Do you honestly like women?

[Guest]

Haven't been sleeping, so I have been reading.

When I read some stories I get the feeling that the author doesn't particularly like/respect women. Sure, they're great to screw or useful for various sexual servicing, but other than that they are not very important.

I know that the other extreme exists, it just doesn't scream at me as loudly, I guess.

Question: do you authors honestly like at least some of the women in your stories (when appropriate)? Or are they just sexual participants that don't have greater worth?

b

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I suppose you're asking the men, but I'll butt in anyway.

Yes, I like the women in my stories. Most of them are braver and more into taking initiative than I am. I wish I was more like that.

 

[bridgeburner]

I think answering that question depends a great deal on which stories and authors you're talking about.

 

[medjay]

The women in almost all my stories are strong, dominant characters. (That's also how I like my women in real life )

But I do think a lot of people (guys in particular) might use this as an outlet for any pent up anger and misogynistic tendencies. Usually, I see these stories coming a mile away and avoid them. To me it's just not sexy.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I usually hit the back-button as soon as I read a word like "slut", "whore" or "bitch".

Such misogyni turns me off.


(Wow! I used a 4-syllable word in a sentence!)

 

[jfinn]

It's funny that you've brought this up. I've been talking to a writer from another site about this. He's doing a series based on a story from another author (with his permission). I really admire my friend's other work, but I absolutely detested the original story when I'd read it some time ago. So I wasn't exactly thrilled about reading the new edition even if the author was someone I normally enjoy.

But I had to read it because he's a friend, right? I'm really glad I did, the story is wonderful even though he stuck to the basics of the original tale. Both stories btw are gramatically accurate and both writers are very compelling storytellers, but still, I hated one and love the other. So I wrote my friend and told him this and said I couldn't quite figure out why I like his so much better.

And basically Bridget, he said what you did. That the first story, while interesting (to him LOL) used women as sex machines and never attempted to make them remotely human, let alone interesting. On the other hand my friend said he really liked the female characters in his stories and cared what happened to them.

I think that bridgeburner is right, it does depend on the author and the story. If your object is just to have a character there as a vehicle for a purely physical fantasy or particularily a fetish, you probably aren't particularly attached to your people, male or female. But if your trying to engage the readers emotions then you're going to invest more time and care in creating charaters that can attract a reader and it follows that you'd like them yourself.

Jayne

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I do like the women in my stories...however, some female characters are more developed characters, some are plot devices and some are present for some other reason.

To turn it around, I sometimes use men the way you metion women being used...but I'm only thinking of one or two examples out of 20 submissions.

 

[gauchecritic]

I have to agree that quite a lot of the women characters are just there to be fucked.

Hopefully I strike a balance in my stories between what the female versus(?) male needs.

My latest Danny, Grandma and me has a female protagonist and for some reason (the character taking on a life of her own) I went to great pains to have her seeing men as just there to be fucked.

Probably one of my strongest and favourite characters for that reason.

Gauche

 

[gauchecritic]

PS

Still swooning Bridget.

Gauche

 

[BigTexan]

I like women. Oh hell, I love women I don't consider my wife to be just a hole where I put my sperm. She is a wonderful person. I try to make my characters the same. If you choose to read my one erotic story posted here then I hope you don't feel I intended to demean women with my writing.

But I know what you mean. There are more than their share of stories here by men who, as I read the first two sentences of their stories before back clicking, strike me as just two steps beyond psychotic. And like you, I don't typically like stories that use words demeaning to women.

As far as slut goes, I have seen some stories where that word was used but the woman wasn't being objectified. An example would be Ray Dario's "Station Slut" story. In that story I didn't feel like the woman was just a sex machine. Well okay she really was a sex machine but not in that way. I felt like she was a fully developed character with needs and desires and a personality.

I hope Ray doesn't mind me using his story as an example. It was just one that jumped to mind when I read this thread.

BigTexan

 

[Guest]

back or bomb

I usually hit the back-button as soon as I read a word like "slut", "whore" or "bitch".

Such misogyni turns me off.


(Wow! I used a 4-syllable word in a sentence!)

Yes, I hit the back button too...

What brought this to the forefront of my mind is that I read a very highly rated story in erotic couplings that was not erotic to me at all because it was so denigrating to the female character in particular and to women in general...

Now, I understand that some men and women get off on this, but it really appalled me that the story is so seemingly popular.

And I'm sure that the author would probably just tell me that I am a jealous whining b*tch.

and jfinn- you hit the nail on the head!

 

[ronde]

I more female friends than male, and I try to write my female characters as I see my female friends. They're people who use their intelligence, have hopes for themselves and others, and have feelings that get hurt. While usually smaller in stature, their personalities are equally as strong as those of my male characters.

I believe most women have these traits, and that writing about them in this way is a reflection of real life. Realism is very important to me, and I could not write a charicature of women, as do some authors, anymore than I could write all men as tall, muscled athletic types.

Some of my secondary characters are defined only enough to fit in their part of the story, but I still try to give them a personality that could be true to life.

 

[M.A.Thompson]

One of the joys for me in creating the female characters who exist within the stories I post her at Lit is falling in love with them. I suppose it is the type of story I write (love stories, mostly), but if I can’t love them, than how can I expect my male characters, or my readers for that matter, to also.

Not only do I like women, I love them; adore them. I think my love and admiration of women comes though clearly in my stories. I think that is also why the small but loyal fan base who support me with their feedback each new story appears to be all female.

 

[DVS]

Oh!

.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Realism is very important to me, and I could not write a charicature of women, as do some authors, anymore than I could write all men as tall, muscled athletic types.

Aren't my cheeks red... my heroes are usually tall, muscled guys with big dicks.

 

[karmadog]

...

