Do Laroo and Manoo hate Irish people or something?

[scouries]

Do Laroo and Manoo hate Irish people or something?

I saw a thread a week or so ago (but unfortunately can’t find it now). In it, an author complained he’d lost a couple of votes, couldn’t understand why. Those who responded, Literotica veterans all I believe, even one gentleman who’d lost 400 votes on one of his stories, really couldn’t explain why or where the votes had gone. In fact, most who posted seemed to indicate that it was some arcane magic utilized by the gods to irritate us, that all attempts to obtain explanations were met only by Olympian silence.

I almost posted – was simply going to ask why the robots who run this place weren’t willing to explain what the hell was going on. Most organizations, companies, societies, etc., publish their rules, explain their thinking, their requirements…

It allows customers, employees, users, suppliers, friends, spouses, etc., etc., to work more productively, to enjoy themselves more. Reduces griping and whining…creates fewer arguments…it’s a twenty-first century type of approach…

Are they just trying to piss us off? Do they derive some cheap sexual thrill from our confusion? Laugh about our angst at night as they lay entwined under their silk sheets… Do they delight in all this talk of trolls…. Of the skirmishes that continually break out among friends …of the sadness caused…

~~~~~~~~~~

The only time I’ve noticed a story of mine losing votes was during the 2005 Christmas contest when my entry ‘Swimming With the Dolphins’ lost 300 votes without any explanation on the last day of the contest. Didn’t change my score much, or affect my zero chance at winning, but what the fuck!

Here we authors are trying to encourage any feedback and boom, they’re gone. I wondered afterward just how many of the 300 votes were legitimate and how many were actually contravening some rule the authorities can’t be bothered to explain to we mere suppliers of their product.

~~~~~~~~~~

But what’s really pissed me off, and the real reason I’m writing today is because sometime last night my story ‘Daddy, I Whispered’, a story that’s been on the site for 8 months, a story never entered in any contest, lost [size=+2]6 0 2[/size] votes. Which just happens to be more votes than I’ve received on 90% of my stories. And all the erased votes, if my math is correct, were 5’s. Shit, at least throw away a few of the 1’s.

Are there really 602 voters who’ve contravened some unknown rule? Who are these people? What are their crimes? Do Laroo and Manoo hate Irish people? Or Blacks? Or Hindus? Or Swedes? Hetrosexuals? Monogamous couples? Is there some segment of the Lit reading public whose votes are automatically jettisoned? How are they identified? Was my cousin Samantha’s vote, pretty little thing living up in Boston, loves her uncle, was her vote thrown out?

You’ve ruined my day, Christ, my week, month, year… Even two valium and a joint haven’t improved my mood….you’re just killing me man…God, I may not be able to write another story (don’t cheer, I’m just kidding)

Please, please oh great Manoo, come down from your mountain….walk among your people…give our votes back…..explain your system…a magnanimous god is always more loved than a….

J.R.S.

 

[Boxlicker101]

First, you should learn what their names are, and address them by those names or some friendly shortening. Their names are Laurel and Manu.

The reasons for throwing out votes tend to be varied but it is usually when it is apparent the votes are not legitimate. They especially watch out for votes on contest entries and, when they see votes that are clearly cast by trolls or are otherwise invalid, they are deleted.

I seem to remember what you were complaining about in the Christmas contest. You suddenly had about five times as many votes as anybody else, and a very high score. It waqs obvious that somebody, such as a fan of yours, had access to a large number of computers, such as in a college computer lab, and had cast votes on all of them. This was not considered to be valid and many were deleted.

I don't think Laurel or Manu have any way of knowing the ethnicity of the authors who contribute to this site.

 

[FallingToFly]

Deletion of troll votes and "fluff" votes is a good thing. Now if they could just do the rest of my list, I would be happy, lol.

(That's a joke, O Mighty Ones. I know you're too busy to do a full-site sweep right now.)

 

[Darkniciad]

The last two sweeps almost look like category clean-up to me. The one a couple of days ago I think was a clean-up of Romance, and this one looks to be perhaps a cleanup of Erotic Horror.

Just like I said in the previous thread, odds are that Laurel and Manu don't really know why your story lost xxx votes, except that it met the criteria of a sweep, which was built from data obtained in previous sweeps and reports from authors/readers.

Revealing the exact way they build the sweep criteria they use would only provide information to people, allowing them to find ways around it and Fluff/Troll at will.

I guess I've done too much database mining with custom built queries in my time, because I can see the general mechanics of these sweeps when they run through. IMO, There will always be mysteries, but I believe it is all in the interest of keeping the scores as fair and accurate as possible.

