Distinctly male or distinctly female

[CharleyH]

I had posted this thingy over in Feedback and have now had two comments that the readers felt the story was written by a female rather than a male. I found that interesting, since I previously posted a thread about finding a male mentor, and having had some wonderful responses, thought I might be all set.

Yet, the comments raised an interesting question for me, and certainly it touches on our 'VOICE' threads concepts.

What makes writing so distinctively male or female? How do these two points of view, or is it style/words, that makes a piece of writing so obviously gendered?

 

[kendo1]

The 2nd word- Dearest- starts to give the game away as to the sex of the writer.

 

[Penelope Street]

Charley,

I didn't mean to say that the story read as if written by a woman. I did say that I assumed the narrator was a female- because I knew you had written the story. This was a hasty assumption on my part and should not have been interpreted to mean I thought the writing style was feminine. After I understood the narrator was a man, I had no trouble believing that as I read on.

If anything about the narration read as off, I thought it was that the narrator was too articulate and informed for one of his station- however, in hindsight, even this could have been correct depending on how long has passed since the incident described.

As to what makes a narration style masculine or feminine, I wish I knew. When trying to write from a male-POV I attempt to be a little more rash with my terms, focus on the physical attributes of the female characters, maybe have the guy scratch himself or something and hope the reader gives me a pass.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[kendo1]

You're right Pen.
Re-reading the story from a male point of view it makes sense. Maybe it was the AV that made me think the 'author' was female.

 

[Penelope Street]

Kendo,

You may have a point as well. When I take the time to write one, I open hand-written letters with Dearest. I take it men don't do that? What do you use instead, simply Dear? Or maybe Hey Joe?

I have AVs turned off in case my daughter comes into my room unannounced, as teens are prone to do, so that was not the issue for me; but having chatted with Charley on a few occasions, I was aware of her gender- so perhaps we both fell victim to the same manner of assumption.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

I wonder what sort of avatar George Sands used.

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm.

That's a tough one. And not one I'm sure I can answer.

I do know that several people have assumed I was female from reading my stuff.

If you want the character to be male, I think the best thing to do is have them spit in the shower.

Or if single, describe the state of their fridge, usually empty except for beer and maybe something microwavable in the freezer.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

You can always use Melvin Udall's recipe.

"I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability. "

 

[mlady_france]

Hmm.

That's a tough one. And not one I'm sure I can answer.

I do know that several people have assumed I was female from reading my stuff.

If you want the character to be male, I think the best thing to do is have them spit in the shower.

Or if single, describe the state of their fridge, usually empty except for beer and maybe something microwavable in the freezer.

Brings back memories of my brother's first place. he moved in with some friend, but kept the key to my mom's place so that he could eat. She asked him once why he didn't eat at his place. He replied that they only had beer in their fridge, it was the only esential.

 

[kendo1]

Hi RG.
Isn't the fridge thing an age thing rather than gender.
Modern life style- fast food.
I'm a slow food junkie. Family meals every night normally last an hour to an hour and a half.
I also keep a very tidy fridge!


I never use 'Dearest'.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I've been told, for different stories, that my voice was both clearly male and clearly female. I think it's a bit easier on me because I use more formal language; I suspect that people have less distinct expectations of how either gender will sound when speaking it. I do also sometimes have help when writing the other gender.

I have posted one or two things in which my gender appeared very obvious to me. It doesn't seem to strike others that way, however. I can't decide if that means that I write the opposite gender well, or if I write my own poorly.

I don't mind. At least I've foxed them all in this: the silly creatures do persist in thinking of me as human.

Shanglan

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'm sure Pure can dig up those all Gender Genius's threads and we can have a blast with them.

 

[The_Fool]

As long as I sound foolish, I'm doing my job....

 

[kendo1]

I've been told, for different stories, that my voice was both clearly male and clearly female. I think it's a bit easier on me because I use more formal language; I suspect that people have less distinct expectations of how either gender will sound when speaking it. I do also sometimes have help when writing the other gender.

I have posted one or two things in which my gender appeared very obvious to me. It doesn't seem to strike others that way, however. I can't decide if that means that I write the opposite gender well, or if I write my own poorly.

I don't mind. At least I've foxed them all in this: the silly creatures do persist in thinking of me as human.

Shanglan

Ride a black horse like the people of the Beltane
Wear you mane long, babe, you can't go wrong.

 

[CharleyH]

Charley,

I didn't mean to say that the story read as if written by a woman. I did say that I assumed the narrator was a female- because I knew you had written the story. This was a hasty assumption on my part and should not have been interpreted to mean I thought the writing style was feminine. After I understood the narrator was a man, I had no trouble believing that as I read on.

If anything about the narration read as off, I thought it was that the narrator was too articulate and informed for one of his station- however, in hindsight, even this could have been correct depending on how long has passed since the incident described.

As to what makes a narration style masculine or feminine, I wish I knew. When trying to write from a male-POV I attempt to be a little more rash with my terms, focus on the physical attributes of the female characters, maybe have the guy scratch himself or something and hope the reader gives me a pass.

