Discussion Group Story one: Ride for Pleasure 04/03/01

[Weird Harold]

This is the first story discussion group thread. The randomly selected story is in the Erotic Couplings category:

Ride for Pleasure (http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=9618)
By Bubba402001




The author has been notified via E-mail and offered a chance to post an introduction or objection to this discussion, therefore discussion should be delayed until Noon Monday 04 March 2001 (PST), which will give the author 36 hours to respond and those who wish to participate time to read the story.

Please limit replies to this thread to comments on the story and give the author time to respond before beginning.

 

[christo]

Greetings!

This is the discussion group for "Ride for Pleasure", the first in what will hopefully be a recurring thread with different stories critiqued. The idea behind this is to get folks to read a particular story and then have everyone give their opinions on what they liked, or didn't like, about the story.

If you want to read the thread that had everyone discussing setting up a group like this, just click on the following link to get the lowdown: http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=25777

As Weird Harold posted above, hold off before you post anything until 12NOON on Monday. And then, let it all hang out! Let's have some fun and maybe even learn something!

 

[KillerMuffin]

PSSSSSTTTTT! *whispering* You need to pick a time zone for the 12 noon thing!

 

[christo]

Uhh...

That's a very good point. My noon ain't your noon, necessarily. How 'bout we just say the polls are now open, let the discussion begin!

Anybody else got this flu thing going around? Can't shake it.

 

[alexander tzara]

Shit. I posted that too early.

 

[Flagg]

Before we begin is the deadline Monday 5th March or Monday 4th March? Needs clarifying as according to my sources there won't be a Monday 4th March until 2002 by which time we will have all moved on.

 

[Deborah]

There is something very strange in the water surrounding the White Island.

 

[alexander tzara]

Yes, you're quite right, Deborah. And I'm damn sure "XMAN" is behind it.

OK, I don't know when Midday PMT is but Greenwich Mean Time was 8 hours ago, so we must be pretty close, and I've got other things to do, so here are my thoughts.

BUBBA:
I think it's a good erotic situation and you describe the sex well but there are a couple of things I thought were distracting. You should put speech in inverted commas and start a new paragraph for each new person speaking. Instead of:

She slapped me playfully on the back and said keep both hands on the handlebars silly. I told her it was ok just relax darlin and enjoy the ride.

it should be:

She slapped me playfully on the back and said, "Keep both hands on the handlebars, silly".

I told her, "Just relax, darlin', and enjoy the ride".

Also, I don't know if it was just a mistake (if it was - try not to have mistakes in the first paragraph) but take care not to mix up the tenses like this:

As the wind blew in our faces we rode down the lonely country road. The feel of the motorcycle gliding effortlessly down the road. I feel her body pressed against mine as we ride. We have been this way before but today is different.

If the action is taking place in the present - now instead of the past - it should all be in the present tense, like this:

As the wind blows in our faces, we ride down the lonely, country road. The feel of the motorcycle gliding effortlessly. I feel her body pressed against mine as we ride. We have been this way before but today is different.

I also made another change just there that I would have made if this was one of my stories I was editing. I missed out "down the road" in the second sentence, 'cause I think it makes the style better and tightens the paragraph. You have: "...we ride down the lonely, country road" in the first sentence, so I thought that repeating "road" in the second sentence, sounds a little bit clumsy. Try not to repeat the same words too many times in the same paragraph unless you're doing it for a stylistic reason, like here:

A man had a horse, and he said to that horse, "I like you, horse. Do you like me too?"

The horse looked at the man, who was the owner of the horse, and shook his head, saying, "Nay!".

I hope this is helpful for future stories, Bubba.

MR TZARA'S CRITIC TROLL: "You never mentioned incomplete sentences, and what the fuck was all that about the horse?"

 

[Weird Harold]

Ok, so I'm calendericaly challenged.

Before we begin is the deadline Monday 5th March or Monday 4th March? Needs clarifying as according to my sources there won't be a Monday 4th March until 2002 by which time we will have all moved on.

The time is now: 1200hrs PST Monday (whatever the date is now.)

---
The story begins:
"As the wind blew in our faces we rode down the lonely country road. The feel of the motorcycle gliding effortlessly down the road. I feel her body pressed against mine as we ride. We have been this way before but today is different."

In the first paragraph, there is a missing comma, a sentence fragment, and a mixture of verb tenses -- Not an auspicious start from a technical standpoint.

However, in spite of the nitpicking of the first paragraph, this is a very good story, with good imagery and a fresh scenario.

I can forgive minor technical errors when they don't hinder my enjoyment of a good story.

 

[nitengale]

Feedback for “Ride for Pleasure”: The theme of the story is good! I always imagined bikers to enjoy more of their bikes than just the transportation aspects!! My only suggestion would be to watch sentence structure and punctuation. I also got hung up with the idea that one could zoom down the road, and have one hand so busy behind their backs. Is it really that easy? I kept trying to visualize this.

