Do they ever get it?

[Whispersecret]

I've thought about registering as someone new, with a sexier name, a gushy personality to go with it, just to see if I could garner a herd of horny males and to see if I could be one of the popular girls. But I think that my true colors would come through eventually, and I wouldn't prove anything except that I am me. So, I've never re-registered.

Now, I do believe other people have. That is the real topic of my thread.

Let's say someone registers as, say, JackSprat, and makes enemies, either quickly or slowly. They tell everyone to fuck off and then they disappear. They come back and register as a different name, thinking things will be different this time. Unfortunately, JackSprat2 ends up just like last time, pissing people off royally.

Do you think that there's ever a point where these people realize that there's something wrong with them? That no matter how many times they attempt to blend in, their strange personalities direct events to an inevitable conclusion? Or do you think they blame it on everyone else and live in a constant state of denial?

[Edited by whispersecret on 11-21-2000 at 10:21 PM]

 

[Dreamer1]

A fair number of my clients live in a constant state of denial and blame others for their actions consistently.
I would have to say if the person is an adult and has demonstrated a continuing pattern of dysfunctional behavior, despite attempts at intervention and help, then my answer is HELL NO, THEY WILL NEVER GET IT!

[Edited by Dreamer1 on 11-21-2000 at 10:28 PM]

 

[Lasher]

Do you think that there's ever a point where these people realize that there's something wrong with them? That no matter how many times they attempt to blend in, their strange personalities direct events to an inevitable conclusion? Or do you think they blame it on everyone else and live in a constant state of denial?

LMAO... I KNOW Patryn/Raven/Athos/Leah/Grey et al. are still floating around here somewhere. If ANYONE is going to be able to answer this question for ya, it's them, er, her.....

Btw, my vote goes to this option from that question: they blame it on everyone else and live in a constant state of denial?

But like I said, we do have someone who's an authority on the subject, we should let her... er, them... er, her... Ahhh, fuck, whatever... answer.

(Btw... I was just wondering if anyone else was as disgusted as I was by the pettiness and vindictive nature she displayed on DCL's thread from earlier?)

 

[Cheyenne]

(Btw... I was just wondering if anyone else was as disgusted as I was by the pettiness and vindictive nature she displayed on DCL's thread from earlier?)

Yes, I was. As soon as I read her first post, before I even saw DCL's initial reaction. If it was empathy she was seeking, she hurt her case.

 

[Laurel]

I think some people have a total blind spot when it comes to their own actions.

Take my sister, please. (*rim shot*)

No, but seriously...My sister has called me countless times over the past two weeks asking to visit. Because I'm trying to get the new site backend online and do all the other site-related stuff in addition to finishing up all my freelance projects before I leave on our trip (and also because I'm pretty sure that she just wants to ask for money), I haven't been in a real big hurry to meet up with her.

Last week, she said she would call me on Tuesday afternoon. It was 3pm when I realized I had to get something to FedEx, so I left. When I returned, I found a rather vicious "fuck you"-type email from her in my inbox.

This week I finally relented. I told her to come over at around 1:30pm Monday. She repeated after me, "Yeah, 1:30pm Monday." Monday comes. 1:30pm comes and goes. 2:30. 3:30. We left to go on our walk at around 4pm, taping a note on the door in case she wandered by. We come back to find the note undisturbed and no messages on our answering machine, no emails.

This morning, she calls up and leaves a message, "Sorry I missed you yesterday...gimme a call...bye..." Like nothing was wrong! No explanation.

So I miss a phone call and I get chewed, but she completely misses meeting up with me - when it's HER idea in the first place - and I'm just supposed to go "oh, okay". And the funny thing is (and the point of this long story) is that I could sit there and break it all down for her - show her the correlation between what she did and what I did and our reactions - and she STILL would not understand. She would still think I was an asshole for not being there for her phone call, and she would still think it was perfectly fine for her to leave me hanging without so much as a phone call.

