Do Sadists Generally Preffer Submissives to Masochists?

[sincerely_helene]

Well, I think the consensus here is pretty much as I thought it would be. Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Catalina, bandit, blacklace, AA and Netzach all come from a similar mindset with regards to this topic, and in a way I envy you guys for being able to find such continued happiness with your current situations. I hope my query didn't make it sound like I advocate non-consentual violence or sex. I realized afterward it could be interpreted that way.

 

[blue kat]

I grant you, for sheer unadulterated sexuality - that performance was hard to beat.

The star of my fantasies, however, looks more like Eomer in the LOTR movies.

Except he's waaaaaaaay more aggressive toward women. He basically... ummm.... takes what he wants.

And for some reason, he has a thing for petite middle-aged women with auburn hair.

Go figure.

Alice

the cad!

 

[sincerely_helene]

hmmm not sure you really wanna know what i think on this subject but oh well.
sadists only use masochists when the need is strong and they dont have the time to do what it is they do to subs to put them under their spell. i dont really believe that they like or get off on a person who is getting pleasure from what they are doing. they will tolerate a masochist for a while but it isnt what they really want in the end.

Of course I wanna hear what you think. Especially because it conforms with my way of thinking.

 

[sincerely_helene]

You hold 'em I'll hump 'em

Although I like the pirate idea, I somehow see myself more as one of the bad guys in the beginning of the movie version of Conan The Barbarian. In general: black steeds, black armor with horned casque, setting fire to villages, sowing fields with salt, putting all men folk to the sword, leading long coffles of females back to oral servitude chained neck to neck. But pirates are good too.

Actually, I misread the initial question which is submissives vs masochists. I think that I definitely preffer the "suffering in order to please him" type of chick; but there are a lot of grey areas between the two types.

Your kind is nothing but trouble!

 

[sincerely_helene]

Who would voluntarily choose you as their partner?


Alice

Raises hand*

Guilty. I'm not your typical "whips and chains excite me" style masochist, but Rosco is definetly the kind of men I date in real life. Perhaps I'm an emotional masochist?

 

[sincerely_helene]

I hate to go back OT in the midst of all this marauding and AARGH! ing, but...

I think your answer lies in the definition of sadist. A sensual sadist wants to inflict at the same time as giving pleasure, because it heigtens their arousal. They may also exhibit dominant tendencies. A Dominant sadist is one who is interested in control as well as pain, and I think this is where most of us lie, in this universe. (Not that RR's isn't a nice alternative!) It's not just about pain. I want you to want the pain. I want you to hate it and love it all at once. There's a point where a person is begging you, and you stop and ask what they really want, and they don't know! Their pain and pleasure centers are so intertwined that they don't know if they want you to stop, go, let them come or what. <<<O face>>>>. But the fact that my partner in this enterprise wants to take it as bad as I want to give it only makes it better.

The last sort of sadist is the one who simply doesn't care about anything but giving pain. They don't want control, they don't want you to like it, they don't really care if you come or not. These individuals are the kind who end up pulling the wings of flies and kicking their dog in milder cases. In the more extreme cases, you find them dumping bodies into the Green River. You rarely find them in the bdsm world, and if they do show up, it's usually only a matter of time before they get found out. When it comes to the straight dictionary version of a sadist, I've only seen one in a bdsm setting, and it was online, and it appears that most people have figured out what their game is.

Now then, in RR's corner of the altiverse, I don't want to be a pirate, I want to be a marauding viking mercenary chick!

Great answer! Thank you.

 

[blue kat]

Very welcome. Good question; we've been seeing a lot of re-hashes of older discussions and I don't remember seeing anything quite like this before.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Very welcome. Good question; we've been seeing a lot of re-hashes of older discussions and I don't remember seeing anything quite like this before.

Most of my threads are more in the realms of the cerebral than the physical. It's what gets me off.

Unfortunatly, it's what usually puts others to sleep.

 

[blue kat]

brains are sexy.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

ummmn I would like to know if any of these Pilaging Procrastinating Pontificating Pervert Pirates will be wearing black eyeliner ala Johnny Dep cause well ohhh......nvm........fans self

Newp, but you can kiss my pontificating ring ... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/2cool2.gif

It's not just about pain. I want you to want the pain. I want you to hate it and love it all at once. There's a point where a person is begging you, and you stop and ask what they really want, and they don't know! Their pain and pleasure centers are so intertwined that they don't know if they want you to stop, go, let them come or what. <<<O face>>>>.

Couldn't have said it better myself, save one thing.

 

[alice_underneath]

Raises hand*

Guilty. I'm not your typical "whips and chains excite me" style masochist, but Rosco is definetly the kind of men I date in real life. Perhaps I'm an emotional masochist?

When I made reference to his "proclivities", I was referring to this statement:

"I think that I definitely preffer the 'suffering in order to please him' type of chick."

The image I have in my mind is: whips & chains, she's in physical agony, sobbing and hating every minute of it, and that's what he needs to be really satisfied.

When you describe yourself as an "emotional masochist", are you saying that you are mentally satisfied if you are physically miserable?

