Disinterested Partners: The Flip Side

[Eilan]

Warning: Lengthy post ahead. Please exit now if your attention span is nonexistent.

I’ve been thinking about starting this thread for a long time. However, I’ve been concerned with the can of worms that I might open up, particularly since this topic is one that might be seen as running contrary to the so-called “Spirit of Lit.” Since I’m posting this thread on the Café, it may not get a lot of responses, and that’s fine, but at least I‘ll say what I wanted to say.

Throughout my years at Lit--both as a lurker and as a registered user--I’ve noticed that one thread topic appears to show up way more often than the others. It’s not cock size, shaving, birth control, or the dreaded avatar question, though those types of threads have certainly earned their dead horse status. I’m talking about the threads in which the thread starter is frustrated by his or her partner’s lack of interest in sex.

I try to contribute to these threads whenever I can, but I often find myself upset by the attitudes held by other Litsters, though I certainly understand their frustration. You see, I was once one of those people who wasn’t interested in sex, and it likely contributed to the downfall of my first marriage. I’m not going to bore everyone with the details because I’ve posted them elsewhere. Here’s the Cliff’s Notes Version (Post #2) of my story for those of you who haven‘t read about it.

The focus of this thread isn’t on people who used sex to catch a spouse and then decided that since they had what they wanted, the sex was unimportant. Nor is it intended for people who knew that their SO’s weren’t interested in sex before they married, yet married them anyway because they thought things would change. I’m interested in the relationship dynamics of people who had active, healthy sex lives--until something happened.

It’s been a few years since my first marriage collapsed, and because I’m one of those people who likes to re-hash and overanalyze things, I’ve thought about it quite often, particularly since I‘m not too keen on making the same mistakes with my hubby. My ex-husband and I started out with an active, mostly fulfilling (we were each other’s firsts) sex life and fairly strong communication skills. What happened? What could we have done differently? How and why did we allow our relationship to deteriorate? Sex was a part of it, but it wasn’t all about the sex.

I don’t pretend to know all there is to know about relationships. I didn’t start this thread in order to justify or condone my--or anyone else’s--behavior. I started it in order to help people understand that these issues are often more complex than they might seem, and rarely do we hear from the "other side."

I believe that the vast majority of the time, sexual issues have their root causes in nonsexual issues.

I believe that there’s more than one side to every story.

I believe that communication is key.

So, if there are questions, comments, or whatever, please feel free to contribute. I know this can be a touchy issue, but I’d appreciate it if everyone would try to be civil. I’d particularly love to hear from those of you who have been the disinterested partner at one time or another. I know I can’t be the only one out there.

If I come across as preachy and condescending, I apologize. That wasn’t my intent.

 

[bobsgirl]

I have been the disinterested partner at times throughout my marriage. For a long, long time (a period of years) I had trouble orgasming with my husband. I mean, it NEVER happened. It's one of the reasons I found Lit; I was desperate to find answers. The point is, that as time went on, I got frustrated with him, and with myself, and ended up avoiding sex. Things are better now, and I think part of it is because both our children live in their own places now. We don't have an audience, except for the cat, and she won't tell.

I know pent-up anger and resentment was another part of the problem. I'm not very good at expressing anger. You bottle it up long enough and you start to resent the hell out of your partner, and you shut down. My husband and I really have to work at communicating because neither one of us is very good at it, especially about sex.

I wish I could get MrB to come here and read some of the threads here. but I don't see that happening. He's pretty straightlaced when it comes to bedroom activity. Since I've been at Lit, I have become much more open to experimenting with new things, and I think sometimes he feels threatened by it.

I know right now is another period of disinterest for me. I have some huge emotional issues going on right now, and combine that with crazy menopausal hormones--it doesn't make for a strong libido. But I know sooner or later, the dam will break (interesting image, indeed) and we'll be swinging from the chandelier and waking the neighbors.


I think this is about the longest post I ever made.

