Do women really want a stable life

[easyg]

I am totally pissed off and fed up right now but I have to ask this question. Is there anywhere in this country where women do not simply play guys off each other to get what they want? Is there a shortage of women and an overwhelming supply of men such that women feal they have a right to play games and we will just put up with it. It's either that or I am just a really bad judge of character, fully insane or believe in outdated standard of what relationships are really about.
It seems like everywhere I go the only goal of a woman is to make men compete for them so they can screw with you as they wish, what the hell is that.
I have an acquaintance that has preached the "welcome matt theory to women" which some of you may not know but the sad thing is ---- he never goes a day without. As explained to me by him is that you show a woman that you care and she will use you like a rug but if you show her you don't give a crap and she will do anything you want. He says " your mistake is that you try to be what she wants you to be and I'm what they can't have". I say "dude, your an asshole to every woman you meet" and he says " that's what they respect because they know they can't fuck with you" why do you think I get treated with respect and with you they expect to get treated". This mentallity is totally outside everything I was brought up with yet he is burried with women. I feel for those that find his mentality as the answer but at the same time I have realized that, some women, treat men the same way, they just go about it a different way to get what they want. I know men can treat women like crap and I know that women can treat men like crap, I just want to know how you find those that want more out of it than that.

 

[Guest]

your friend is somewhat right. However, don't give up on your values. There must be ( I hope ) at least a few girls who are different. I know what you're talking about since that's mostly the reason I am still a 21 yrs old virgin.

don't worry too much about it.

 

[MissTaken]

Now, this may sound a bit cold, but as a woman who is feeling pretty used right now, I have to give you my two cents.

Your friend sounds like a jerk. But, if he has all the women, are these the sort of women you would want to have? If they are, then follow his advice.

Then, you may be the victim of poor judgement. God knows, there are many of us who are.

Finding the right partner takes time, patience and can't be done by making yourself someone you aren't. There are men and women who appreciate the traditional modes of relationships.

I also have to say that you aren't going to find your partner by trying to generalize women. We are all individuals and cannot be categorized or lumped together because of our gender.

I feel for you and do understand your frustration.

Be well,

Miss T

 

[easyg]

He is a friend of mine, in a sense yes, but for sure I don't even pretend to play into that theory on women. I personally find it hard to figure out how he can live with himself but I guess what amazes me is that he always has someone or a few that seem to be so in love with him, no, not even close to married and dear lord if he does, it's missery just waiting for a subscription. I swear though, I just don't get it. I had a "girl" "friend" of mine say " look for a woman that's been divorced because that's the only one that will realize what she should have been looking for in the first place". She is divorced and blissfully happily married to one of my best friends now. Geez, what are you supposed to do?

 

[easyg]

I have to reply to misstaken. I'm not trying to generalize, really I'm not. That's why I opened with "pissed and frustrated", I have a few close friends "women", that have been married to buttlicks like the other aquaintance that I spoke of and treats women like crap. One of those girls I was crazy about forever but took a new job about 2 months before she was divorced and wish I could have went back for her but that's just water over the bridge now. It's just so frustrating to seemingly constantly be faced with this game that appears to be a popular thing to play by women and not just men.

 

[easyg]

oh yeah, and he is a jerk. He is a friend but I don't agree with his idiology at all and do give him shit about it regularly because he is now complaining that he would like to get married. Again, that's an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Zidane]

well I do agree on some points, I don't quite understand why most (not all, mind you and this is just from what I've observed) women like ignorant jocks or 'treat-you-like-crap' men and they pass up honest, moral men. Why do they do that? As I've mentioned before in a previous post, I keep getting turned down by girls based purely on my personality and that I'm too nice and better off a friend. Well I don't want to be a friend to EVERY SINGLE WOMAN ON THE PLANET! I want to be that special someone to a woman. Not just a friend! And yet I see girls who say they like me go out with such god awful men, its appalling.

 

[easyg]

Unregistered, if your really a virgin then I commend. I had my first "real" sex when I was in college and it was worth the wait, I thought we were going to get married - unfortunately she decided to cheat on me with someone she didn't know I would find out about, I have many friends you could say. I was brought up to expect meaning out of having sex and not one night stands. Don't take the plunge until it means something to you because if it doesn't it won't be worth remembering. Even though my first time was with someone I was with for several years and she cheated after, I still loved her very much and that never changed.