Most people try to keep the same standards of behavior for themselves as others. I think it's rude when others leave shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot, so I always make an effort to put the cart back in its corral. However, I think some people live in a weird bubble. They will do things that are clearly very rude, but get very angry or be dismayed when you point out their rude behavior to them. However, they'll viciously accuse others of the same rudeness with no sense of irony.

I don't know what whether it's biological or something in the way they were brought up or what. I do know from my experience with my sister that she has ABSOLUTELY NO idea that she's being inconsiderate and hypocritical. She doesn't get it - it's beyond her understanding.

I know this - it drives me fucking crazy dealing with people like that. I had a friend in college like that, and it was a damn short friendship. There's no reasoning with people like that. The best thing to do is just what I intend on doing - decreasing my own stress by not answering my sister's calls till I get back from my trip.

 

[teresafannin]

Good morning, no they never get it.

 

[Silverlily]

Whisper - no, they don't.
Lasher - yes and I was thoroughly disgusted.
Teresa - good morning

(no coffee, can't speak, ugh)

 

[Cheyenne]

Most people try to keep the same standards of behavior for themselves as others. I think it's rude when others leave shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot, so I always make an effort to put the cart back in its corral. However, I think some people live in a weird bubble. They will do things that are clearly very rude, but get very angry or be dismayed when you point out their rude behavior to them. However, they'll viciously accuse others of the same rudeness with no sense of irony.

Excellent description. I have something in my office, in my line of sight when I'm at the computer. It says "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It is there to remind me. Do I forget? Yup. I'm human. I have good and bad days just like everyone else. But I try to remember it and follow it.

 

[Silverlily]

It's funny this thread came up now. On another board I use (yes, there are others out there ), a long-time member reregistered under a different handle. Half-way through this "newcomer's" post, it was obvious as hell who it was and not only had she not gotten nicer, I think she's worse than ever.

<shakes head> It was pathetic really.

 

[April]

Whispersecret, in answer to your first paragraph, yes, I have seriously thought about it. But I won't do it because it's not really me. But I'm still envious.

As for the rest of it, I'm in agreement with the others. Those people will go their whole lives being that way, and always think it's everybody else's fault.

 

[Floating Head]

I no longer make attempts to explain myself to these types of people. I've attempted to be thoughtful, polite, considerate and as aware as I can, but when it comes to people with bad manners and a terminal case of rudeness I have found it totally useless to make attempts to keep them in my life.

They are so unaware of everything that goes on around them. THEY are the center of THEIR universe. They are only aware of what inconveniences them. Not anyone else. And the only way I have found to deal with them is to exclude them from my life as much as possible. I can't even be bothered these days to try and explain myself to them.

Laurel, your predicament with your sister is so typical of people that are UNAWARE. Its doesn't matter what you do to be nice, THEY just don't get it.

Patryn's response on DCL's thread was another of her attempts for attention. A desperate attempt. She was offensive, rude and couldn't have cared less about its impropriety. She lives in TOTAL oblivion to the rest of the world. So WS, I would have to say that NO, they will never realize that its them. It will always be our fault, never theirs.

********

btw Laurel, I always make sure to keep my shopping cart out of peoples way. Its only being considerate.

 

[Unclebill]

I think some people have a total blind spot when it comes to their own actions. ...

Most people try to keep the same standards of behavior for themselves as others. I think it's rude when others leave shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot, so I always make an effort to put the cart back in its corral. ...

Laurel,

I understand exactly how you feel. I've had dealings with people like that and they don't get it. And on the shopping cart, another example is people who walk away leaving their cart blocking an aisle so you can't pass without moving their damned cart.

WS, I think you're right. Many people have a set of standards everyone is required to meet EXCEPT themselves and anyone who doesn't understand their situation is just an asshole; it's never their fault and you're just not a nice person if you don't understand and tolerate their inconsiderate, rude and impudent behavior.

