Dishonesty vs. Lying

[Sandia]

I had a thought the other day, and I just remembered it.

Dishonesty vs. Lying.

I'm cool with lying, because it implies an internal consistency. It's done intentionally.

Dishonesty, however, implies deceitfulness with oneself, a much more miserable and tricky condition.

A liar can always come clean. A dishonest person doesn't know when he's lying and when he's coming clean, and so he manages to not do both.

Also, I can usually spot a liar. A dishonest person will fool me every time.

 

[Aphrodisiac]

Isn't a dishonest person lying to begin with .. that is just as bad , no ?

 

[Siren]

 

[deliciously_naughty]

so what does a little white lie count as? Lying or dishonesty?

If you're lying to avoid hurting someones feelings or to keep them from finding out about a good surprise...where does that fall?

 

[Nora]

lol you know my thoughts on this:

Lie to me, that's a cogent and relatively sane thing to do (until I find out.)

Lie to yourself, there's no hope for you. Get outta my face. You're a whack job.


I don't like your terminology though. You're relying on connotation instead of denotation, so the meaning's too open to individual perception.

 

[Siren]

 

[Eumenides]

God, I love it when all those english grammar words are used.

Syntax....ooh

Semantics...OHHHH

Connotation.......MYYYYYYYYY

Denotation.....GAWWWWWWWDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

 

[Eumenides]

Whoops, I just hijacked.

Bad me.

I think they are synonomous (shivers), it has more to do with the type of lie or deceit than the definition of the word.

Did that make sense?

Probably not.

Alas.

 

[Carl East]

I've lied but I'm not dishonest, which is what I believe this thread is all about. I've lied to protect someones feelings, other than that though I can't remember lying about anything.

I think we have all lied at some time, even if it's just a little white lie.

Carl

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by Siren
. . . Both are same............only your perception is different. . .

I'll take minor exception here, sweet one. The difference is in the scope. Lying is a more confined sphere than is dishonesty. A thief who robs you at gunpoint is dishonest but he is not lying to you and telling you his action is legitimate; only that he is expropriating your property.

 

[intrigued]

I'll take minor exception here, sweet one. The difference is in the scope. Lying is a more confined sphere than is dishonesty. A thief who robs you at gunpoint is dishonest but he is not lying to you and telling you his action is legitimate; only that he is expropriating your property.

Nicely said. But, lying is dishonest, dishonesty is lying, is it not?

 

[The_Anarchist]

Playing semantics won't change the fact that to talk dishonestly is to lie.

 

[Carl East]

But surely you can be dishonest without lying simply by withholding the truth?

Carl

ps Does that make sense

 

[The_Anarchist]

Yes of course. A person can be dishonest in many ways which have nothing to do with communication.

 

[takingchances42]

Sex & Lies

We all lie to ourselves, intentionally or not... and sex and sexuality is one of the biggest areas for doing so. We tell ourselves that we are one thing, perhaps based on what we believe to be desirable, what we want to be. Maybe it is based on the way "good people" behave. Maybe it is based on the way exciting people behave, that we wish to emulate.

But sexual desires are such a complicated and often contradictory thing. How do we tell the difference between what we want to be, what we think we are, and what we actually are? It is a journey of exploration, and fascinating. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of introverted intuitives here (based on the Myers-Briggs thread), who tend to be introspective and examine themselves frequently, so perhaps Literotica people do lie to themselves less than the population as a whole... but don't we all do so, at one level or another?

Lying to ourselves and then discovering that we are something different is one of basic themes underlying real erotica (as opposed to mere poorly written masturbatory fantasies). The process creates tension, and allows for character development. Who among us is so completely sexually self-aware, that there is not room for growth in learning who we really are?

 

[intrigued]

Re: Sex & Lies

We all lie to ourselves, intentionally or not... and sex and sexuality is one of the biggest areas for doing so. We tell ourselves that we are one thing, perhaps based on what we believe to be desirable, what we want to be. Maybe it is based on the way "good people" behave. Maybe it is based on the way exciting people behave, that we wish to emulate.

