Discussion of story by Op Cit, 01/21/05

[Op_Cit]

Story by Op Cit, 01/21/05

{NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR, 2-06-05; although the thread had an official looking title, the story is essentially posted as a 'drop in,' as occasionally happens. It's unclear what, if any, role the author wishes to play in the main proceedings of the Story Discussion Circle. He seems to be opposed to the 'queue' set-up. [See below]}



(Hope I got that thread label right for getting feedback/discussion)


OK, here's the link to my latest quick and dirty story: Best Intentions

http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=181371

It's mind control category, but I was hoping this came off a little more mainstream (wider appeal) than most MC.

Don't feel compelled to get picky about grammar or spelling, I know there may be issues, but I really wanted feedback on more general stuff. This was three hours from the idea popping into my head to submitting it to Lit, so it only got one (self) read through. I felt when I posted it that it was about a 3.75 and that I might be able to polish it to a 4 or 4.5 (heck, adding incest will pop anything by +1.0), but I was more interested in getting it on here to discuss.

Flow - Please point out the major sharp corners. I tried a number of new things in this story (for me) and I'd like to see what people thought didn't work.

You should by the end understand where I was trying to take things. How did the transition of the main character go for you as a reader?

Ending a bit stupid? cheesey? screwed it up? fill in the blank please.

Finally: my major objectives were to take this character through a transition, do it in a short story 3k words (I think it's a bit over that), and make it sufficiently erotic. The whole time I kept flogging myself to tighten things up (less words, more eroticism). Please point out any problems/failures in this and any suggestions for how to achieve what I was going for (less words/erotic/character transformation)...

Thanks,
OC

 

[BlackShanglan]

Op-Cit -

I'm going to follow the "comment as I go" format, which I like both because it lets me capture ideas while they are fresh in my mind and because it lets the author see how the reader interacts with the text as it unfolds. That's been very helpful to me when people have followed that method on my stories, so I thought I would pass it on.

I like the orderly's dialogue. It comes across as pleasantly realistic and simple. I also like the doctor's grasp of the simple human nature of the issue - the desire on the orderly's part to get through the night as simply as possible and make this patient someone else's problem. I always enjoy it when an author takes time to make the minor characters and details persuasive and intelligently thought out - not just "the orderly did this because my plot needed him to do it."

The patient's frantic pleading, coupled with his odd behavior and of course the MC category, for me create a pleasant level of suspense and suspicion as to his situation. I'm oddly reminded of the character Reese in "The Terminator," strapped to his chair and screaming warnings. I feel sympathy for the patient from the first, as the impression I get is of someone basically decent trying to save the doctor from an impulse he can't control. That impressive deepens as you move to the prisoner's sedation and his change from frantic to sorrowful. I like the emotional transition there.

(On the minor tweaks end of things, "like a pleading puppy dog" didn't work for me. I found it both too passive and too well-worn a phrase. The rest of this is nicely fresh so far, so I have no doubt that you can supplant this with a more powerful image.)

Ahhhhh wait. I wrote that above, and then I saw this: "She thought she could see how he might appear distinguished with his hair combed back and shaved clean." That's quite a change from the previous description of him as thoroughly uninteresting, and I begin to suspect that you're going elsewhere with this. Ah, nicely done if you are. Are you trying to show me her changing mental state, and the slow erosion of her resistance to him?

Katherine felt a wave of sympathy flow through her. Her plans for a quick preliminary examination were pushed aside as she now felt the need to help this poor man. She leaned forward, unconsciously displaying more of her cleavage, and said, "I'll help you James, you just need to tell me what it is that you're afraid of."

You certainly are. Loving it now!

Great mixture of pleas and seduction from the patient. I love the way that his claims that he doesn't want to take advantage of women and that he wants to be loved from himself serve a double function - denying his desire to control the doctor, and yet at the same time driving his control home as he charms her with those very words. Quite delightful, and I love the ambiguity there - is he really trying to spare her, to excuse himself, or to seduce her - or something of all of those?

Mmm. Delicious change in his speech and manner as he gives in. I love the progression of the characters' behavior and reactions.

I loved the ending as well. I saw the comments on the story discussion board, but personally I very much enjoyed the way you handled it. Your decision to cut back your work to the most vital elements was an excellent one that results in a lean, well-paced story. I feel that I can learn from examining your ability to convey the sexuality in very character-driven terms - more sense of desire, less minute enumeration of physical actions. I really must go more that way myself!

On the development and transiton of the characters, I think that you achieve your goals very nicely. I caught the turning point but did not find it too heavy-handed; I enjoyed that moment of doubt before the "ah ha!" As you note, there are a few minor mechanical issues, but nothing that really derails the story. I think it's fine work, and a great premise for this category as well.