 

[easyg]

zidane - I can speak, somewhat from both sides of that. I was/sort-of-am the jock type. I was the football captain in high school, the basketball captain, baseball.... the class president blah blah. College, Basically the same thing but It doesn't mean jack in the grand scheme of things. I was your typical small town country boy at heart and dated the cheerleaders (breifly) and such but they were always shallow and back to the same thing. What could they get from you, it's really no different if your the good guy. Now I'm a computer geek, nothing particularly special in the grand scheme of things again - totally different from the good o'l days but yet the same. Trust me, if your the good guy, no matter what side of the fense you look through we all end up in the same boat. we're not flashy enough, were not crazy enough, were to crazy, to outgoing. At least that's the excuses I've heard for cheating. In the end all I ever wanted was to meet the special someone, get married, have kids and have an exciting and interesting life. The funny thing is that damn near all the women from the past that had all those lousy excuses wanted to come back at some point - I don't purchase refurbished merchandise and I'm still asking how you find a quality relationship on the first try where the woman isn't apparently expecting the ability to temporarily change out and were expected to take them back.

 

[Guest]

the thing about women wanting bad boys could be somewhat be explained throught evolutionary and sociological reasons. What I don't understand is why women say they want nice guys, to be treated nicely, etc. when they do not want that. Do they realize they're fooling themselves or they do it on purpose?


It's really sad when women start blaming all men saying that they're all jerks. But, almost all of the ones I met had at least a nice guy helping them, comforting them. I guess nice guys aren't symply considered guys by women.

Still, there's no reason to go against our values. I will respect them no matter what.

 

[sudsy]

I know better than to open threads that are going to be just another "how stupid and mean women are" thread and then damned if I don't open it.

Which might prove I am a stupid woman.

Telling you all you are idiots for assuming every jerk-chasing bimbo is the norm for all of womankind? That's me being mean.

S.

 

[Guest]

Easyg, I have a somewhat similar experience. Before, I used to practice lots of sports, I dressed much nicely and had all the tools to attract women. I am the type who seems serious, rigid, silent when he doesn't talk. That way, many girls were attracted to me. I don't want to seem to cocky, but the majority of the girls in my high school liked me, but that's because they didn't know me. As soon as they talked to me, as soon as they noticed that I smile often when I talk, as soon as they realized I care and want to hear them, as soon as they noticed I treated them well, their interest simply disappeared. I could see it vanishright in front of me.


Now, I changed physically, but things are the same. I guess that things are the way you said. No matter who you are, if you're a nice guy you won't get much. Man, I know so many guys who do not deserve even a girl and because they're slick, do not care about women, treat them badly they get lots of girls.

I've met many players, they all told me more or less the same story. They were young, they fell in love desperately, they got hurt and soon realized that being nice didn't work. It's sad, byt true.

 

[Zidane]

well, I'm not generalizing every woman here, never said I was, but if you look at the facts and the stories and the examples, they all seem to follow a similar thread. Girls want to be treated badly, despite my efforts to be nice to them and uphold my morals with which I was raised with, I'm simply cast aside as simply a 'shoulder to cry on.' when she (in general) gets dumped by another jerk. No offense, but this really rings true with pretty much ALL of the girls I've met.

 

[whspr]

easyg.....

it is refreshing to see a real man on here....someone who isn't
afraid to express his true feelings.....you don't find many men
who do that.....and I'm all about not wanting to feel used...
it goes both ways you see.....good luck in your search

Soft Kisses,
Whspr

 

[Malachi]

Do women really want a stable life?

The extremely non-earthshattering and non-useful (but true) answer is:

Some do, some don't.

One really tricky thing is that some women have been taught to think, (and truly believe) that they want a stable life, but actually don't, or aren't ready for one. Like most people with low self-awareness, they:
A: are bad news
B: will fuck with you, and
C: should generally be avoided if possible.

Aah, but how to avoid them? The beauty of it is, you don't have to. If you obviously offer commitment and stability they will avoid you like the plague!

This makes me feel just *GREAT* every time I'm rejected! (Okay, maybe not, but by this point in my life, it actually cushions the blow a lot).

The other thing is, just because a certain woman wants stability doesn't mean she's going to jump at the first guy who offers it. Quite the contrary. The sad truth is, women will expect *much* more from a 'nice' guy who is willing to commit than from a 'jerk' who will (one way or another) be out of her life in a week. Furthermore, there is an undeniable logic to her way of thinking; she could be 'stuck' with that 'nice' guy for an awfully long time so he'd better be pretty darn great. Also, commitment-minded or not, there is not a woman (or a man, for that matter) in the world who doesn't like some excitement and romance in their life and in their partner.