As to the post in response to DCL, I didn't see any significance to it until I read his response. Not knowing enough about what's at work there, I just passed it by. But it did seem a little obdurate.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Reminds me of people who bitch and rant about how bad all the other drivers are, while at the same time they're turning without signalling, cutting somebody off and tailgating the car ahead.

Nope, they just don't get it.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Hecate]

I would assume I usually am a nice person - caring, warm , considerate ... but ..(oh yeah, there had to be a but, right??) I happen to be unaware of hurting others!

How do I know if I am unaware? Not everybody loves me! And I never would do anything to hurt anyone on purpose (well not unless given a mighty good reason anyway) .. so it must happen without me being aware.

Seriously - I assume we all have those days when we are semingly carelss and cold, when we simply can't see the significance of our actions (or non-actions) because we are mentally busy with ourselves, but for most of us it is a passing stage. It happens and as much as I like to think "I'm not like that" - it happens to me too.

If though encountering a repeated "clash of opinions" when in a group I rather quickly start to find greener pastures - damn, I am not having a good time feeling bad about me or others!

Then there are those "groups" you can't just walk away from - those are called "family". I have a GREAT relation to all my close family, but they are having a few annoying habits .. there is no chance those will change - just as won't mine. Then there are those silly things like .. my mom invites me for a coffee cause she thinks she has to - and I go because I think I have to. Neither of us really feel like it and both think the other party should be gratefull - whereas each respective other party is thinking she is doing a favour ... easy to imagine the absurde conversations and fights that result from this . *lol* just to get it straight - we love our little chatters 9 times out of 10, but just that odd 1 time ... *rolling eyes in despair*. Although we have "mentioned" it to each other we still have things like this happening ... and each of us walks away afterwards considering the other inconsiderate and not very appreciative... each of us thinking she is in the right and the other in the wrong whereas neither is but we just don't share the same point of view.

As for "personalities" ... I can understand the desire for a new start if really something awkward has happened, something out of the ordinary that usually isn't your style but that you can't make "undone"... so if you feel and care enough for a group of people to want to be with them, to go through the effort of starting anew... fine with me - I am one to grant second chances in most cases.We all have a "bad day" now and then and are cought "on the wrong leg" at times. But then - that is about it ... blow it again and you are not likely to get another go with me.

Do they get it?
I like to think I do, I like to think I can learn and improve, be open to see things from another angle if shown...
Does everyone?
Not really sure of that.

Fortunately enough I never had this happen to me .. so I assume I wasn't too wrong with my "I would assume I usually am a nice person - caring, warm , considerate ... but..."-theorie.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Something about tragedy, or loss, makes you gentle (after the requisite angry period). I had a bad break-up, oh, about 12 years ago, and I spent the next day walking around as if I were on egg shells in slow motion, hyper-aware of my body moving through space, measuring exactly how softly I could sit down, or how gently I could lift a book. Mostly, I wanted to be kind.

That's how I feel today. And if Leah was being self-serving last night, she at least was right about tragedy reminding us to be empathetic. (And she did apologize and back off the thread, so my argument with her regarding all that is over.)

So, if someone has "no sense of irony", as Lauel put it, and continues on in the face of full disclosure, you can be angry with them, but you also have to be empathetic, I think, and ask "why?" And I think you have to accept that their pain is just as real as yours, and perhaps this is just their way of dealing with it.

I'm not advocating playing the fool, by any means, but perhaps today I can see my way to being more charitable, and understanding.

There's always a line, of course, and those of you with troublesome family members have come to that line many times, I'm sure. I have a line, and I felt it was crossed a bit last night, but that's now water under the bridge, gone, and all I have left this morning is empathy for the trials and tribulations that are real.

 

[Guest]

sexy

Whisper you are sexy! No need to come back more sexier.

Also consider the nature of the site -- erotic fiction: several visitors here sustain more than one character as an ongoing exercise in character writing in interaction with the other members (puppet masters). The example of grey and company might be one, or lasher and purple haze could be another… there was a big thread on this idea back a bit. One should never believe anything they read here and if you do, you are putting your self at risk…gender posing, hidden agendas, lurking, and worse. Just like the germs on a public toilet… a wide variety of florae and fauna and some dangerous at times.

