Do we want the Armed Forces to interpret the Constitution?

[pecksniff]

Some RWs have recently argued so, in the context of all this civil war talk, on the grounds that military personnel swear their oath to the Constitution, not the government, and cannot carry out an illegal order. But it would be a very bad thing for the United States Armed Forces to be divided into two or more factions of generals and admirals, each holding to its own interpretation of what the Constitution requires in present circumstances. That would be the making of a real civil war, with American personnel and hardware on both (or more) sides.

 

[WillJ8787]

Some RWs have recently argued so, in the context of all this civil war talk, on the grounds that military personnel swear their oath to the Constitution, not the government, and cannot carry out an illegal order. But it would be a very bad thing for the United States Armed Forces to be divided into two or more factions of generals and admirals, each holding to its own interpretation of what the Constitution requires in present circumstances. That would be the making of a real civil war, with American personnel and hardware on both (or more) sides.

Nope....follow orders unless it is a clear violation of the Constitution...which should be conveyed via the chain of command so again....follow orders.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Nope....follow orders unless it is a clear violation of the Constitution...which should be conveyed via the chain of command so again....follow orders.

Isn't that "interpreting the Constitution?"

 

[bellisarius]

Isn't that "interpreting the Constitution?"

Sure sounds like it to me.

 

[phrodeau]

Trump wanted to hang a few traitors. Me, I’d be OK with tar and feathers for them.

 

[WillJ8787]

Isn't that "interpreting the Constitution?"

Nope..."grunts" are not trained to interpret. We have a few grunts here and clearly their interpretations are consistently incorrect.

High level military folks are trained and actually know what they can and can't do....they also know how to get guidance on legal matters regarding constitutionality.

It is why they know, and have said, they will not settle election disputes or any domestic internal matters....they know the Constitution.

It is why you folks think Miley is a traitor...he isn't.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Nope..."grunts" are not trained to interpret. We have a few grunts here and clearly their interpretations are consistently incorrect.

High level military folks are trained and actually know what they can and can't do....they also know how to get guidance on legal matters regarding constitutionality.

It is why they know, and have said, they will not settle election disputes or any domestic internal matters....they know the Constitution.

It is why you folks think Miley is a traitor...he isn't.

Each solder takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. How do they do that if they don't know what it is?

 

[WillJ8787]

Each solder takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. How do they do that if they don't know what it is?

By following orders.

 

[CornusKousa]

Nope....follow orders unless it is a clear violation of the Constitution...which should be conveyed via the chain of command so again....follow orders.

That's not how that works comrade.

"Just following orders" is something you're EXPLICITLY taught in basic training is NOT a good thing and won't ever fly.

We watched many hours of the Nuremburg trials while polishing floors on Sunday evenings, to drive home the message, "just follow orders" isn't how things work in the US military.

You SUPER don't know what you're talking about here.

Nope..."grunts" are not trained to interpret. We have a few grunts here and clearly their interpretations are consistently incorrect.

Any examples??

 

[Bud_Spencer]

By following orders.

Orders are not the same thing as the Constitution.

 

[CornusKousa]

By following orders.

That's not how the US military works.

Hollywood has lied to you.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That's not how that works comrade.

"Just following orders" is something you're EXPLICITLY taught in basic training is NOT a good thing and won't ever fly.

We watched many hours of the Nuremburg trials, to drive home the message, "just follow orders" isn't how things work in the US military.

You SUPER don't know what you're talking about here.



Any examples??

We still haven't emptied Gitmo so clearly when you have teens and early twentie somethings and brainwash them they follow orders.

 

[WillJ8787]

That's not how that works comrade.

"Just following orders" is something you're EXPLICITLY taught in basic training is NOT a good thing and won't ever fly.

We watched many hours of the Nuremburg trials, to drive home the message, "just follow orders" isn't how things work in the US military.

You SUPER don't know what you're talking about here.



Any examples??