 

[Eilan]

I know pent-up anger and resentment was another part of the problem. I'm not very good at expressing anger. You bottle it up long enough and you start to resent the hell out of your partner, and you shut down. My husband and I really have to work at communicating because neither one of us is very good at it, especially about sex.

I found this to be the case as well, though sometimes I can be a little too good at expressing anger. Sometimes, though, I'd decide not to say what I felt, and things snowballed.

I thought I'd be the career mom, but when I held my oldest child for the first time, I wanted nothing more than to stay home and take care of her. This wasn't feasible at the time. I resented having to work; he resented that I wanted to stay home with the kids. The resentments and tensions affected the sex.

We communicated well at first, and then it got to the point where it seemed like one of us was always talking, but we weren't talking about the important stuff.

I think this is about the longest post I ever made.

Way to turn this into a size thread.

 

[EJFan]

I believe that the vast majority of the time, sexual issues have their root causes in nonsexual issues.

I believe that there’s more than one side to every story.

I believe that communication is key.

i agree with all of this... but i think the first one is the most important to remember. putting aside the issue of sex as recreation or as a purely physical act, in the context of a marriage (or LTR), with sex as a sort of physical manifestation and ultimate expression of love, i think that it CAN'T exist when there are underlying stresses on the relationship.

sex can't solve a problem and it won't make it go away. it's kind of like the canary in the mine shaft... it's there that you'll notice things that maybe you hadn't realized were even stressing the relationship.

 

[asian_princess]

Disinterest in sex.

Sometimes it’s just a pain in the ass, and sometimes it’s a pain in the heart.

It’s happened to me from time to time, in different relationships and for a variety of different reasons…there is however ONE indication, that shows me whether it’s hormones or fatigue or temporary body image yuckiness…or if it's a symptom of something wrong with the relationship – when it’s because of a physical or strength thing, I get frustrated and rally against it and try to find the underlying reason, and do what I can to get back my libido (my buddy)…but when it’s something more, I ignore it, I hide it, and I try to mask it.

To the detriment, of my relationships (and sanity) I’m one of those “repressors” *gasp* I know. I’m getting better…I pity my current man, who is unfortunately, the one to experience the blooming of my “voice your frustration” brain center, but I know he prefers this to me repressing and resenting.

But a repressor is both her own victim and enemy.

Because anger is anger. It lives and it breathes and you cannot squash it indefinitely. but then the little things...insecuritie, doubts build up, momentary annoyances become nagging frustrations, and as you grow further and further apart, while you're telling yourself that you love him, while your body manifests th emtion by being repulsed by his touch. Like I said, you can compress it…but hey, one day, someone’s gonna shake the soda bottle that is your sanity, and I dare say, watch out those within the reaches of the spray. Could things have worked out if I had spoken up each and every time I wondered why he was coming home late? Maybe..maybe not, but at least I wouldn’t have been sitting there 2 years later alone, wondering if it would’ve made a difference.

And I found...blaming sex? the best denial mechanism there is. Blame sex...cos sex is easy to fix, just have it, and it means that everythin is alright.
...except, the problem is, you can't just bring yourself to do it.

What also exasperated the situation for me was, the different responses that the two of you have to your problems when it comes to sex. I pulled away (manifested by disinterest), he became overinterested...and so, voila, the mind could only see the superficial problem...you're not sexually compatible!!!...how quickly the mnd forgets though, that just six months before, you were completely in sync.

Sorry Eilan. I'm just thinking aloud. Your post got me a-pondering.

I don’t know…and maybe someone could shed light…I wonder now if it was some form of punishment? WITHHOLDING the sex? I know it wasn’t consiously deliberate…but now I’m wondering…was there more to it?

 

[bobsgirl]

I don’t know…and maybe someone could shed light…I wonder now if it was some form of punishment? WITHHOLDING the sex? I know it wasn’t consiously deliberate…but now I’m wondering…was there more to it?

Well, if withholding sex is a way of punishing one's partner, whether deliberate or not, it didn't work very well in my case. He has more patience than any 10 people should have, and was willing to wait. And he's just oblivious enough that it wouldn't occur to him that no sex=bg's pissed off.