 

[Octavian]

Misogyny

In common with some other contributors to this thread, nothing turns me off quicker than reading a story where once the characters are having sex the man, starts calling the woman, a slut, a whore, a bitch or anything else equally unsavoury.

Funnily enough, in my own story, the female character refers to herself in this manner on one occasion, and it is her husband who tells her otherwise.

Like M A Thompson I think I was in love with my fictional female character when I wrote this story. And you cannot use such language about people you love.
I would also point out that not all his feedback comes from females. He has at least one male fan.

Octavian
Bearer of the Silver Rose

A Modern Love Story

 

[Guest]

dominating vs degrading

The women in my stories do get into submissive situations. But, I like to develop the personality before hand, so they are 3 dimensional people. Then, they aren't just sexual meat getting used. Well, most of the time they aren't.

No, I'm not trying to defend my writing. I'm not going to change how I write. I write about dominant men and submissive women. That is also how I live. I do tone it down a bit, in real life , but somebody somewhere said "write what you know." So I do.

DVS-

I have to admit that one of your stories is the only foray I have made into BDSM reading. I actually finished the story (couple at a party, woman "shows her butt" and then gets spanked in the pool house) because you wrote it. I am sure there was an odd expression on my face, though.

Yes, there was submission and dominance. But I never got the feeling that you, or the main chracter, hated her or deemed her worthless. Just the opposite was true: the affection between the two shone through. And with her behaviour, I think I would have smacked her.

b

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This is a very interesting subject, and has to do with the way men and women view sex and love overall.

It's well known that most men will stick their dicks into just about anything they see. Most women--maybe all women--cannot understand how men can be so horribly indiscriminate. "How could you sleep with her, she's so stupid/silly/slutty/young/old" whatever.

Men feel sexual desire on a very physical level. The fantasy of running into some stranger and just fucking her right there is the archetypical male fantasy. I think very few women would find this acvceptable. They want to know more about the person. Men, especially young men, don't really care about that. Sad to say, all it usually takes is a "yes" to bed a man.

So that's one reason why men's stories often ignore women's characters or personalities. It's not important to men.

As to misogyny in porn, I think that has to do with men's desire too. I really don't think women appreciate the effect they can have on men. They'll put on some clothes they think look "cute", and to men they'll just look devastatingly sexy. Those howls and moans we used to see in cartoons when a woman walks by a bunch of men are not that far off the mark. A man can literally ache with desire. Women can cause men real physical pain as well as mental pain.

So how does a man react to this? How does he handle these overwhelming feelings a woman can elicit from him? I think a lot of time it comes out in violence, in hatred, in resentment. When a man calls a woman a "whore" he's not implying that she trades sex for money, he means that she's too sexy; she's a tease. What's the male fantasy? Power over women. Why does he want power over someone he's already stronger than? What's he trying to master? It's his own desire. He wants to control the object of his desire.

I think this has a lot to do with how we see women portrayed in porn. I also think it explains a lot of BDSM behavior, which is all about control.

You women drive us crazy.


---dr.M.

 

[BigTexan]

Reading this thread I just thought of something.

I may very well write a story where a character did all of the things we are discussing. If it was true to the character then I don't think it would be wrong. But the character would certainly be either a bad guy or a secondary character with severe personality flaws.

However, as a narrator in a third person POV story I would never use this language.

BigTexan

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Is this what we've come to? "A lot of my friends are women?" For Christ's sake.
Do you like men? Do you like Buddhists? Do you like Navajos? Do you like generalities?

How about if instead of calling a woman a "slut" in a story I just call her an "asshole"? Will you still read it? Or does that make me anti-woman?


---dr.M.

 

[BigTexan]

It's well known that most men will stick their dicks into just about anything they see.
---dr.M.

Dr. M. That is quite possibly the most degrading sexist statement I've seen here at lit! It's a horrid and inaccurate generalization.

Had you said "some" instead of "most" I wouldn't have blinked an eye, but to say "most men" is just plain wrong. It isn't true. It's a sick stereotype that demeans men.

Sorry, but I find it objectionable, so I'm here objecting!

BigTexan

 

[Guest]

control

So how does a man react to this? How does he handle these overwhelming feelings a woman can elicit from him? I think a lot of time it comes out in violence, in hatred, in resentment. When a man calls a woman a "whore" he's not implying that she trades sex for money, he means that she's too sexy; she's a tease. What's the male fantasy? Power over women. Why does he want power over someone he's already stronger than? What's he trying to master? It's his own desire. He wants to control the object of his desire.

I think this has a lot to do with how we see women portrayed in porn. I also think it explains a lot of BDSM behavior, which is all about control.

You women drive us crazy.

I am interested in is the concept that men"handle" overwhelming feelings with "violence, hatred and resentment". This disturbs me.

No one can make someone feel anything. My feelings are my responsibility. While my kids' behavior may irritate me, it is my choice as to whether I will become angry or lose my temper. Yes, it is my responsibility to deal with their behavior, but sometimes it is just kids being kids and I need to deal with my emotions.

Unless you are willing to concede that men are unable to control their emotions, I am unwilling to accept as reasonable any of these responses. I am not saying they have to control their initial reaction, just their chosen response.

It seems that these responses are men projecting their self-hatred and blame for their lack of control onto women.

b

and, no, I am not a feminist

 

[DVS]

Re: dominating vs degrading

.

 

[Chicklet]

I have a lot of stories, to say the least. In some of them, the female is the antagonist; in others, it's the guy. I tend to pit them against each other, because a lot of my experiences in real life are like that.

Is your question do we respect women in general or do we respect our slutty female characters? I like women a LOT in general. Do I respect my slutty characters? No. If I did, I probably wouldn't be able to write them as well.

Chicklet