German soldiers did not have a Constitutional system and I'm fairly certain that many soldiers, officers and other military folks knew at some point that they would face worse than a court martial if they didn't do Hitler and the Nazis biding....by the time the realized this it was too late.

Something, us sane folks were warning you all about with 45....that was the road he was heading down.

The US military.is an intact, functioning organization...the Germany military was not.

 

[CornusKousa]

German soldiers did not have a Constitutional system and I'm fairly certain that many soldiers, officers and other military folks knew at some point that they would face worse than a court martial if they didn't do Hitler and the Nazis biding....by the time the realized this it was too late.

Cool story.

Here in the USA though along with basic military bearing one of the first things you're taught in basic/boot is your legal obligations, rights and limitations as servicemember in the US military.

You even take a written test you have to pass before you can continue training. It includes everything about the Geneva conventions, what you can and can't do in a combat zone, martial law and your obligation as a soldier should you be called upon for such a task. etc. etc.

And a major part of that which is driven home is that "Just follow orders" is bull-fucking shit and is not any sort of defense for following illegal orders or doing any war crimes.

If your CoC gives you an illegal order you tell them to pound fuckin' sand.... tactfully of course, but you still refuse and you sort it out in court. If it winds up in court fight it in court on your terms, don't ever "just follow orders" because you'll go to prison for that. Because YOU the individual will be held accountable just like the baddies in the Nuremburg trials.

Something, us sane folks were warning you all about with 45....that was the road he was heading down.

No, that was the insane folks pushing that. 45 has absolutely nothing to do with this.

The US military.is an intact, functioning organization...the Germany military was not.

WHAT??? LOL.... dude they almost won, the military of Nazi Germany was one of the greatest military powers of all time, it was a very well functioning organization that conquered and could have held Europe. If it had not been for AH's over commitment to the eastern front, it's almost certain he would have been able to hold what he had already gotten and the European cmpaign of WWII would have almost certainly ended very differently for us.

They were the baddies, but clusterfuck chump of a military they were absolutely not. They were very obviously HIGHLY functional and extremely effective both technologically and militarily.

 

[WillJ8787]

Cool story.

Here in the USA though along with basic military bearing one of the first things you're taught in basic/boot is your legal obligations, rights and limitations as servicemember in the US military.

You even take a written test you have to pass before you can continue training. It includes everything about the Geneva conventions, what you can and can't do in a combat zone, martial law and your obligation as a soldier should you be called upon for such a task. etc. etc.

And a major part of that which is driven home is that "Just follow orders" is bull-fucking shit and is not any sort of defense for following illegal orders or doing any war crimes.

If your CoC gives you an illegal order you tell them to pound fuckin' sand.... tactfully of course, but you still refuse and you sort it out in court. If it winds up in court fight it in court on your terms, don't ever "just follow orders" because you'll go to prison for that. Because YOU the individual will be held accountable just like the baddies in the Nuremburg trials.




No, that was the insane folks pushing that. 45 has absolutely nothing to do with this.



WHAT??? LOL.... dude they almost won, the military of Nazi Germany was one of the greatest military powers of all time, it was a very well functioning organization that conquered and could have held Europe. If it had not been for AH's over commitment to the eastern front, it's almost certain he would have been able to hold what he had already gotten and the European side of WWII would have almost certainly ended very differently.

Intact legally, under a Constitution dude...not as a fighting Force.

The rest of what you said sound just like what I said.

 

[WillJ8787]

...and we want them/you to follow orders so that they don't get it in their heads to revolt because of the easy ability enemies of the US have to convince them, via media and social media, that their govt needs to be overthrown.

I.E, the rich sauce you traitors have been pushing.

 

[CornusKousa]

Intact legally, under a Constitution dude...not as a fighting Force.

Not really relevant to military conduct.

The rest of what you said sound just like what I said.

It's directly in contradiction to everything I quoted you saying here.

By following orders.