Now, withholding orgasm...that is a subject I've given a lot of thought to and I know I had a lot of trouble getting aroused because I was obsessed with negative thoughts: I'm ugly, I don't deserve this, I should be a better person, that sort of thing. I started looking at sex as a way that I could "service" him so he'd love me more. Dear me, when I see it written down like that, it sounds really pathetic.

 

[bobsgirl]

Way to turn this into a size thread.

One does what what can to be helpful.

 

[silverwhisper]

eilan quoth
the vast majority of the time, sexual issues have their root causes in nonsexual issues.

i know EJ quoted this, but i thought it warranted a repeat appearance.

ed

 

[TBKahuna123]

i know EJ quoted this, but i thought it warranted a repeat appearance.

ed

Absolutely!

There have been periods throughout my marriage where we've both been the dissinterested party.

The first time was a health issue, and really wasn't dissinterest in sex, I just had a dissinterest in causing her pain. 6 or 7 months with no sex just 2 years into a marriage was rough!!! This was early in our marriage and I firmly believe that our survival of this made anything possible.

The second time was a big breakthrough for me because I suddenly found what really got my wife charged up: Time! It was a totally non-sexual problem, our lack of time together in general due to busy lives, and specifically our non-sexual quality time prior to having sex. This was easy to address and just the effort was enough to correct the sexual issue, which was in reality and emotional one.

The third instance I can think of was actually where I was the dissinterested party. Though I didn't realize it, I had become turned off of sex due to a hygeine issue. Now, let me explain, because it was through no fault of my wife's. Two years ago when we really started her healing process from her PCOS, their first goal was to get her cycling. She hadn't cycled for years. She then had a period which lasted 4 months, I mean she litterally menstrated for 4 straight months. While this has never bothered me in the past, it was different when it went on for that long. Sex became a chore almost, involving clean up and preparation to deal with the after effects. I found that this had a real effect on me and my desire to go through all that. It wasn't so much that I was grossed out, but just that it put a whole level of non-arousing baggage along with every encounter. Now eventually she noticed my sex drive had tapered off and I started to notice my desire coming back, so we talked about it. Of course she was already self-conscious about it, so my reaction didn't help any even if it were intentional. We talked through it though and came to understand what was causing me to feel this way. We found various ways not only to deal with it mentally, but physically. There again, I think just the effort and identification of the issue was enough. Now, heck doesn't bother me at all, all a period means for us is no oral sex.

I think what is happening now though is that we have gotten to the point where we are good at identifying issues before they become issues. There's a great story that came up just this week that I'm starting a new thread on. It's a great example of identifying a problem and addressing it before it can do harm to a relationship. And it's a dousey!

Eilan, this is a great thread. You don't sound preachy, you sound honest. You are right though when you say there is a bias on most of these threads, and it's not bad to talk about that. EVERYTHING in a relationship is a two way street.

 

[Eilan]

There was a point in my first marriage in which I was physically repulsed by my ex and the prospect of physical contact with him. The thought of kissing him in any way other than a peck on the lips was just yucky, for lack of a better word. In hindsight, the developing lack of attraction doesn't make any sense to me because he hadn't changed physically. Not to mention that I had been physically attracted to him for years--since high school.

In our case, the sex never stopped completely. By the time we'd separated, we were having sex anywhere from twice a week to twice a month. (The very end doesn't count, though, because we'd had sex once in a three-month period because I'd given birth shortly before he moved out.)

 

[silverwhisper]

eilan: i want to second what kahuna said about it not sounding preachy or anything of the sort. one of the reasons that i eagerly look for your posts is b/c you dispense great advice clearly and concisely.

you're a superb communicator. just quit doubting yourself. :>

ed

 

[Eilan]

eilan: i want to second what kahuna said about it not sounding preachy or anything of the sort. one of the reasons that i eagerly look for your posts is b/c you dispense great advice clearly and concisely.

you're a superb communicator. just quit doubting yourself. :>

ed

I just didn't want to come across as a condescending know-it-all who has all the answers to the situation.