Shanglan

 

[Op_Cit]

(On the minor tweaks end of things, "like a pleading puppy dog" didn't work for me. I found it both too passive and too well-worn a phrase. The rest of this is nicely fresh so far, so I have no doubt that you can supplant this with a more powerful image.)

Thanks Shang,

(How do other lazy people abbreviate your moniker?)

I sent you a thank you on the PC before I saw your review here. Much appreciated.

This is exactly the kind of rough edge thing I was looking for, and I remember when I wrote it that I was grasping for something (not too pleased with that phrase but not sure how to indicate what was going).

You did seem to get over that bump and back into it and see where I was going, and that is encouraging.

Great mixture of pleas and seduction from the patient. I love the way that his claims that he doesn't want to take advantage of women and that he wants to be loved from himself serve a double function - denying his desire to control the doctor, and yet at the same time driving his control home as he charms her with those very words.

Your take on patient is pleasing to see: a totally unplanned artifact of the my writing. I like it when people take a story further than what I intended, it means I sparked your imagination. As much as I prefer the constructive criticism this makes me feel good.

I very much appreciate your taking the time to do this.

OC

 

[Pure]

Queue

Hi OC,

I gather you were here a while ago, when KM was around. Welcome back.

There is a queue, and probably without intending it, you jumped it. There are two ahead of you. I wish you had read the sticky and the information thread or contacted someone before starting this thread. To enter the process you would post a note in the 'sticky' thread, now functioning as a queue, overseen by me.

My preference, unless I hear some evidence I've misconstrued the situation is to put this thread on hold untl Feb 6.

I see only one critique in the last year, so that needs to be fixed also. Your presence is welcome, but there are protocols everyone has been following for some time.

I have no 'powers' of deletion or 'capping' so I'd ask other in favor of keeping a queue in order to postpone contributing here. I have no way of 'enforcing' that.

 

[Op_Cit]

Hi Pure,

Sorry about the confusion.

When last I was active this was moderated and very clear how things worked. When I popped back in this last week I took a look and couldn't make sense of it. (The official main sticky wasn't different than the last time I'd seen it, and yet things were not being handled in that way.)

I did email someone I knew to be active to ask what's the protocol now and the answer was just go ahead and post and contribute.

Right away the first thing I did was look for a story to start providing feedback. Penelope's seemed the most recent with the others being so old that I thought my feedback would be missed.

So, why the queue when there was never one in the past?

I'm never around with regularity, but I try to provide quality contribution when I'm here. Today I had time and could and would have been willing to do three review/discussions had they been posted.

Sorry to jump into your queue, didn't mean to do that. I apologize to the authors waiting to get feedback but...

You need to put these people up as soon as they want feedback so that their needs as writers and the needs of the potential reviewers can be met. I have no doubt that natural cause and effect will provide requestors with a level of feedback quality on par with their own feedback contributions.

How do I go about changing the name of my thread so that it is not confused with those in your selection process?

OC

 

[Pure]

Clarification, details

Hi OC

Thanks for understanding. I was here when Killer moderated and, afaik, there was a queue. At any rate there is now, one 'official' story each week. She is not now active, nor doing 'moderating.'

The requirement is the same. Two critiques in the past year. That was true with KM.

IF you can, you could retitle your thread. "My story, Feedback please." BUT that's what the 'story feedback' forum is for, not, mainly, this "Circle." In SF you get no strings feedback. In fact, I and some others try to prune or 'cap' (end) the threads of folks just turning up, and re-direct the person. Or instruct them to volunteer for the queue. Occasionally some feedback is given this way, but it's not the main operative procedure around here.

I do not understand a couple of your points:

I'm never around with regularity, but I try to provide quality contribution when I'm here. Today I had time and could and would have been willing to do three review/discussions had they been posted.[...]

There is no requirement to 'be around' or be regular. There are several 'SDC-labeled' story threads open to critique, JUST AS Penelope's was. You can contribute to any of those 'official' threads. And you could have.

You need to put these people up as soon as they want feedback so that their needs as writers and the needs of the potential reviewers can be met. I have no doubt that natural cause and effect will provide requestors with a level of feedback quality on par with their own feedback contributions.

IF you want to propose a changed format, do so in the main queue thread, and we'll see what people want. I'm sure you have 'needs': that's what the Author's Hangout and Story Feedback are set up to handle. The 'swap' protocol is in effect, here. If you're here, your needs get met on a 'swap' basis. In other locations you can merely state your need, and see what the free market and other's curiosity or generosity yields.

There is an information thread. And, in the queue thread here, you may ask any regular person. Who told you just to go ahead, btw?

Best,
J.

 

[Op_Cit]

Re: Clarification, details

I do not understand a couple of your points:

....

IF you want to propose a changed ...

Pure,

I was not proposing a change, I was proposing a statement of fact.

Other than Penelope's the last SDC labeled post is from 12/5, over a month old. For me, after a month I don't think about a story again, and I'm usually not around for more than two weeks at a time.