It's time to face facts, guys. It's harder to win over a woman for something long-term than something short-term, and it ain't because there's necessarily something wrong with women. If you want something bigger and better than a one-night stand, that's your choice, but *in no way* can you expect a woman to fall for you based on that. Furthermore, when a woman is young, she will be even more reluctant to let herself get tied down by someone.

Also, it is critically important that you have many reasons you can present as to why you are serious about the woman you are serious about- and I mean *besides* how she looks, though she will love to hear that, too. Otherwise your attentions will fail to make her feel special. She will know (perhaps accurately) that even though you might be willing to commit, that many, many other women could potentially have caught your eye. Having those many specific reasons in mind is also some insurance for yourself against falling for the wrong woman.

I don't know exactly how serious all you guys are, but the concensus among people I know (male and female) is that 26-28 is the ideal marriageable age for women, younger ones often being too unsure of what they want, and older ones tending towards desperation (assuming they still want to get married and have children). Some women are not going to be serious about relationships until they approach this age, so this could help explain why some of you real young guys are running into a brick wall.

Lastly, to the ladies who are offended by my generalizations:

Yes, we all know that each woman is different, including you.
I'm not married to my ideas. We're just trying to understand things better. If you want to help, we welcome your input. If you want to bitch (I'm not mentioning any names)... Don't you have a man-bashing thread?

-James

 

[Guest]

You know, it's funny that I ran across this thread. Lately, I've been wondering why all the really nice guys I know end up married to the worst bitches on the planet. (I'm a woman, by the way.) I've got three male friends who are married to the most selfish, self-centered, outright evil women I've ever encountered. Actually, they're female versions of easyg's friend.

In fact, I've got a female friend who has the same 'door mat' theory about guys. The worse you treat them, the better they like it. She says, if you treat men like crap, they see you as a challenge and will put effort into "the chase." Once you start looking at them all starry-eyed, it puts them off the scent and suddenly, they're bored and looking over your shoulder at your best friend because she presents a new challenge.

In the end, I think Malachi is on the right track when he says, "Some do, some don't" and the do's and don'ts can be attached to both men and women.

Good luck, easyg.

~Parris

 

[Zidane]

well, with that sad fact Malachi, I'm afraid I'll be 50 and still be single and a virgin. Because the hell am I ever going to stoop low and involve myself in a fling or lose my virginity to someone I really don't have any feelings for. I just wasn't raised up that way.

 

[emma:o)]

i think that instead of these guys trashing and generalizing women they are almost generalizing men like themselves. i think that there are a lot of nice guys out there that are married, together, happy with the person that they are with.


i think that love is something that is not determined by us, our age, our experiences, or anything else.. its in someone elses hands.. its out of our control.. there is a right person out there for us all and apparently the people that have "shit" on you arent the right people for you.. so be patient.. she will come.. when she is supposed to..


just because you are a nice guy doesnt mean that girls dont like you.. you obviously just havent met the right one for you..

dont be down on yourself.. dont try to change to find a woman, you will be much happier with the one that likes you for who you are.

take care.. and be patient


em

 

[MissTaken]

easyg: Thanks for responding here. I think we went over these issues in our pms.

Z and unreg: My guess is that many women your age aren't ready for what you offer. True love and commitment involves and needs friendship. Perhaps you scare the shit out of them?

As emma said, be patient and you will find the one for you. (Or perhaps she will find you.)

 

[Zidane]

how could I ever scare the shit out of someone? :-/

 

[Malachi]

My Very Best Advice (Top Secret!)

This is the best idea I've ever had, and I should really be charging a *lot* of money for it, but I don't want Zidane to be a 50 year old virgin. It doesn't involve sacrificing your integrity or changing who you are. Also, you can't ever let this information leak to any 'jerks,' because it's way too powerful. It came to me in a flash of inspiration when I was 20. Since then I have never stayed single for twelve months in a row. It's simply this:

Learn how to play the guitar. If you can sing OK, you don't need to play well at all. You just need to be able to accompany yourself. It should only take a few months of practice to be able to learn to use the few simple chords that you'll need. Write a song or two, something catchy and something romantic. Or learn them. Learn 'Kathy's Song,' and 'April Come She Will,' by Simon and Garfunkel, and something by the Beatles. Just work on a couple of songs, especially at first. You'd be surprised how little talent it takes to make this work. Also, it's actually pretty interesting and fun.

