Disorderly Conduct-Feb. 14, 2002

Mickie

Not Really Here
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Posts
503
I apologize profusely for not posting this sooner. My novel, Devil's Lair, is going online on March 1st and my brain is chaotic. (Yes, that was a shameless plug. It'll be online at Amatory Ink. :D ) Plus today is my 17th anniversary. :heart: :eek:

So, on with the story up for discussion. :cool:

Rumple Foreskin's Disorderly Conduct - Chapter One can be found in the Erotic Couplings category.

The link -- Disorderly Conduct - Ch. 1

Mickie
 
Happy V-Day,

This story began as part of a training tool-novel back when I was first taking a stab a fiction writing. Since then it's undergone many re-writes as I experimented with techniques which may, or may not, have worked.

The piece contains several POV shifts, including one from Cindy to Malcolm then another back to Cindy and finally a complete scene and POV shift toward the end of the Ch. 2 to Cindy's husband, Ray. There are also some other scene shifts plus a few flashbacks.

Perhaps the most off-the-wall technique I've used is re-telling several scenes from the POV of both Cindy and Malcolm. One of the first things I discovered when starting this story was that writing sex/love scenes was/is a chore. The idea of presenting this most intimate and personal of acts through the eyes of the two participants seemed like a great way to reveal character.

Please let me know what you think of these whistles and buzzers. I'd also appreciate feedback on how the sex scenes worked and have your thoughts, specific or general, on how I might improve my poor scribbling.

This should have been submitted along with D-O Conduct Ch. 2 as one story. The problem was a brief incest scene near the end of Ch 2. Laurel said not warning readers about it would result in her getting some irate e-mails, but listing the story under, "incest," when there was none for 6000 words, would put off other readers. Our compromise was splitting and warning.

-Congratulations Mickie on the book, getting over begin sick, and having a s/o willing to put up with you for 17 years. RF
 
Rumple,

I read both stories, making notes along the way:

When you first mentioned POV shifts I cringed - but it works because it wasn't a real POV shift. It was just the same narrator switching gears and talking about different people. I think I've heard this called 'third person omniscient,' but I'm not sure if that's a real literary term. In any case I didn't find the 'shifts' distracting in and of themselves. The downside here is simple - the shifts happened before I got to know any of the characters. I felt like I was watching a movie trailer. I couldn't tell who these people were and I had a hard time caring about them.

Watch out for passive voice: had considered, had been going, had become, and so forth. It pops up a lot in both stories. It gives the reader an impression that the narrator is unsure or timid. Consider using "She went down on him every night" in stead of "She had been going down on him nightly." Suddenly the reader gets a fact, a certainty.

As KM is fond of saying, show - don't tell. If they made 'wild, passionate, uninhibited love' I want to hear about it! Moreover, I want to see their facial expressions, smell the smells and notice the body language. For example, instead of saying something like: 'she said sheepishly,' consider saying: '...she said, shuffling from one foot to the other, eyes downcast.'

If you're going to give a recounting of events try to throw in more details the second time around. I felt like saying "Yes yes, I know that - what's the point here?" I'm looking for something new, some real reason for getting the rerun scene from the mind of another character - something other than the simple novelty of "he-thought, she thought." Why was the experience of adultery in the back of the car so different for the two of them? I already understood that they came from different backgrounds - the switch didn't add anything to the story that couldn't be added another way.

Finally, if you really want to try some new tricks or exercises, I'd suggest this: Write a scene, any scene. Put yourself behind the characters' senses and describe everything in painful detail. The color of the floor, the smell of antiseptic and hospital laundry, the feel of leather against bare skin, the noises in the background - all of it. Then go back and delete the unnecessary. If you have a hard time conjuring the images start by looking around and describing the room you're sitting in. You may be surprised at how well you can write.
 
VeraGem,

You give good critique. Thanks for taking the time to read both pieces and give me some real feedback.

At one point you wrote, "I've heard this called 'third person omniscient,' but I'm not sure if that's a real literary term." Not only is it a "real" literary term, you are hereby awarded a genuine grinning idiot :) for recognizing and identifying old 3P Omni.

I understand about "show-don't-tell". However, IMHO, no story can be all show and no tell. Unless the details in a scene are needed to move the plot, why describe all the action, even if it's a sex scene?

In defense of this heresy, let me note that Cindy and Malcolm's first encounter is described not once, but twice. (your point about adding new details/info on the second description is appreciated) The scene with them in the supply room next to the nurses station, and it's immediate aftermath, is also told in some detail.

I agree about "had" and wasn't aware that so many of the fool things HAD slipped in. Thanks for the heads up and the rest of your helpful input. RF
 
Show don't tell - Tell don't show. All just a bunch of words and labels and critical crutches for spewing and not telling. I'm almost sorry I used the phrase. Here's what I meant to say:

I didn't sink deep enough into the characters. I didn't know where they were in the immediate sense. I couldn't feel the flesh. I couldn't see all the colors. The meeting of flesh was clinical and precise instead of immediate, wet and raw.

I could see the inside of the car though. I could see the cigarette smoke hanging in the air even though they didn't light up. I saw the sides of the buildings that formed the alleyway, smelled the mist creeping through the cracked windows.

Then I saw a Barbie doll lying on the back seat and a G.I. Joe sticking a plastic penis into a latex orifice.
 
