism

Well, I for one hate predictability in writing. I mean, honestly, what's the point in reading something where you already know from the start how it's going to end and what'll be happening on the way to there. Now at least the commercially branded 'Romance Novel' (think of Harlequin) is all that: sickly sweet, kitschy, unrealistic (and most often utterly implausible), unimaginative and predictable.

Hence, for the notion that any erotic novel would need to be, in fact, a romance novel (at heart), I would never ever have started reading any 'erotic novel' at all!

Thus to my mind there doesn't exist any causality between romance and eroticism...

 

[Scotsman69]

Romance can mean a great deal more than the crap produced by Harlequin and Mills and Boone. Readers should not assume that such tawdry publishing houses have a monopoly of the term romance.

In fact the formulaic crap they publish is hardly writing at all. They tell the author the script and all the writer does is fill in with different names.

By complete contrast, if you look under romance on Lit, (try the top lists) you will find some remarkably powerful and well-written erotica.

Of course there are other categories of erotica, but anyone who dismisses romance is dismissing a lot of great erotic writing.

 

[Auden James]

Missing out ... something?

Hey, Scotsman69, so I take you at your word and I want to ask you to recommend me some examples of (supposed to be) great romance stories! And, of course, you can name your own stories, too. Just tell me what you think is your own favourite story that you or someone else has written ... then we could see whether your statement of 'powerful and well-written' romance is more than mere privat sense.

 

[Epmd607]

What happens when you get a dirty erotic, non-romantic sex scene in a Romantic novel? The description of the sex is really where the conflict is. How will the intimacy be described? I think there's a real difference in romantic sex scenes and erotic -- the writer's either describing feelings or describing sensations. A novel of thoughts and feelings vs. a novel of sensations.

 

[Scotsman69]

Sorry, I've been busy (moving to stay on the other side of the world for a couple of months), so I've neglecled this thread temporarily.

OK, AJ and Epmd, let me blow my own trumpet. I reckon my long 5-part 'Melanie' story is both romantic, and contains some real down-and-dirty sex. Try it.