But sexual desires are such a complicated and often contradictory thing. How do we tell the difference between what we want to be, what we think we are, and what we actually are? It is a journey of exploration, and fascinating. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of introverted intuitives here (based on the Myers-Briggs thread), who tend to be introspective and examine themselves frequently, so perhaps Literotica people do lie to themselves less than the population as a whole... but don't we all do so, at one level or another?

Lying to ourselves and then discovering that we are something different is one of basic themes underlying real erotica (as opposed to mere poorly written masturbatory fantasies). The process creates tension, and allows for character development. Who among us is so completely sexually self-aware, that there is not room for growth in learning who we really are?

\
Please know that I am nodding and grinning here but.... also just as you said, it is a journey of exploration, which cannot mean that we are lying to ourselves, it simply means we are still discovering ourselves, still keeping those minds open. I know I am....
Am I hitting on anything you meant, or do I need more coffee?

 

[takingchances42]

Re: Re: Sex & Lies

\
Please know that I am nodding and grinning here but.... also just as you said, it is a journey of exploration, which cannot mean that we are lying to ourselves, it simply means we are still discovering ourselves, still keeping those minds open. I know I am....
Am I hitting on anything you meant, or do I need more coffee?

Thinking we are one thing... telling ourselves we are one thing... the kind of person who doesn't do a certain behavior... and then actually doing it, and finding it is the hottest thing we have ever done...

It is a basic theme, all over the erotic stories section. It is conflict, between who we want to tell ourselves that we are, and who we actually are.

If we just don't know -- then it is just discovery. But if we have an agenda -- of wanting to be a certain way, perhaps because that is the way a proper mother and wife behaves... resisting our desires to be something else, not even wanting to acknowledge TO OURSELVES that we really want is something quite raunchy and slutty... then aren't we lying to ourselves? For a particular reason, to try to be a type of person that isn't a fit with our real, base sexual desires?

As I said, it may be less common here... but it is still endemic...

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Re: Sex & Lies

Thinking we are one thing... telling ourselves we are one thing... the kind of person who doesn't do a certain behavior... and then actually doing it, and finding it is the hottest thing we have ever done...

It is a basic theme, all over the erotic stories section. It is conflict, between who we want to tell ourselves that we are, and who we actually are.

If we just don't know -- then it is just discovery. But if we have an agenda -- of wanting to be a certain way, perhaps because that is the way a proper mother and wife behaves... resisting our desires to be something else, not even wanting to acknowledge TO OURSELVES that we really want is something quite raunchy and slutty... then aren't we lying to ourselves? For a particular reason, to try to be a type of person that isn't a fit with our real, base sexual desires?


As I said, it may be less common here... but it is still endemic...

Yes, that is lying to ourselves, but only somewhat, as we really do know the truth. Its lying to others more so...
Thats the woman I was all my life, though it wasn't as much lying as it was repression, not being able to feel anything, and just not knowing my own desires. No more....I know what I like, and its all good.

 

[Awesome]

Both the same thing to me.

Lie to me,deceive me,that's it.



You be swimmin with da fishes muthafucker.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

so lets say you need to trade your car in knowing its falling apart, what are you going to tell the dealership when they offer you 1500 less than what you hoped for?

what are you gonna tell the officer when he pulls you over and asks "whats your hurry"?

bottom line is lying is the same as being dishonest. now if you tell the occasional lie are you a bad person, of course not, its something nearly everyone does. it is when it becomes habit or second nature..when you find yourselve telling more lies to cover the others..that you have become morally bankrupt.

 

[Awesome]

So?
You lying to other people takes no skin off my nose.


Now,you lie to me?



I'll have uncle Guiseppe come round and whip your arse with a baseball bat.



Okay,so last time it was a cricket bat.
But they NEVER proved nothin.

 

[The_Anarchist]

...having said that, I lie all the time.

I think most people are dishonest, "The emperor is naked".

They have to be to survive in society.

I think Liar, Liar is a good example of compulsive honesty.

Smacked in a lift.

 

[crysede]

Hi Sandia, how are this morn cutie

The terms are pretty similar in meaning - but I think he meant the act of lying vs. the trait of being dishonest, which do denote two different things.

 

[The_Anarchist]

Only in the sense that one is a sub set of the other.

 

[crysede]

Only in the sense that one is a sub set of the other.

I was thinking more along the lines of the two concepts being different in that one is an action and the other a personality trait