VeraGem,

Interesting observations. In addition to my writing skill (or lack of the same) some of the problem may be due to this being in the third person. Almost by definition, that's going to place the reader at a greater distance from the action than will first person.

I'm not arguing or defending just wondering what I can do to add to the "up close and personal" feel without bogging the story down in a stroke-by-stroke narrative. But then if I had all the answers I'd be published and writing advice columns for struggling writers.

KillerMuffin has just posted a very good critique of this same story on the KM (give me something to sink my teeth into) thread. You might want to check it out. I've saved that critique, along with yours, for further contemplation. :)

Again, thanks for the input. RF
 
Hi R-F,

On the plus side, there IS a story, and it moves along nicely, though, as mentioned, the re-telling overlaps a bit much. The characters aren't bad, either, and you're to be congratulated on making the woman something less than a '10'.

As to the techique, third person, yes, it works at least at the beginning. It's not, of course, 'third person omniscient', it's a third person narrator with *limited access to one character's mind only, that is, only to the woman's, in the first part, and the man's in the second.

Here is where the problem comes in. The narrator of the first part is clearly NOT the woman. S/he doesn't talk like a nurse.
There is a distinction. This narrator has been replaced by another in the second part: it's some jive-ass guy with access to the man's psyche. Now it's common for the third person narrator to be a little 'infected' or overlapped with the character, but I don't know why you minimized that in the first part, and maximized it in the second. It would, in my opinion, be easier to keep the 'distant' narrator, well spoken, in the second part (with access to the man's mind).

The sex scenes, in my opinion, are the weakest because of unrestrained piling on of adjectives, especially doubles: Some extreme examples:

[quoting]
Waves of ecstasy surged through her writhing body as the powerfully built man lying between her long, outstretched legs hammered his demanding cock in and out of her very willing cunt.
...

The car rocked slightly as Malcolm rhythmically drove his unyielding dick in and out of her soft, warm flesh. Waves of ecstasy raced from her churning, stuffed cunt out to every cell of her tingling body. ....


Reaching down with her other hand, she slowly combed her fingertips through her damp, matted pubic hairs. When she touched her moist, sensitive pussy lips, a jolt of sexual energy shot across her eager body. ....

. A few seconds later his hard, black body was pressed against her soft, white flesh and his hard, black manhood was pushing against the entrance to her moist, pink, womanhood.
[end quotes]

The last case, you went 'over the top', in my opinion, *four doubles in a row, with the most overworked adjectives. It almost reaches parody of a certain porn style.

That's probably far too much said, but you obviously can tell a good story, just forget that teacher saying 'can't you make it more descriptive?'

Jack
abashed-dreamer
 
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Jack said that far more eloquently than I did - I sounded like a bitch. Feel free to give it back when my turn comes around.

VG
(With tongue firmly in cheek.)

PS: Just read KM's review - pretty good as always.
 
Abashed, VeraGem,

Both of you, along with KM, have given me the type of feedback I was hoping for when I first started hanging out in this scene of old world culture and charm. Bouquets are nice to get, but brickbats are what really help. In my reply to KM's excellent critique, I suggested she stop by and read those you two have posted.

Abashed, one of the many areas I need to work on is sex/love scenes. They're a bear, whether you're writing erotica, romanic, or mainstream. That said, I plead guilty to piling on, especailly in the following sentence. (but it WAS fun to write:))
"A few seconds later his hard, black body was pressed against her soft, white flesh and his hard, black manhood was pushing against the entrance to her moist, pink, womanhood."

Thanks again for all the input. Any future feedback will also be appreciated. RF
 
Sooner or later, Mickie is bound to fling someone else's story upon the Srory Dicussion Circle bullseye. So I'm going to take this chance to say my thank-yous.

Business has been a little slow around the old SDC lately. But while only two folks critiqued my humble offering, the quality of their input was first-rate.

So thanks VeraGem and abashed-dreamer for the feedback. It was both helpful and appreciated.

Rumple Foreskin
 
I read both parts, and I think that most of it works, but I have a few comments. I am totally inexperienced as both a writer and a critic, so take it or leave it...

I liked the way you plunged right in with a hot first paragraph and then moved into the story setup, but I think the setup got kinda dry as it went on. I'd either make it shorter (perhaps ruthlessly), or add some sexual buildup to it: describe how their flirtation turns her on. Similarly, when you swich characters, maybe dwell a bit less on the back-story. You did this well with Ray, where it felt like a good length. After all, we know her version of the story already.

I too, felt like the sexual scenes could use more description. I also felt disappointed when a couple of them left off before they were done. The scene in the hotel room in the morning left me hanging. All the same, you did a good job of describing her state-of-mind and desire during the blowjob before that:

"Unable to control her excitement, she wiggled her ass and heard herself moan with anticipation. Getting to her knees, she leaned over that growing cock and began sucking even harder. "

Good stuff.

The scene in the store-room was my favorite. The suspense and her reluctance added by the situation added great tension.

That's about it. I hope you find my comments useful.
 
Idle Hands,

Thanks for the input. That was a well-written, useful critique, especially for a rookie.

This may be the last time I try the double POV bit, at least in a short story format. The odds of confusing and/or boring the reader seem to outweigh any possible gain in character developement.

The nice thing about this site is it lets you experiment. Win some, lose some.

Thanks again.

Rumple Foreskin
 
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