Do sex harassment laws violate worker's rights?

[renard_ruse]

The sex harassment "laws" are so pervasive that they pretty much require everyone to pretend to be asexual when they hit the workplace door (and even afterhours if one is socializing with co-workers). Its gotten so bad that just a flirtateous glance or asking someone out on a date can lead to a lawsuit for millions of dollars. Millions of dollars just for normal, natural human behavior. HAVE WE LOST OUR COLLECTIVE MINDS?

One of the ladies accusing former San Diego mayor Bob Filner of "sex harassment" claims that he "gave her a kiss on the forehead and "touched her nametag"" at a meeting. She's suing for millions of dollars. "Touching a nametag"??? Kind of wierd I suppose, but worth millions of dollars? Seriously? HAVE WE LOST OUR COLLECTIVE MINDS?

We have a "culture" (if you want to call it that) in which the filthiest raunchiest sex jokes and vulgarity are constantly pervasive on television, movies, music, even increasingly in advertising. Children see and hear this constantly, and nobody in the adult world seems to be concerned. Yet, even a slightly off color joke in a workplace, where only adults are around, can lead to a lawsuit for millions and millions of dollars. HAVE WE LOST OUR COLLECTIVE MINDS?

On this Labor Day, I call for a fresh look at the "sex harassment" laws and whether they demand too much of employees to try to be something they are not (asexual) just because they happen to be at work.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Good ole Renard, standing up four-square in support of the "right" to sexually harass someone in the workplace.

How long has it been since you held a job, Renard?

 

[renard_ruse]

Good ole Renard, standing up four-square in support of the "right" to sexually harass someone in the workplace.

How long has it been since you held a job, Renard?

So, you think that ANY flirting or attraction at a workplace should be outlawed by the government?

 

[renard_ruse]

Many people used to find their spouse at work. That very rarely happens these days because the government and courts micromanage every interaction between people anymore.

People don't even realize what we've lost. Go back and watch old TV shows and movies, even from just 20 years ago. People were always flirting at work. They would date and have sex with co-workers all the time. Now, most people don't even dare to admit they find a co-worker attractive for fear of a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

We lost so much as a society because of the loony ideas of a few extremists who want to take happiness and fun away from everyone.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Many people used to find their spouse at work. That very rarely happens these days because the government and courts micromanage every interaction between people anymore.

People don't even realize what we've lost. Go back and watch old TV shows and movies, even from just 20 years ago. People were always flirting at work. They would date and have sex with co-workers all the time. Now, most people don't even dare to admit they find a co-worker attractive for fear of a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

We lost so much as a society because of the loony ideas of a few extremists who want to take happiness and fun away from everyone.

You should go read about what actually constitutes sexual harassment and then come back to talk about it.

 

[renard_ruse]

You should go read about what actually constitutes sexual harassment and then come back to talk about it.

Been to the training. Even glancing at someone can qualify. Not only that, employers generally go beyond the current minimum standards and ban even more stuff to be sure they are compliant.

There has been a chilling effect on workplace flirting and sex, because nobody wants to get sued for millions and millions of dollars over nothing. Its not worth it. Better to pretend to be asexual.

 

[run_silent]

In my wife's work a coworker was told by management he had to remove the picture he took of his wife in a bikini that he took while they were on vacation. There was nothing sexual or provocative about pic. Just a photo of her walking out of the surf in a bikini.

Someone had complained it was sexual harassment.

 

[Sean Renaud]

IT was objectifying women. Perhaps not harassment but certainly degrading.

So, you think that ANY flirting or attraction at a workplace should be outlawed by the government?

Work is for work. I don't know why we let you talk about the football game let alone flirt.

 

[run_silent]

IT was objectifying women. Perhaps not harassment but certainly degrading.



Work is for work. I don't know why we let you talk about the football game let alone flirt.

It was a picture of the woman he loved not some nudie pic calender.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It was a picture of the woman he loved not some nudie pic calender.

Doesn't change the fact that it was a picture of a scantily clad presumably reasonably attractive woman. Still easy to see how women could find it degrading and offensive. It's work, I don't see why people are allowed ANY photos in the office other than professionalism is much more a myth than anything people actually hold themselves to.

 

[run_silent]

Could it be that some of the women in the office did not like being reminded that they couldn't wear a bikini? Objectifying or just plain jealousy?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Sex harassment laws exist to out the fags and tender gender wannabees.