Cold comfort when you see large numbers of votes vanish and/or your score drop, but the next sweep may very well bump a story up a mile.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I guess I've done too much database mining with custom built queries in my time, because I can see the general mechanics of these sweeps when they run through. IMO, There will always be mysteries, but I believe it is all in the interest of keeping the scores as fair and accurate as possible.

Cold comfort when you see large numbers of votes vanish and/or your score drop, but the next sweep may very well bump a story up a mile.

Well, until they come out and state their criteria for removing votes it will just remain a guessing game. I personally lack confidence in their ability to provide fair and accurate scores.

I rarely have seen one of my stories rise more than a few hundredths as the result of a sweep, but I have seen stories plummet as much as three tenths because of a sweep.

I entered a chapter of Montana Summer in the Earth Day contest, it lost 200 votes on the first day, and 180 votes on the second day, I then pulled the story from the contest. I have hard time believing that there were 380 questionables votes. The 380 votes lost were about 75% of the votes cast for the story.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Well, until they come out and state their criteria for removing votes it will just remain a guessing game. I personally lack confidence in their ability to provide fair and accurate scores.

I rarely have seen one of my stories rise more than a few hundredths as the result of a sweep, but I have seen stories plummet as much as three tenths because of a sweep.

I entered a chapter of Montana Summer in the Earth Day contest, it lost 200 votes on the first day, and 180 votes on the second day, I then pulled the story from the contest. I have hard time believing that there were 380 questionables votes. The 380 votes lost were about 75% of the votes cast for the story.

Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with you. I could be wrong, but I think everyone else is just entertaining happy pink thoughts.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

But what’s really pissed me off, and the real reason I’m writing today is because sometime last night my story ‘Daddy, I Whispered’, a story that’s been on the site for 8 months, a story never entered in any contest, lost 6 0 2 votes. Which just happens to be more votes than I’ve received on 90% of my stories.

This is ridiculous. A single story had more votes deleted than 90% of your stories have received, and it didn't cross your mind that they might not be entirely legitimate? If 90% of my stories can't get 500 votes and suddenly one them has so many (1000?) that it can have 602 votes removed, I certainly would at least consider the chance that there was something wrong with them.

By the way, I believe the reason why Laurel and Manu don't respond to many questions is because the answers are already posted somewhere - usually in the FAQ or sticky threads - and their policy is not answering what's been answered already and can be found with little trouble. I agree with this - otherwise they'd be responding to silly emails and PMs all day long.

About the voting system, they don't give out specifics because of security reasons. If you knew exactly how votes are deemed irregular, you'd have no trouble finding ways around it.

 

[Darkniciad]

I've seen scores drop tenths, and had stories rise from 4.60 to 5.00 ( just yesterday for that example actually ) during a sweep. I'm close to losing more votes than have stuck in the Halloween contest.

We know there are people out there who unfairly vote high and low, often multiple times. It's either find some way to eliminate those votes or leave everything at the mercy of fanboys and trolls.

No system is perfect.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

This is ridiculous. A single story had more votes deleted than 90% of your stories have received, and it didn't cross your mind that they might not be entirely legitimate? If 90% of my stories can't get 500 votes and suddenly one them has so many (1000?) that it can have 602 votes removed, I certainly would at least consider the chance that there was something wrong with them.

By the way, I believe the reason why Laurel and Manu don't respond to many questions is because the answers are already posted somewhere - usually in the FAQ or sticky threads - and their policy is not answering what's been answered already and can be found with little trouble. I agree with this - otherwise they'd be responding to silly emails and PMs all day long.

About the voting system, they don't give out specifics because of security reasons. If you knew exactly how votes are deemed irregular, you'd have no trouble finding ways around it.

What you contend is not necessarily true, when I first submitted Montana Summer Ch 1 in the Incest/Taboo category it received more votes, and hits in one day than most of my work had received in six months.

Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the mythical FAQ's or Stickies that address this subject. I have looked high and low and found nothing. It is their perogative on whether to reply or not. I can't speak for anyone else here but, when I take the time to PM them, at least to me, my question is not silly.

I can understand certain duplicate, and other irregulaties being removed, but when it gets into 100's of votes, and up to 75% of the total votes, I tend to wonder if it's the system that is wrong.

I agree with Darknciad, there is no perfect system. But, until someone offers up some concrete explanations, I have no confidence in Lit to be able to provide fair and accurate voting results.

 

[cloudy]

I agree with Darknciad, there is no perfect system. But, until someone offers up some concrete explanations, I have no confidence in Lit to be able to provide fair and accurate voting results.

Yet, this statement absolutely BEGS the question: What possible reason would Laurel and Manu have for NOT being fair?

I've read from several different authors that their fans have confessed to them that they read certain stories over and over again, and vote every single time they read it.