I do not want to put the effort into reviewing someone's story if it's too late to be of use to them.

Back when I did this last time I saw KM put threads out within 2 days of the request being put up. I remember there being at least two or three recent threads. Here's the point:

If you want to enforce a queue then post them as threads as soon as they come in and put future dates on them. Ask contributors to do them in sequence.

I'm not here on a regular basis. I think there must be many authors in the same boat. Nobody is getting paid to do this.

If you tell me there's a queue and I have to wait two weeks for my thread to go up, I've got RL work coming up in the next couple of weeks, and that don't work for me. RESULT: I move on and say, "screw it" and go on with my life. This means that I don't contribute 2:1 helping other authors, in addition to my story not being as good as it can be, or learning something. (Not that my help/feedback has any value.)

(Note it also took 4 days from the submission to the posting at Lit before I had a link available to put in a thread...)

The net result is the system not working: fewer people come here for help, less help is available, repeat.

So how do I change the name on this thread?

OC

P.S. There are long time contributors to the SDC that I'm sure must do way more than 2:1, I think they're saints in that regard.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Re: Queue

There is a queue, and probably without intending it, you jumped it. There are two ahead of you.

My apologies, Pure. The formatting of the message header was so similar that I didn't realize this was out of the queue.

Shanglan

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I thought this one was pretty damned good, but I’m a little confused by the ending. Is she now possessed by an irresitable compulsion for more of James, or are we supposed to think that this whole episode was a hallucination from the start, and that she’s just a patient in the mental hospital? I assume it’s the former, but I’m surprised that the orderly at the end doesn’t mention that it’s Dr. Wells they’re looking at.

In any case I thought it was very good, very well-written, and that it flowed well. I especially liked the way the transformation happened in her: she didn’t just start getting the hots for him, she started framing things in terms of her profession, in terms of helping him. That was very smart.

I think maybe we could have done with a little more of his story. Whatever his “problem” is is of course supposed to remain a mystery, but still I think he could have explained a little more why it was such a problem to him. I don’t know, maybe it’s just that his story got eclipsed by what was happening with the doctor.

I thought the eroticism was, well, very erotic. I think some readers might be disappointed that it stops where it does, but as you said, the story’s about what happens to her and not really about the sexual encounter. We can certainly fill in the blanks.

I’m assuming, of course, that this is supposed to be a little twilight zone type story, where what happens is essentially magical and not subject to rational explanation. As such I think it’s very good, and a beautiful little twist on the usual mind control story.

---dr.M.

 

[Pure]

Hi Op,

I'm sorry the arrangements are not to your liking.

If you tell me there's a queue and I have to wait two weeks for my thread to go up, I've got RL work coming up in the next couple of weeks, and that don't work for me. RESULT: I move on and say, "screw it" and go on with my life.

So be it. I shall assume you don't want to be in the queue, unless I hear otherwise.

Thanks for dropping by.

J.

 

[Op_Cit]

Dr. M,

Thanks very much for the feedback.

As for the ending, it was slap dab, a pure afterthought, gee-what-does-this-do kind of thing.

(I thought the fact that she was the only woman in the story would be enough of identification at the end).

But like I said the end thing was just an afterthought thinking maybe the encounter drives her insane... or maybe something else.

As to the patient's backstory: would you have done this in narrative or dialog? Lengthen the story a bit with his explanations and also extend the Dr's transformation?

As a matter of fact it was the Twilight Zone kind of thing, and I've been struggling with how to phrase a discussion post on AH for this topic:

How do you do a short TZ type story, and is it possible without a Rod Serling prolog/epilog to set the stage/get you going?

Anyway, thanks again,
OC

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Actually, I thought the ending was good. Now that I know that you fully intended to show that she’d gone nuts, I just think maybe you could have come down with a better final chord, so to speak (I can hear the final Twilight Zone stinger chord as I write). You might like to give us a hint as to what happened to James (or maybe you just want to keep ot ambiguous), and just a mention that no one knows what drove Dr. Wells out of her mind. Maybe she’s lying there whispering “James, James…” to herself. I don’t know. I kind of like the idea that James is out there somewhere running in his straightjacket with all these women after him, leaving a trail of crazy women in his wake.

Also, it’s kind of interesting to wonder whether this is really a sex story, or a kind of horror story. The way it is now, I think it’s a horror story with sex. I was soprry to see the sex end so soon, because you did such a good job with her transformation. That was fun and interesting to read. I could have used more of that. The idea of the doc half-undressed and bouncing up and down on his cock just kind of appeals to me. But maybe I’m just kind of twisted that way.

---dr.M.

 

[Penelope Street]

I found 'Best Intentions' to be a good read as well.

I'll leave a more thorough review in a few days when I have more time. I want to get a story of my own submitted this weekend.

Take Care,
Penny