I am struggling with the distinction between you and Catalina here. Is it that she derives both physical and emotional satisfaction from the physical pain, whereas you derive only emotional (but not physical) satisfaction from it?

Btw... I'm sure this is glaringly obvious, but in my entire life, I have never had any encounters that would even remotely fall into the category of BDSM. I am asking these questions because I am trying to understand the disconnect between my fantasies and my actual experiences.

Alice

P.S. to you and blue kat: Of course brains are sexy!! Wit is an unbelievably strong aphrodisiac.

 

[sincerely_helene]

When I made reference to his "proclivities", I was referring to this statement:

"I think that I definitely preffer the 'suffering in order to please him' type of chick."

The image I have in my mind is: whips & chains, she's in physical agony, sobbing and hating every minute of it, and that's what he needs to be really satisfied.

When you describe yourself as an "emotional masochist", are you saying that you are mentally satisfied if you are physically miserable?

I am struggling with the distinction between you and Catalina here. Is it that she derives both physical and emotional satisfaction from the physical pain, whereas you derive only emotional (but not physical) satisfaction from it?

Btw... I'm sure this is glaringly obvious, but in my entire life, I have never had any encounters that would even remotely fall into the category of BDSM. I am asking these questions because I am trying to understand the disconnect between my fantasies and my actual experiences.

Alice

P.S. to you and blue kat: Of course brains are sexy!! Wit is an unbelievably strong aphrodisiac.

Suppose the best way to describe it would be to explain that BDSM is only secondary to me, if even that. The only reason I would place myself in the position of being physically hurt, would be if my partner derived great satisfaction from doing it. I enjoy the idea of someone having control over me whether it is mental or physical, but not because I like pain.

The context of "emotional masochist" in the case of my previous post was generally speaking of the sort of men I am attracted to in real life. I don't typically involve myself in the BDSM kink type relationship, but I do have a habit of walking into situations where I know I'm going to get hurt emotionally. Quite honestly, anything else bores me quickly.

Quote:"When you describe yourself as an "emotional masochist", are you saying that you are mentally satisfied if you are physically miserable?"

No, I'm saying that I'm only mentally satisfied when I'm not mentally satisfied.

 

[alice_underneath]

Suppose the best way to describe it would be to explain that BDSM is only secondary to me, if even that. The only reason I would place myself in the position of being physically hurt, would be if my partner derived great satisfaction from doing it. I enjoy the idea of someone having control over me whether it is mental or physical, but not because I like pain.

The context of "emotional masochist" in the case of my previous post was generally speaking of the sort of men I am attracted to in real life. I don't typically involve myself in the BDSM kink type relationship, but I do have a habit of walking into situations where I know I'm going to get hurt emotionally. Quite honestly, anything else bores me quickly.

Quote:"When you describe yourself as an "emotional masochist", are you saying that you are mentally satisfied if you are physically miserable?"

No, I'm saying that I'm only mentally satisfied when I'm not mentally satisfied.

I understand completely what you are saying about control. In fact, total lack of control is a sine qua non for any fantasy that's gonna work for me.

For a long time, it bothered me that I was having fantasies about being raped. I used to try to force myself to contemplate a scenario in which I was at least partially in control of what was going on. But somehow..... no matter how hard I tried.... I would always end up tied down!

I guess the thrust of my original question to Rosco was: If I am not a masochist, but I have this urge to give up control, wouldn't it be better to give up control to a non-sadistic man?!?

As for being "mentally satisfied when I'm not mentally satisfied".... well, that sounds like a bit of a non sequitur to me. But perhaps, when it comes to human sexuality, some things just can't be explained.

Thank you very much for answering my questions.

Alice

 

[blondi84]

I think part of the reason this question comes up periodically is peoples understanding of what a masochist is. I get the impression often that because someone identifies as a masochist, therefore enjoying pain, that some believe they don't feel the pain like others, or as much. I definately feel the pain as much as the next person, and more often than not I wonder in the middle of it all how much more I can endure to feed his need, but then I find myself craving more hours later. For most masochists there is a need to have pain inflicted, while the sadist needs to inflict it......it can, and often does move beyond enjoyment to a place where deep need takes over for those who go past the defined safe and/or commonly accepted limits.

F has worked on parts of my body over time to increase the sensitivity to a level he only has to look in my direction with a hint of what he is thinking and I begin to sweat, he reaches out and begins to play and I can be in tears from the pain before he barely gets going....but that doesn't stop him, if anything it just makes him laugh and turn the pressure up, and sometimes if allowed it drives me to orgasm. So while I hate what he often does, I also love it...think perhaps you have to have a taste of masochism in you to begin to understand how that works psychologically and physically. LOL, my body was just beginning to recover from his last week home, the bruises had gotten to a nice bright yellow, and he is home again and in less than 24 hours I am a multitude of colours in various places.

Catalina

My question is how do you explain the bruises? Are the people around you concerned? I know I would be all over it if a friend/nieghbor/family member had horrible bruises all the time. Do you think you could have a relationship that did not involve violence, and if not, dont you think that is a problem?