I can see no reason for them not to be fair in sweeping votes. Unlike many, I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories - it seems a little paranoid to me.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

What you contend is not necessarily true, when I first submitted Montana Summer Ch 1 in the Incest/Taboo category it received more votes, and hits in one day than most of my work had received in six months.

Hmm...

Little Red Rides the Hood - 01/09/05 - 14 Votes
The Neighbor's Ghost Ch. 01 - 01/04/05 - 18 Votes
Jennifer and the Tentacle Monster - 01/20/06 - 22 Votes
Working Out - 03/04/05 - 24 Votes
Britney & The Tentacle Monster - 01/04/05 - 26 Votes
Over the Sink Ch. 01 - 10/23/05 - 496
Over the Sink Ch. 02 - 12/28/05 - 332
Over the Sink Ch. 03 - 01/03/06 - 204

So I definitely understand how one story can get more votes than another.

However, I also understand the need for vote sweeping, when a story is getting a ton of duplicate votes, or some other nonsense.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Yet, this statement absolutely BEGS the question: What possible reason would Laurel and Manu have for NOT being fair?

I've read from several different authors that their fans have confessed to them that they read certain stories over and over again, and vote every single time they read it.

I can see no reason for them not to be fair in sweeping votes. Unlike many, I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories - it seems a little paranoid to me.

I don't think that I have once even come close to hinting that is a situation of them being fair. If I had the slightest inkling that it was collusion on their part I would have pulled my stories and left this site long ago.

But into the hundreds, c'mon, that's stretching it a bit.

I just don't have faith in what ever system or method that they use to do the sweep. That's it. Plain and simple. There is no conspiracy theory.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's also possible that sudden high votes like these are database errors.

I run a php site and I've had times when everything suddenly started entering twice, and one memorable day, it was five times.

 

[NoJo]

Laurel and Manu are personal friends of mine from Ohio, we met at the Kent State massacre way back in 1970.

While I have gone from Republican voting hippy-hating National Guardsman to long-haired left-leaning eccentric, I'm afraid they've gone the way of all erstwhile "freaks", and have become rigid Conservatives, more concerned with their Charles Schwab account than with the ideals they shared and I hated.

So they probably don't give a fuck about your votes.

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[Stella_Omega]

Laurel and Manu are personal friends of mine from Ohio, we met at the Kent State massacre way back in 1970.

While I have gone from Republican voting hippy-hating National Guardsman to long-haired left-leaning eccentric, I'm afraid they've gone the way of all erstwhile "freaks", and have become rigid Conservatives, more concerned with their Charles Schwab account than with the ideals they shared and I hated.

So they probably don't give a fuck about your votes.

Joe, you FUCKING liar! You were NOT at Kent state, and I can show the bitter, brown, little roach we were smoking when the news came over the radio- in sunny Los Angeles.

The hot tub is long gone, alas...

 

[FallingToFly]

Joe, you FUCKING liar! You were NOT at Kent state, and I can show the bitter, brown, little roach we were smoking when the news came over the radio- in sunny Los Angeles.

The hot tub is long gone, alas...

*snerk*

Hey Stella....

If I was going to right a hot gay pirate story, would you be willing to help me with some of the man sex scenes? Read over them, tell me what you think?

 

[Stella_Omega]

*snerk*

Hey Stella....

If I was going to right a hot gay pirate story, would you be willing to help me with some of the man sex scenes? Read over them, tell me what you think?

ouch. OUCH! Stop twisting my arm, I'll do it!

 

[scouries]

Update

Voting update: “Daddy, I Whispered”

October 18 – lost 602 votes (all 5’s) – as reported last week.
October 19 – lost 98 more votes (they averaged about 2 if my math is correct).
October 20 – net gain 30 votes
October 21 – net gain another 100 votes (can votes be ‘swept’ back in?)
October 22 – net gain another 13
October 23 – net gain another 9
Today another net loss of 2 votes. Another sweep?