Ideally you would be in college, or some living situation where you would see the woman you were interested in occasionally and could play for her in a situation where it seemed fairly spontaneous (or, at the least, not extremely contrived). My second serious girlfriend came right into my dorm room while I was playing and humming, and sat down, even though previously we had seen each other rarely and casually. My ex-wife had some interest in me when we met, but after I played and sang for her (in a group of several people) her interest and attraction suddenly and mysteriously shifted to a much higher gear. It honestly doesn't seem to matter very much whether you play well. You will generate interest where there was none, and where there was interest you will 'seal the deal.' The usefulness of this is limited to two or three sessions. After that it is boring old news, but you've already gotten all the use out of it that you need. After the second time, play only on request.

This has never failed to work heavily in my favor, and has had an influence on the beginnings of all my relationships since. Just the *idea* that you play is appealing, even before they hear you. Remember to seriously (but not *constantly*) downplay your abilities, especially if you really are bad (like I am). Even if you totally suck, your audience will be impressed by your willingness to perform and potentially embarass yourself. This particular kind of confidence weighs very heavily with women.

Any questions?

-J

 

[Guest]

There are a lot of nice women out there looking for a nice guy. Someone who will love them for who they are. It takes time to get to really know a person. Don't let yourself get too serious about someone based only on their looks. It's what's inside that person; the person that they really are that matters. That's who you should be attracted too and falling in love with.

So if they are shallow and only after you for material things then you should know that before you fall to hard for them. Even if she's a knock out you wouldn't really want to spend the rest of your life with her, would you?

Sometimes it takes awhile to find that special person. Be patient. Make sure you've both had time to have "your experiences" with others so you will have no regrets about getting tied down too young.

On your comment about women coming back later and trying to get back with you. Maybe they just needed time to grow a little first. Don't be so quick to turn them down. If you liked them before, why not now? Give it a try, just take it slow. Sometimes the best loves are the ones you have a second chance with. That I know from experience.

Good luck to all of you looking for love.........Rose

 

[Malachi]

I agree

I agree with Rose (unregistered), specifically about considering the possibility of getting back with one of your exes. It is very easy for someone to be too young, too naive, or too inexperienced to realize what they want or what they have. Sometimes the right person simply comes along at the wrong time.

Assuming that you are potentially looking forward to a long future, it is truly better for her to have seen what's out there and come back with the knowledge that you are what she wants than for her to spend her whole life with you wondering what she might have missed.

There is one of my exes I would definitely consider getting back with if she were willing, (and if she wasn't a lesbian) even though she cheated on me about eight years ago. She painfully regretted her actions ever since and I'm sure she would never make the same mistake again.

In life, it is sometimes not possible to reach our destination by the straghtest path.

-James

 

[Gamelover221]

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents since I've decided to actively post instead of just browse. I've personally heard that the best way to ahve a lasting relationship is to be "friends first". I'm a master of that part as everyone absolutely loves to have me as a friend. The trick (and the part most people my age of early 20's) has yet to master is taking a relationship out of the friend stage and into something more.

What women do want is to be taken care of and feel secure, but what they don't want is simply a "big brother". Girls need some sort of excitement, danger, or mystery aka the elusive "spark". Without a "spark", you will be taken for granted and used for what you have to offer, but they are never willing to give you that further level of comfort and intamacy that you desire.

What happened in my case was that I became her best friend that she always called to have around and do things with or to talk to when she had problems, but after a while she started going out with other people and lost any romantic interest in myself. There was a lot more to this story that I'm not going into, but let me say this. After the Christmas break (in which I only called her once and didn't write at all), she was extatic to have me back. I swear she literally jumped on me the first time she saw me. Sometimes you have to distance yourself from someone or at least make yourself harder to get. You know everyone says we don't really miss the things that are important to us until they are gone? Well make yourself scarce for a while then see how important you really were to the girl.

 

[Guest]

thanks for the advices, the guys' perspective is very interesting.

The girls in this thread shifted the focus on something else, they shifted it on finding a mate, which is not the purpose of this thread. This was about nice guys and the fact that they have to suffer much more than the others to get the same things. It's sad and ironic at the same time.
Almost every time I tried to discuss this with a girl, they always shifted the focus like all the girls in this thread did. In my life I have met only 3 girls who were honest enough to tell me that "nice guys finish last". Althought, all 3 of them were more or less clueless on the reasons of this phenomenon.


Game Lover is absolutely right about the distance and about the spark. But, what can this spark be? In Gamelover's case, it's distance, in Malachi's situation, it was playing the guitar. Any more advices or ideas?