Nope..."grunts" are not trained to interpret. We have a few grunts here and clearly their interpretations are consistently incorrect.
.

^^ never did provide an example of incorrect interpretation here... much less enough to establish any sort of consistency doing so.

Nope....follow orders unless it is a clear violation of the Constitution...which should be conveyed via the chain of command so again....follow orders.

 

[CornusKousa]

...and we want them/you to follow orders so that they don't get it in their heads to revolt because of the easy ability enemies of the US have to convince them, via media and social media, that their govt needs to be overthrown.

I.E, the rich sauce you traitors have been pushing.

Dude.... social media and the mainstream media are almost ENTIRELY controlled by (D) leftist.

LOL...

 

[CornusKousa]

We still haven't emptied Gitmo so clearly when you have teens and early twentie somethings and brainwash them they follow orders.

Not at all.

GITMO is fine, those aren't US citizens.

And even when things went wrong and POW's were abused outside of the law? The criminals were brought to justice under UCMJ.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Not at all.

GITMO is fine, those aren't US citizens.

And even when things went wrong and POW's were abused outside of the law? The criminals were brought to justice under UCMJ.

Gitmo is not fine, it is unconstitutional. The Constitution applies to every human being on the fucking planet. When people were abused outside the law not everybody was brought to justice as far as I know neither Bush or Obama are in jail. Do you have info I don't since both are war criminals, Obama less so but still.

 

[pecksniff]

Cool story.

Here in the USA though along with basic military bearing one of the first things you're taught in basic/boot is your legal obligations, rights and limitations as servicemember in the US military.

You even take a written test you have to pass before you can continue training. It includes everything about the Geneva conventions, what you can and can't do in a combat zone, martial law and your obligation as a soldier should you be called upon for such a task. etc. etc.

And a major part of that which is driven home is that "Just follow orders" is bull-fucking shit and is not any sort of defense for following illegal orders or doing any war crimes.

If your CoC gives you an illegal order you tell them to pound fuckin' sand.... tactfully of course, but you still refuse and you sort it out in court. If it winds up in court fight it in court on your terms, don't ever "just follow orders" because you'll go to prison for that. Because YOU the individual will be held accountable just like the baddies in the Nuremburg trials.

So, how does that play out if the grunts are ordered to do the things done in a military coup?

 

[PaxNurgle]

Cornholus causa knows nothing whatsoever about American military training. Don't fall for his stolen-valor bullshit.

He also clearly knows nothing about how the Constitution works, or the system of checks and balances, or basically anything related to how the U.S. government is supposed to work, and I'm not bad mouthing him here believe it or not, as he's made this abundantly clear in his countless troll posts.

 

[CornusKousa]

Cornholus causa knows nothing whatsoever about American military training. Don't fall for his stolen-valor bullshit.

He also clearly knows nothing about how the Constitution works, or the system of checks and balances, or basically anything related to how the U.S. government is supposed to work, and I'm not bad mouthing him here believe it or not, as he's made this abundantly clear in his countless troll posts.

^^ Hot air .... always talking shit.

You got nothing but your anger over the fact that vets, especially the grunts, aren't all that into "progressive" politics.

Not being a commie (D)ick suck who hates the USA as much as you doesn't make any of your lies true.

 

[CornusKousa]

Gitmo is not fine, it is unconstitutional.

Not in any way shape or form... that's why it's fine and has been fine for a very long time.

The Constitution applies to every human being on the fucking planet.

No it doesn't.

Citizenship is a thing, no matter how badly you want to pretend otherwise.

When people were abused outside the law not everybody was brought to justice as far as I know neither Bush or Obama are in jail.

Everyone involved was.

Bush and Obama didn't engage in those crimes.

Do you have info I don't since both are war criminals, Obama less so but still.

Since when?

 

[WillJ8787]

Dude.... social media and the mainstream media are almost ENTIRELY controlled by (D) leftist.

LOL...

Except for the ones you pay attention to...please.