“I want more freedom to move my hand around so I pull it out and unbutton and unzip her shorts.” (What was pulled out?)

The boxer and the speed bag...what does this mean? I got lost here. Could just be my own ignorance =)

Finally, your efforts to “open her cervix”...you can thrust all you want, but that will not happen…...best you can do is bruise the hell out of it, or injure yourself trying.

Just my thoughts! Hope they are helpful. (I’m new at this writing too, so I am learning right along with you) =)

 

[christo]

Vrrrrooommmm...

I've never driven a motorcycle before, but I did think as I read the story that it would be goddam difficult to drive and diddle at the same time. Then again, where there's a will there's a way, and if you really, REALLY wanted to mess around with a girl on a bike I guess it could be done.

As I read this I thought the situation could have been finessed somewhat. Maybe she could fondle him as they rode, or, if the man had to be the instigator, he could have asked the woman if SHE wanted to drive the bike, he'd be more than happy to give her a "lesson", show her how to drive it. And then, as she carefully steered the bike down the freeway, his hands would have been free to explore her as he wished. The chance of a catastrophic accident as he manipulated her would have added to the tension!

As other people have stated, breaking out what the characters say in quotes would help the flow of the story, help differentiate what is said and what is described. And the tenses should be consistent. But those are problems that are easily dealt with, a few keystrokes here and there.

A point for discussion: There is little or no description of the physical characteristics of the two people in this story. This is not a criticism-- in fact, it can actually be a good thing. I think we've all read stories where the author begins by saying, "I'm a 19 year old guy with brown hair and brown eyes and a 9 inch dick. Bambi was a 20-year-old blonde with blue eyes and 38DD tits."

The author rushes to describe the characters in minute detail, not allowing the reader to build an image in their mind. In this story, we don't know how old these people are, what they look like, what their relationship is. We can fill that in ourselves, as WE imagine them.

So, my question is (finally), do you prefer stories where there are carefully detailed descriptions, or where the reader is allowed to fill in the blanks. And how did people imagine these two people, what do they look like, etc...

 

[Derya]

I agree with a number of the comments already made and have some additional thoughts. There could be some improvement with the grammar and punctuation as mentioned. And yes a couple of the descriptions aren't realistic like the cervix opening and the male fondling her so explicitly as he steers and drives, but are they meant to be truly realistic or are they as the male lover sees them to be. This story is told from the view of the male lover, I kind of took it that this is HIS PERCEPTION of the reactions to their lovemaking etc. Is this exactly how it is? Who knows it can be how it is to him.

The concept of the motorcycle and enjoying the ride and the rush of the air blowing is all very enticing to me as one who loves to ride though seldom gets to. It's also captures the "pleasant free wheeling" image of motorcycle enthusiasts that a lot of people have. The lover knew his woman very well and that was stimulating and his interest in giving her the gift of a "wonderful, unique ride" was romantic.

The comments about how the lovers are actually not described, is observant. That can be a good technique at times and other times details describing characters are nice. I often find that without descriptions provided I imagine characters similar to myself or my circle of acquaintances. Sometimes even without vivid descriptions of looks something brings a particular image to mind. In this case I pictured a late 30's female with dark long hair and an early 40's male with average length salt and pepper hair, both of average build (not large, not lean). The reason this image came to mind for me was the mention of a Goldwing which is a very expensive and less sporty bike and is often the choice more financially established and mature riders. At least that's my perception. Also the male telling the story sounded full of admiration and respect for his lover and their relationship did not sound brand new.

I enjoyed it and it is not one I would have possibly picked to read without the discussion thread. So very good overall.
http://megsplace.com/dolls/hatnature.gif

 

[SpecialK]

A Ride For Pleasure

heehee...

Well, all grammatical concerns aside for the moment, this was a good story.

My first thought, however, was 'What kind of contortionist is this guy?! He's feeling up the woman riding BEHIND him while driving a motorcycle.' I kept waiting for an accident.

I liked the line, "You have to remember there is plenty of room to relax on a Gold Wing." which was near the beginning. Personally, I haven't a friggen clue what kind of space we're talking about here, but that line was so matter-of-fact. heehee. My reaction, as a reader clueless about motorcycles, was 'Of course! Tons of room!'

What else... let's see...

The characters. Not that developed, but perhaps that was Bubba's intent. If, as suggested above, this was a male fantasy of the scene, it works well. I think I would have liked to know more about the characters (not the cliche details about her breast size, his penis size, etc) but just a little bit to round them out. The dialogue (although hidden in paragraphs) did make the man seem like the type who would ride a bike.