Not in this thread, at least.

 

[silverwhisper]

if you thought it did, then now i know why you question your reading comp skills.

ed

 

[TBKahuna123]

I just didn't want to come across as a condescending know-it-all who has all the answers to the situation.

Not in this thread, at least.

If anyone's post came across like that it's mine!

That certainly wasn't what I was trying to say because I don't. I just have this notion that we live by that anything can be fixed if we really talk about it and the sooner we talk about it, the easier it is to fix. The more you let it go, the longer it festers and the worse the emotional damage. Heck even an issue like the health thing, where we could do nothing about it, just the acknowledgement of each other's feelings was enough to help us get through it without further harm to our relationship.

It's just being comfortable to actually broah the subject and the other party being understanding enough to really listen without getting defensive. That makes it sound DECEPTIVELY easy. (see my other post )

In hindsight, the developing lack of attraction doesn't make any sense to me because he hadn't changed physically.

That's because it wasn't a physical or even sexual problem. It was an emotional issue that manifested itself sexually and produced a physical response. I read somewhere, though I can't remember where, that most sexual issues between couples have nothing to do with their sex life. The very nature of sex though, makes it the place where these issues manifest themselves. That's what's so hard.

 

[Melesse]

Amusingly enough, I recently posted in a disinterested spouse thread as the opposite, but I guess upon closer examination, that's not exactly true. It goes both ways.

It's complicated (what isn't, gyah!) but this side of the coin is I'm not interested in sleeping with her b/c of her current martyr complex. She's acting like she's the only woman to ever have a child and goto school at the same time. She's constantly "Oh, woe is me! How awful my life" and I hate it. It definitely is affecting how much cock she's getting. Especially since I'm a part of the life she hates so much! lol

That said, she did suffer extremely bad postpartum depression right after the birth for 8-10 months or so, and refused to get help.

And things are just going to get worse when she gets a real job lol. I can't wait to hear how she'll react to that.

Melesse

EDIT: Eilan and SweetErika's threads are always the best!

 

[Eilan]

Postpartum Depression

That said, she did suffer extremely bad postpartum depression right after the birth for 8-10 months or so, and refused to get help.

Ooh, I hear ya on this. PPD was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" in my first marriage. I was too proud to get help, and my ex was too proud to admit that I might need help (though apparently someone thought I was acting oddly and said something to him). It didn't help, either, that I went back to work five days after giving birth. I was either crying or angry, and my ex bore the brunt of it.

He ended up leaving when our baby was two months old.

EDIT: Eilan and SweetErika's threads are always the best!

 

[TBKahuna123]

This may be off topic, but given the media attention in recent years, do you think PPD is becoming more recognized? I mean before it almost seemed like there was a stigma that went along with it. Do you think that stigma is lifting a little bit and this will cause more women/couples to seek help in the future?

 

[onlyerics]

This may be off topic, but given the media attention in recent years, do you think PPD is becoming more recognized? I mean before it almost seemed like there was a stigma that went along with it. Do you think that stigma is lifting a little bit and this will cause more women/couples to seek help in the future?

Never had a child before, but as someone who works in the medical field, I think yes. Patients these days are more informed about medical conditions, options, and treatments, mainly because I think of the internet. They are becoming more aware of what to do and how to help themselves and their loved ones.

 

[Eilan]

This may be off topic, but given the media attention in recent years, do you think PPD is becoming more recognized? I mean before it almost seemed like there was a stigma that went along with it. Do you think that stigma is lifting a little bit and this will cause more women/couples to seek help in the future?

The Brooke Shields/Tom Cruise debacle from last year might have helped things a bit.

I think a lot of women don't seek help because having a baby is supposed to be one of life's happiest moments. But really, even if a woman doesn't have PPD, the first few weeks (at least) after the baby's born are pretty trying. PPD magnifies all the little things.