If you wanna seriously frost the galz cake put all your nekkid ladies inside an old briefcase, for your pals to come look at. I learned that trick from my boss Dave. We collected tons of porn, and Dave stored it in an unlocked file cabinet. The guys were always checking it out.

 

[renard_ruse]

Work is for work. I don't know why we let you talk about the football game let alone flirt.

Expecting people to pretend to be asexual at work actually harms productivity.

Why do they have "team building" events (usually code for a party or group trip to Dave and Buster's, etc)? It improves morale.

 

[renard_ruse]

Sex harassment laws exist to out the fags and tender gender wannabees.

If you wanna seriously frost the galz cake put all your nekkid ladies inside an old briefcase, for your pals to come look at. I learned that trick from my boss Dave. We collected tons of porn, and Dave stored it in an unlocked file cabinet. The guys were always checking it out.

Wasn't that on Moonlighting?

 

[sigh]

Many people used to find their spouse at work. That very rarely happens these days because the government and courts micromanage every interaction between people anymore.

People don't even realize what we've lost. Go back and watch old TV shows and movies, even from just 20 years ago. People were always flirting at work. They would date and have sex with co-workers all the time. Now, most people don't even dare to admit they find a co-worker attractive for fear of a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

We lost so much as a society because of the loony ideas of a few extremists who want to take happiness and fun away from everyone.

Do you have any proof of this or are you just making shit up to make your point? If you're relying on anecdotes, I know of several couples who met at work and are currently romantically involved or married.

 

[sigh]

In my wife's work a coworker was told by management he had to remove the picture he took of his wife in a bikini that he took while they were on vacation. There was nothing sexual or provocative about pic. Just a photo of her walking out of the surf in a bikini.

Someone had complained it was sexual harassment.

The company made a bad decision. Therefore it's the government's fault.

 

[badbabysitter]

Many people used to find their spouse at work. That very rarely happens these days because the government and courts micromanage every interaction between people anymore.

People don't even realize what we've lost. Go back and watch old TV shows and movies, even from just 20 years ago. People were always flirting at work. They would date and have sex with co-workers all the time. Now, most people don't even dare to admit they find a co-worker attractive for fear of a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

We lost so much as a society because of the loony ideas of a few extremists who want to take happiness and fun away from everyone.

People still do all the time


nobody at work wanting to date you isnt because of harrassment, it's because of the shit you probably say

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Been to the training. Even glancing at someone can qualify. Not only that, employers generally go beyond the current minimum standards and ban even more stuff to be sure they are compliant.

There has been a chilling effect on workplace flirting and sex, because nobody wants to get sued for millions and millions of dollars over nothing. Its not worth it. Better to pretend to be asexual.

You obviously need to take the training again because as usual, you have zero idea what you're talking about.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Could it be that some of the women in the office did not like being reminded that they couldn't wear a bikini? Objectifying or just plain jealousy?

Oh, yes. Jealousy. That sounds about right. Because there couldn't possibly be any other reason for a woman to not appreciate a photo of someone else in a bikini.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So, you think that ANY flirting or attraction at a workplace should be outlawed by the government?

Did I say that, little man? Did I?



I'll ask you very nicely not to ascribe positions to me. That's the responsibility of AJ, Vetty and Miles. They'll be quite upset if you try and usurp their job.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Could it be that some of the women in the office did not like being reminded that they couldn't wear a bikini? Objectifying or just plain jealousy?

Lets say for the sake of argument that it is jealousy. It doesn't change the fact that you are creating an environment that is non-condusive to work. While this case is clearly sexually objectification it wouldn't ultimately change if you decided to hang your Olympic Gold Medals in in your cubicle and I was jealous that I never won the Gold in the Olympics. Work is for work.

Expecting people to pretend to be asexual at work actually harms productivity.

Why do they have "team building" events (usually code for a party or group trip to Dave and Buster's, etc)? It improves morale.

At work they should be asexual, or fired. It's not my fault if they can't mange to be professional. Team building at Dave n Busters is about comraderie not sex. We did the same thing in the Marines and with my High School Football team and with my Boy Scout troops. I know you think that when boys go camping together they start fucking but that's not how it works in reality.