 

[ManOSafety]

My two cents worth

As a teacher of 7th through 10th graders, I can also add that this type of behavior of not realizing that people don't like you because of the way you act starts early too. I have a few students who basically alienate everyone then wonder why no one will sit with them at lunch or why they are always the one's that get in trouble. It's sad.

I often hope that these young people will wake up to what is happening to their lives before it is too late and they are too set in their ways to really change, and in some cases, I do see them make efforts to be "nicer" people, but in other cases...

Oh well, in any case, I agree with DCL that at times you need to be empathetic to the other person, perhaps there is some reason for their actions. And with Hecate that at times, we are the people that are being buttheads (my word, not hers) without realizing that we are.

In the immortal words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"

 

[ShyGuy68]

Fortunately enough I never had this happen to me .. so I assume I wasn't too wrong with my "I would assume I usually am a nice person - caring, warm , considerate ... but..."-theorie.

And you are Hecate!! At least as far as I've experienced!!

 

[Guest]

 

[ShyGuy68]

And Shy I would like to give you a hug... you have been getting some really bad press lately... and I think you an alright kind of guy! So (((HuGS)))))

Ohh I've been getting bad press?? Strangely enough I don't see it that way. But then again, I'm so clueless from time to time! lol

But I want to thank you for the hugs Luscious Lionness!! I for sure ain't going to turn down thoes from a nice woman!!!

 

[Cheri]

Dixon, I like the idea of grace and forgiveness that you intoduced to this thread. Dealing with people who seem unconscionable about others feelings. A prof of mine used to say, you are unable to control the actions of others, just your response to them. It is that realization that gives us freedom and release from the bitterness that can result.
I also agree with everyone who says that some people are so self centered that they are unaware they are hurting not only themselves but others as well. I'd hypothesize that this is because those people believe in their own infallibility. You have to be aware of your capacity to not only make mistakes but consciously watch your actions looking for instances, to see when you hurt others. If you never think of yourself and your actions in that way, how can you identify instances where you did.

 

[Cyan BloodsBane]

Uhm... I have three here... Uhm... Cyan BloodsBane.... DarkAngel..... and Uhm.... BlackIce... but I always let people know that who ever I am using that it is me Cyan speaking... so no one gets confused...

 

[TN_Vixen]

Laurel?

I completely understand about the sister thing. My younger sis has always felt that there are separate rules for her than for anyone else. It is a shame, actually when I think about the disintegration of our relationship because I love her, but she is so completely untrustworthy. She'll pull you into her confidence only to turn around and stab you (me) in the back at the first chance. I have no understanding of her motives other than to get something "over" on me in order to make herself look better or feel better.

She is highly judgemental refuses to take responsibility for her actions when it comes to hurting other members of the family, namely - me. My family tries to get us to make up, but I don't like having people in my life that intentionally try to sabatoge it, so why would I want her?

~sigh

Anyway, I guess I just feel sort of sick inside that what she appears to be is only that... appearances.

 

[Laurel]

Dixon, I like the idea of grace and forgiveness that you intoduced to this thread. Dealing with people who seem unconscionable about others feelings. A prof of mine used to say, you are unable to control the actions of others, just your response to them. It is that realization that gives us freedom and release from the bitterness that can result.

Well said! Dixon's a class act. Learning to not let other people get to you is tough...I still to this day find myself taking the bait before I realize I was being baited. It's easy to get caught on this "He/she MADE me mad/angry/sad!" That's why certain people can take such joy in the misery of others - it's EASY to get our goats because we're all too willing to give away control of our emotions. If we didn't respond to it, they wouldn't play these games. The second we realize that WE can choose to be mad/sad/glad/bad - that WE are in charge of our lives, bodies, and emotions - it makes it easier to let things go. Not easy, but easier.