 

[bobsgirl]

The Brooke Shields/Tom Cruise debacle from last year might have helped things a bit.

I think a lot of women don't seek help because having a baby is supposed to be one of life's happiest moments. But really, even if a woman doesn't have PPD, the first few weeks (at least) after the baby's born are pretty trying. PPD magnifies all the little things.

I always wondered why, if this is supposed to be so joyful, did I feel like slitting my wrists?



I just have to add, Tom Cruise is a jackass. IMHO, of course.

 

[Eilan]

I always wondered why, if this is supposed to be so joyful, did I feel like slitting my wrists?

I went between being weepy and having full-fledged temper tantrums. My ex bore the brunt of it, because in the back of my mind, I knew that I shouldn't be taking out my frustrations on a two-year-old and a newborn.

My ex said to me once, long after we'd separated, "After ****** was born, I thought you hated me." I DID hate him at that time. I knew that I was behaving badly, but I couldn't stop myself from doing it, and I was too proud to admit that I wasn't in control.

I was terrified that I'd have a repeat of this after my two youngest kids were born. Other than one relatively minor episode after each birth, I was okay. I would have gotten help if I'd needed it, though; my hubby would have dragged me to the doctor.

I just have to add, Tom Cruise is a jackass. IMHO, of course.

Yeah. I'm boycotting him.

Maybe it's a little silly, because he's just a celebrity, but the sad part is, people actually listen to what yahoos like Tom Cruise have to say. That's just scary.

 

[TBKahuna123]

You know, I've gotten a crash course in the female hormonal system and let me tell you, nothing suprises me. PPD is totally caused becasue your hormones get whacked out during pregnancy. I mean you poor dears, your whole body is this delicate balance of hormones that run your reproductive systems. Pregnancy and birth is a rollercoaster ride of hormone levels, to think that a woman might not return to normal levels after that is not a crazy notion. Guys are lucky, our reproductive systems have two states: On and Off.

Now I totally disagree with Cruise ad I too think he's a freakin nut, but I have to wonder about the effectiveness of psychiatric drugs for PPD. Seems to me that it's more of a hormonal condition. Wouldn't balancing those back out be a healthier and more effective treatment?

 

[Eilan]

Now I totally disagree with Cruise ad I too think he's a freakin nut, but I have to wonder about the effectiveness of psychiatric drugs for PPD. Seems to me that it's more of a hormonal condition. Wouldn't balancing those back out be a healthier and more effective treatment?

There's definitely a difference between the "baby blues" and PPD and postpartum psychosis (think Andrea Yates).

In the Brooke Shields situation, the drugs seemed to work for her, so I'm not gonna argue with that. She wrote a column, a response to Tom Cruise, in which she talked about wanting to strap her baby into its car seat and drive the car into a brick wall.

At what point, I wonder, is it a hormonal issue or a brain chemistry issue? And is there a difference, really?

 

[Lyrical Fool]

Not PPD related, but having been a disinterested party before...

Looking back, I realize that I *had* to have felt connected to him at one point, and I *had* to have been attracted to him at one point, as well, but honestly, I can't remember it.

I spent so much time thinking the problem was me. *I* was the one who didn't like sex, therefore, I was the one who was broken. "Yucky" is the best word for it, the feeling of his trying to kiss me, touch me, whatever. It was downright creepy. He had threatened at one point, to have an affair, and I told him, "Are you kidding? I'd PAY someone to have sex with you at this point."

< Not one of my shining moments >

What an amazing surprise when the marriage ended, (I, of course, being a "frigid bitch,") and I realized in the subsuquent relationship, that it wasn't that I loathed sex, just that I loathed sex with him.

And that I was very, very much NOT broken.

 

[TBKahuna123]

At what point, I wonder, is it a hormonal issue or a brain chemistry issue? And is there a difference, really?

That's jsut it, I don't think there is. When my wife started getting different hormones adjusted she went through wierd mood swings and bouts of depression and sudden euphoria. I think the two are VERY highly connected.