Total Net loss – 550 votes. Average 0.03 lower.

~~~~~~~~~~~​

In my previous post the question I was really trying to ask Mr. Manu is simply as follows:

For what reasons are votes disallowed?

I don’t have any particular interest and certainly wouldn’t understand the mechanics used to actually do the sweeps.

The only reason I can think of to disallow a vote is because someone has voted twice on one story. One man-one vote and all that. If Literotica has developed software that can reduce duplicate voting that’s great.

Everyone should understand though that some perfectly legitimate votes will inevitably get thrown out with the bad. I think all of you can envision a situation where two people vote on the same story, from the same machine, at approximately the same time. My girlfriend and I have done it more than once. Probably votes that were eventually swept away (at least they weren’t on my stories).

If this is all they are doing why not simply state the policy.

However, we all know (or suspect) that votes get thrown away for other reasons – unexplained reasons.

As far as I’m concerned, if somebody gives me a 1 or 2 on a story, those are the breaks. No matter the motivation. Even if he or she is simply trying to lower my score out of spite or to gain some advantage. That’s life. We live in a competitive world. It’s still a legitimate vote as far as I’m concerned.

And if Literotica is giving a computer the right to read our minds, to determine what our motivation was and whether our vote should count, then we’re all in big trouble.

Anyway, whatever the ground rules, I still ask, why not publish them?

JRS

 

[Lauren Hynde]

They don't give out specifics because of security reasons. If you knew exactly how votes are deemed irregular, you'd have no trouble finding ways around it.

 

[cloudy]

Voting update: “Daddy, I Whispered”

October 18 – lost 602 votes (all 5’s) – as reported last week.
October 19 – lost 98 more votes (they averaged about 2 if my math is correct).
October 20 – net gain 30 votes
October 21 – net gain another 100 votes (can votes be ‘swept’ back in?)
October 22 – net gain another 13
October 23 – net gain another 9
Today another net loss of 2 votes. Another sweep?

Total Net loss – 550 votes. Average 0.03 lower.

~~~~~~~~~~~​

In my previous post the question I was really trying to ask Mr. Manu is simply as follows:

For what reasons are votes disallowed?

I don’t have any particular interest and certainly wouldn’t understand the mechanics used to actually do the sweeps.

The only reason I can think of to disallow a vote is because someone has voted twice on one story. One man-one vote and all that. If Literotica has developed software that can reduce duplicate voting that’s great.

Everyone should understand though that some perfectly legitimate votes will inevitably get thrown out with the bad. I think all of you can envision a situation where two people vote on the same story, from the same machine, at approximately the same time. My girlfriend and I have done it more than once. Probably votes that were eventually swept away (at least they weren’t on my stories).

If this is all they are doing why not simply state the policy.

However, we all know (or suspect) that votes get thrown away for other reasons – unexplained reasons.

As far as I’m concerned, if somebody gives me a 1 or 2 on a story, those are the breaks. No matter the motivation. Even if he or she is simply trying to lower my score out of spite or to gain some advantage. That’s life. We live in a competitive world. It’s still a legitimate vote as far as I’m concerned.

And if Literotica is giving a computer the right to read our minds, to determine what our motivation was and whether our vote should count, then we’re all in big trouble.

Anyway, whatever the ground rules, I still ask, why not publish them?

JRS

It's very simple. As others have said before, if they publish the exact way that votes are counted/not counted/swept, then someone will find a way around it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Voting update: “Daddy, I Whispered”

October 18 – lost 602 votes (all 5’s) – as reported last week.
October 19 – lost 98 more votes (they averaged about 2 if my math is correct).
October 20 – net gain 30 votes
October 21 – net gain another 100 votes (can votes be ‘swept’ back in?)
October 22 – net gain another 13
October 23 – net gain another 9
Today another net loss of 2 votes. Another sweep?

Total Net loss – 550 votes. Average 0.03 lower.

~~~~~~~~~~~​

In my previous post the question I was really trying to ask Mr. Manu is simply as follows:

For what reasons are votes disallowed?

I don’t have any particular interest and certainly wouldn’t understand the mechanics used to actually do the sweeps.

The only reason I can think of to disallow a vote is because someone has voted twice on one story. One man-one vote and all that. If Literotica has developed software that can reduce duplicate voting that’s great.

Everyone should understand though that some perfectly legitimate votes will inevitably get thrown out with the bad. I think all of you can envision a situation where two people vote on the same story, from the same machine, at approximately the same time. My girlfriend and I have done it more than once. Probably votes that were eventually swept away (at least they weren’t on my stories).

If this is all they are doing why not simply state the policy.

However, we all know (or suspect) that votes get thrown away for other reasons – unexplained reasons.

As far as I’m concerned, if somebody gives me a 1 or 2 on a story, those are the breaks. No matter the motivation. Even if he or she is simply trying to lower my score out of spite or to gain some advantage. That’s life. We live in a competitive world. It’s still a legitimate vote as far as I’m concerned.

And if Literotica is giving a computer the right to read our minds, to determine what our motivation was and whether our vote should count, then we’re all in big trouble.

Anyway, whatever the ground rules, I still ask, why not publish them?

JRS

I would assume that two anonymous votes from the same computer will be caught, and one removed. Two votes from the same computer, but from two (putatively different) logged-in members will be honored.

Don't forget that Literotica is NOT a Public Service run by Democratic Majority Vote.

It's a privately owned website, run by two people who have day jobs besides, and who, for reasons of their own, have offered open access to it.

I'll take the site the way it is. If I decide that I want some other way I'll go look for another site- or build one to suit my own needs.