Take Care,
Penny

Not focussing on my story (and thanks to you and Kendo) I really do feel that I have at the very least, on the "quessing threads", narrowed down to male and female writers, and I ask myself why? What is it. Now, I am most familiar with a few male writers, Shanglan and Neon are very poetic writers in their own right, but very different than say Gauche, Pops, Doc or Dran for example (apologies for bringing up names, and I dont mean to lump you all, nor leave out anyone -this is what comes to mind.) Dran has a waivering voice, as in it can be romantic, but I dont find the voice at all female. Gauche, Pops and Doc are very masculine voices. I would say in my opinion, though very different writers, and I lean on Gauche for the most masculine voice. BUT WHY, why do I think this?

Ican't say I always know a Gauche story, but I can say that his voice is masculine.

Not talking Lit now, talking about more known writers. Without knowing Hemmingway is Hemmingway, how IS IT that we know he is male? Without knowing Anais Nin is a woman, what makes any erotic scene or phrase for that matter so ... woman-like?

(Excuse me just writing thoughts as they come)

 

[oggbashan]

When we had a thread about an engine for analysing whether the writer of a piece was male or female I think the results were as near random as makes no difference. I think the engine looked for adverbs and adverbial clauses and a larger number of them = female. Very crude.

When I was writing as Jeanne D'Artois and I hadn't admitted that she was another version of me, the feedback assumed I was female.

I write some stories as Og from a feminine point of view and get flamed for it. Why? Apart from the flaming I get anyway because anon doesn't like my work?

If the writer is writing from a feminine point of view but two lesbians make love only when a man is watching then the feminine viewpoint is obviously suspect. An insistence on 38DDs is possibly male...

Og

 

[CharleyH]

I wonder what sort of avatar George Sands used.

I knew he/she was a T-girl

 

[BlackShanglan]

If I recall, Robert Silverburg once made rather an ass of himself by insisting that James Tiptree Jr. was definitely male and clearly had a masculine writing style. Really, I think that it's rarely that clear or straightforward in a good writer's work.

Then again, there are the exceptions:

"I found out in in the first two pages that it was woman's writing - she supposed that in making a door, you last of all put in the panels!" -- Thomas Carlyle on Adam Bede, by George Eliot

 

[kendo1]

Og
"If the writer is writing from a feminine point of view but two lesbians make love only when a man is watching then the feminine viewpoint is obviously suspect. An insistence on 38DDs is possibly male..."
If the writer is writing from a feminine point of view- two lesbians being watched by a female- you could still figure out if the writer was male or female.We'll forget about the bust size.

 

[CharleyH]

If you want the character to be male, I think the best thing to do is have them spit in the shower.

I am certain they do more than that

 

[BlackShanglan]

Not talking Lit now, talking about more known writers. Without knowing Hemmingway is Hemmingway, how IS IT that we know he is male? Without knowing Anais Nin is a woman, what makes any erotic scene or phrase for that matter so ... woman-like?

I don't know, but I agree it's there. I remember when I was much younger and still in school, we had to read My Antonia by Willa Cather. We were all baffled, as it sounded so masculine that we were all thrown when the speaker turned out to be female. It's been much too long for me to remember why she seemed masculine, but it was interesting to me to see how universal this initial perception was.

 

[rgraham666]

I am certain they do more than that

Not for years. I'm housebroken now.

 

[The_Fool]

I am certain they do more than that

Scratch their balls?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Og
"If the writer is writing from a feminine point of view but two lesbians make love only when a man is watching then the feminine viewpoint is obviously suspect. An insistence on 38DDs is possibly male..."
If the writer is writing from a feminine point of view- two lesbians being watched by a female- you could still figure out if the writer was male or female.We'll forget about the bust size.

There's that old theory that men are more visually stimulated, and that stories centering on strong visual imagery (as opposed to emotional impact) might be more male. *shrug* Hard one to call. Just because it's generally typical doesn't mean it's true in any one case.

 

[CharleyH]

I've been told, for different stories, that my voice was both clearly male and clearly female. I think it's a bit easier on me because I use more formal language; I suspect that people have less distinct expectations of how either gender will sound when speaking it. I do also sometimes have help when writing the other gender.

I have posted one or two things in which my gender appeared very obvious to me. It doesn't seem to strike others that way, however. I can't decide if that means that I write the opposite gender well, or if I write my own poorly.

I don't mind. At least I've foxed them all in this: the silly creatures do persist in thinking of me as human.

Shanglan

You are human And such a bright writery creature you are. Still, Kendo does bring up a good question. I ASSUME you are male, and assume that the stories I have read, at least, are of a male perspective. You are distinct in style,yet are you male in style. I will have to read yours and Ogs female stories. YET again, I will be biased in the knowing.

Og? Is this why you chose Jeanne? What was your experience in writing as OG from a femme perspective before her?