 

[Wyldfire]

Okay, here's the thing. If a company goes above and beyond the sexual harassment laws, that's up to them. Don't like it? Tender your two week notice. The company has to do exactly nothing to make you happy. In the current economy it's an employer's market. You want to hold to what you feel a work place should be? Leave the oppressive employer. They'll have your chair filled in a matter of days. They get to give you stellar references when you try to find a new job. Care to guess what those references will be? Bet they'll all come down to your non-compliance to sexual harassment policies. Have fun flipping burgers.

 

[SeaDaddy1]

IT was objectifying women. Perhaps not harassment but certainly degrading.

How so? It's a pic of his wife. The most important woman in his life that he loves. Not some porno pic of a strange woman he jacks off too.

Doesn't change the fact that it was a picture of a scantily clad presumably reasonably attractive woman. Still easy to see how women could find it degrading and offensive. It's work, I don't see why people are allowed ANY photos in the office other than professionalism is much more a myth than anything people actually hold themselves to.

If it bothers the co-worker that much, then they need to stop making trips to the guy's desk to look at the pic only to bitch about it.

Lets say for the sake of argument that it is jealousy. It doesn't change the fact that you are creating an environment that is non-condusive to work. While this case is clearly sexually objectification it wouldn't ultimately change if you decided to hang your Olympic Gold Medals in in your cubicle and I was jealous that I never won the Gold in the Olympics. Work is for work.



At work they should be asexual, or fired. It's not my fault if they can't mange to be professional. Team building at Dave n Busters is about comraderie not sex. We did the same thing in the Marines and with my High School Football team and with my Boy Scout troops. I know you think that when boys go camping together they start fucking but that's not how it works in reality.

I used to keep pics of my kids at a job on my desk (not an office environment) to remind me why I was working so hard in the first place. It was my inspiration. If nobody liked it, then they could fuck off.


Why do I get the impression you're the big whiner at work who complains about so much stupid shit that no work get accomplished?

 

[MNGuy]

I have no problem with preventing sexual harassment at work. Women should be free to do their job without having to put up with crap. But at the same time I have seen instances in the corporate world where men have been disciplined or fired where it may not have been warranted. These are some of the more memorable ones I have witnessed in the corporate world:

1. Paul, a very good looking, young, single male member of management flirted extensively with attractive women under him. Even sleeping with several of them. His comments to women were blatant. I personally heard him tell women that they should sleep with him, give him a quickie in his office, and how two women should put on a lesbian show for him. Not ONE complaint against him. Another member of management, Phil, an average looking guy, who saw this behavior day in and day out, came to believe if Paul could do it, he could as well. Now Phil was no where as blatant as Paul, but started with a few mild flirts. Basically suggesting a date with a female colleague. Within a week, personnel stepped in, and had Phil transferred to a crap location. Phil told personnel what Paul said and did, and they told him unless a woman complained, there was nothing they could do about it.

2. John, a member of management, acted totally professionally at work. Almost to the point women wondered if he was gay. However, across town was the local strip club, located near a popular night club. Well, one night, a female co-worker happened to be out clubbing with her girlfriends, and they spotted John coming out of the strip club. She filed a sexual harassment claim at work, and John was terminated. She said she couldn't work for him because she felt he degraded women by going to see strippers, and by extension, viewed women at work as objects. So he was allowed to leave the company to pursue other opportunities. The kicker, her friends and her went to the night club to see the Chippendales.

3. Randy, a golden boy, and up and comer, soon to be promoted to an executive position, was sent to a retail location to 'clean up' an under-performing store. Well he made people work and held them accountable for their work. A couple of female clerks reported him for sexual harassment, specifically stating that if they didn't perform sexual favors for him, they would be terminated. Corroborating stories, personnel didn't even interview Randy, they just fired him.

As a result, he lost his job, his wife filed for divorce, won the house, car, and custody of the children. He had to take a much lower paying job, and filed for bankruptcy.

A few months later, a female manager, Tracy, a friend of Randy, was transferred into the location. She kept her friendship with him a secret, and quickly heard the story of how the two clerks concocted the story just to get rid of him. She documented everything, and went to personnel, and they interviewed the clerks again, confronting them with the documentation, and they confessed they made it all up just to get rid of him, because he made them work. They were fired.

So what did corporate do? Tried to keep it quiet. Didn't inform Randy of what they learned. His friend Tracy called him to tell him what happened. He lawyered up, sued, and settled out of court, very quietly. A few months later, Tracy was fired.

Those are three cases I have direct personal knowledge that happened in companies I worked for.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

i could care less.