 

[Marquis]

hmmm not sure you really wanna know what i think on this subject but oh well.
sadists only use masochists when the need is strong and they dont have the time to do what it is they do to subs to put them under their spell. i dont really believe that they like or get off on a person who is getting pleasure from what they are doing. they will tolerate a masochist for a while but it isnt what they really want in the end.

Agreed.


As a sadist, I actually preffer the most innocent and uncorrupted partner possible, gives me plenty of room to work with. The problem becomes one of challenge vs. utility, where sometimes it is merely TOO much work to get what I want, and also there is the fact that all but the hardiest of virtuous women head for the hills when they see me coming.

 

[Marquis]

Who would voluntarily choose you as their partner?

This almost sent me to the hospital.

 

[Marquis]

My question is how do you explain the bruises? Are the people around you concerned? I know I would be all over it if a friend/nieghbor/family member had horrible bruises all the time. Do you think you could have a relationship that did not involve violence, and if not, dont you think that is a problem?

Impeccable timing.

You, my dear, would make the most scrumptious play partner.

 

[Bandit58]

My question is how do you explain the bruises? Are the people around you concerned? I know I would be all over it if a friend/nieghbor/family member had horrible bruises all the time. Do you think you could have a relationship that did not involve violence, and if not, dont you think that is a problem?

I played quite heavily one Friday night with Master and my female friend, and quite forgot that on the following Monday I had an appointment with the gynacologist. I had some fairly dark bruises on my butt by then As it turned out the gyno (male) never even mentioned the fact, but if he had Master had told me to tell him that I just enjoyed rough sex and it was all consensual

My bruises are not in places that are normally visible. Unless we tell people, they don't know what we do. This is my first D/s relationship, and even though I'm still relatively new and still exploring things, I don't think I could go back to my old vanilla life. If Master and I are separated for any length of time I find myself getting very restless and having a feeling of "need" that can only be banished by a good spanking. As for it being a problem, why would it be? I have limits and safewords and everything we do is consensual. I have had occasion to use those safewords and they have been respected immediately. The only "problem" I see is other people's perception of our relationship, and if we don't tell them there is none

 

[sincerely_helene]

Impeccable timing.

You, my dear, would make the most scrumptious play partner.

Quit using my thread to pick up chicks.

 

[Marquis]

Quit using my thread to pick up chicks.

What the fuck am I supposed to do bitch! You ain't showed me love in weeks!

 

[sincerely_helene]

What the fuck am I supposed to do bitch! You ain't showed me love in weeks!

That's cause you ain't given me no mo' money.

I don't see ya tryin' to pick up the girlies in your "All Women Are Whores" thread. Why is that?

 

[Marquis]

That's cause you ain't given me no mo' money.

I don't see ya tryin' to pick up the girlies in your "All Women Are Whores" thread. Why is that?

Different dame, switch the game.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Different dame, switch the game.

That made me "lol."

 

[Caitlynne]

No, I'm saying that I'm only mentally satisfied when I'm not mentally satisfied.

The scary thing is that I totally understand this.

I once wrote a piece of erotica [not for Lit] that had this theme. "Always leave a submissive/masochist/slave/bottom wanting more."

Even being allowed an orgasm should not leave me overly content. I need something that leaves me *wanting more*, and that's easiest to accomplish emotionally and/or mentally. Physically, the pain and the pleasure do have boundaries--they are finite. Well, they are if you want to go on living, walking, breathing, etc.. Death, after all, is finite. So, the emotional and mental become the arenas for 'leaving me unsatisfied' in some way. Those are unlimited areas of exploration.

I prefer to always have one question left unanswered. Or some emotional need not met. Something. Something to leave me wanting, suffering, and needing. For me, it establishes the roles at a deeper level. I will always want, he shall always be sated. If' I'm too content, I feel..... weird.

It's just wrong.

I'll admit it's a fine line. I mean, I'm not into total denial of what I need and want. I'm not that foolish or out of touch with myself. There are some basics [for me, maybe not for others] that I need to be present. But, I'm not likely to serve a Dominant who doesn't have the desire to accord me those.

I also want to have some of my needs met [the ones he wants to meet of course] because that is the tease, the carrot, the beginning of the suffering. I begin to hope I'll have all my needs met, all my desires. Even if I know they never have been in the past, I reach a point where I begin to hope that "this time" I'll get "it". Whatever "it" is for that moment.. That hope drives me towards the edge for him.

But here is the kicker, the times I have reached "it", I was very depressed afterwards. I was not happy--and it *was* what I wanted. But I came to realize that the 'suffering' was gone, the wanting was gone, the passion was gone, and I was miserable without it.

So, for the most part, I am happier when I am suffering in some fashion. Usually that suffering takes the form of some emotional or mental suffering because the physical does have limits, but it can definitely take the physical for as well.

I don't self-describe as a pain-slut, but I recognize that there is something in me that does not want to be too content. I prefer my passions, thank you very much!!

 

[alice_underneath]

The scary thing is that I totally understand this.

I don't claim to grasp it completely, but I understand more after reading your post.

Thanks, Caitlynne.

Alice