I completely understand about the sister thing. My younger sis has always felt that there are separate rules for her than for anyone else. It is a shame, actually when I think about the disintegration of our relationship because I love her, but she is so completely untrustworthy. She'll pull you into her confidence only to turn around and stab you (me) in the back at the first chance. I have no understanding of her motives other than to get something "over" on me in order to make herself look better or feel better.

She is highly judgemental refuses to take responsibility for her actions when it comes to hurting other members of the family, namely - me. My family tries to get us to make up, but I don't like having people in my life that intentionally try to sabatoge it, so why would I want her?

Did we grow up in the same family? lol...Recently my sis told me that Dad had been molesting her since around age 12. This gave me some insight into why she plays power games with me all the time - flirting with my boyfriends (even stealing a few), lying, etc. However, it doesn't change the fact that she's a lying manipulative bitch sometimes.

And the fact that she refuses to seek steady professional help for the molestation, that she continues to SEE my dad on a regular basis (I haven't even spoken to the guy in years), continues to drink like a fish and get high (she's an epileptic, so drinking beer and smoking pot aren't the harmless activities they'd be for a normal person) and to forget to take her medications (funny, she'll take every drug except those the doctor prescribes for her) makes it even harder. Our mother is a schizophrenic, and my sis hears voices sometimes - voices criticizing her, saying what a loser she is, etc.

My mom drinks and gets high and forgets to take her medication. I haven't seen her in years because it's too painful for me. She's in the care of the state, and she wanders from hospital to halfway house to the outside world until she has an accident or a public fit and ends up in the hospital again.

A few years ago I got a call from her saying she was in the hospital and that she'd had a stroke. She left no number, and by the time I got a hold of her she'd been moved to a rest care place called Beverly Manor. Turns out she hadn't exactly been upfront with me. She'd been living in these shitty one-room apartments, and her and some "friends" were getting high. Totally fucked and off her meds, she'd taken a fork and stuck it in an electrical socket. The blast had fried her fingers and left a big exit burn on her hip. She was unable to walk for weeks.

I've tried to help my mom so many times. She used money I give her for drugs. She wouldn't stay with any of the programs I've signed her up for. On more than one occasion, she'd run away from these programs, convinced they staff was going to eat her brains or some such thing. So, a few years ago I made a conscious decision to let her go. At the time, I had a low-paying job, was finishing up my degree, and was worn to the bone. I could either continue to try to "help" her and drive myself into the ground, or I could stop supporting her so that I could live. It was the hardest choice I've ever made. It still hurts.

I can see my sister following my mom's path. The sad thing is that she can see it too and it scares her, but she refuses to take charge of her life. She continues to be a flake to everyone who knows her, to quit jobs at random, to drink and smoke her epileptic brain into oblivion. The saddest thing is that she's a very pretty, fairly intelligent girl who COULD succeed but chooses not to because it's too much effort to try to pull herself out of her slump. It's actually easier for her to live in complete misery than to lift a finger towards her own happiness.

You feel bad for people like that, but then again I too had a shitty childhood. I wasn't molested, but Dad put me through the ringer in his own way. And I still do my best to treat people as civilly as possible. I do what's needed to provide for myself. I don't expect others to take care of me.

EVERYONE has problems. NOT EVERYONE inflicts pain on others in response to whatever blows life's dealt them.

So I go back and forth with my sister. Right now, I'm refusing to call her. However, I know that eventually I'll feel bad (after my trip, hopefully) and I'll contact her. I'll try to talk her into helping herself, maybe even let her help me with some of my work in exchange for some money. Then she'll take the money and disappear without doing any of the work. Or if I tell her she'll get paid when the work is done, she'll just disappear without the money. I won't talk to her for a while, and then the cycle will repeat itself. Sad, but true. What can you do? Can't stop caring, unfortunately. Can't do anything to help her either - it's all up to her.

So there you go. I've babbled enough for today. Think I'll go get some work done, lol.