Yes, there were problems with structure. Paying attention to the suggestions provided here, consulting the Writer's Resources here at Lit and discussing with a Volunteer Editor will help smooth out those rough edges.

Despite the grammatical stumbling blocks, I found it didn't overly impact my ability to enjoy the story. It aroused me.

Definate potential as a Literotica writer, Bubba!

K

[Edited by SpecialK on 03-05-2001 at 03:56 PM]

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: A Ride For Pleasure

...consulting the Writer's Resources here at Lit and discussing with a Volunteer Editor will help smooth out those rough edges.

I should point out that this story (and any other story randomly chosen) may predate the writer's resources and volunteer editor's program.

A couple of people have mentioned the plausibility of fondling a woman who is sitting behind the driver of a motorcycle. To those people, I suggest you put your hand behind you with the back of your hand against the small of your back. Now imagine a woman sitting close behind you and where your fingers would be in relation to her. It's not implausible at all.

Also, the gyroscopic effect of the motorcycles spinning wheels make them much more stable than non-riders might think, so The scene isn't nearly as hazardous as it seems.

I didn't notice the lack of description or character definition to any great degree. There is enough that I can care about this couple, and little enough that I can put myself in the driver's place. That's a pretty good balance for a story this short.

 

[nitengale]

So the bottom line .... those with better knowledge of motorcycles and their stability on the road, despite the speed and what the driver is doing with his hands off the handlebars, will enjoy the story more because they won't sit there thinking about the potential of a crash. =)

 

[KillerMuffin]

Considering that he's on a Goldwing here, it's not that hard to mess around on a bike. It's very heavy (only bike with reverse) and once it's going down the road, it's not that hard to keep balanced on. I think the visual effect of him seeing her nipples would have been more believable if she'd been reclining on the tank in front of him, rather than sitting behind him, but I don't know if the Goldwing's countours are good for that.

I didn't like the tense very much, but present tense irritates me anyway. The narrative voice of the story was of a man telling the story to a confidant - I get this impression from the use of the word "you" - and the present tense pretty much butchered the intimacy of using that voice, not to mention limited it.

"Her whole body is quivering if one didn't know better you would think she was have a seizure." <-- This sentence confused the heck out of me. Which is it? Is the author talking to someone in particular, "you," or to the world in general? The bursts of omniscience have to go as well. How does he know what she's thinking? "Her mind is ablaze and she cannot focus on anything as she slowly slips into a state of overload and her mind shuts down and she spasms against me."

The image of the bike I had in mind was more of a street bike, not a big touring bike, something that had more vibration and less comfort. Of course, my experience on a bike was a Harley FXR.

I think it's interesting the different ways a single "prop" in a story can affect the image a reader has of the people in the story. For instance, I have the impression that some people think of the guy in the story as a "biker" with the whole HOG member persona, whereas I think GoldWing, I think of a upper middle class kinda guy with a good haircut and nice clothes.

There are three characters in this particular story, one of them is developed incorrectly, the other two are developed okay. The narrator in this story is an important character, he has a voice and a personality and it's trying to come through, I think. Either that or I'm reading too much into the sentence "You have to understand..."

Character development? I think there is enough of it as it stands for the two main characters. Do you really need a physical description? Do you have to know what color her hair is? Do you have to know if he's tall and slim or average height with a beer belly and a Grateful Dead t-shirt? Description can be confused with development, when that's not what it is at all. Development has to do with what characters do and think, not what they look like. I build my impression of what people look like based on that. Sometimes it's wrong, most times it's not what the author had in mind.

Taking some corrective measures on the grammar and punctuation would help solve some of the developmental issues, I think. It would make the author consider the use of his words a bit more and he could add or shift words and phrases that are connotative about character. However, the whole grammar thing could be overlooked if he wrote it from the point of view of a man relating the story his buddy after the fact, since it would be told in a person's grammatically incorrect voice. Though complete sentences are still required here, people tend to think in complete sentences.

Another issue I have is the whole I'M CUMMING OOOOOOHH YELLING IN CAPS IN THE MIDDLE OF A STORY thing. A good story never uses it because the "screaming caps" isn't needed to emphasize what's happening. I don't like them, I tend to lose a little bit of respect for a story that uses them. The context of the story should be enough to show me that they're feeling pretty powerful things.

The whole cervix thing seems to be a general ignorance about the names applied to parts of the female anatomy. I don't think he realizes that the cervix is the opening to the uterus and a bad place to try to stick things despite erotic stories to the contrary.

[Edited by KillerMuffin on 03-06-2001 at 06:09 AM]

 

[Gus]

Ride for Pleasure

Others have commented on the technical shortcomings of this first 'Discussion Subject' so I'll just say that had I ordinarily selected it to read, I would have given up after the first few paragraphs. It is only because it is the first for the discussion group that I persevered.

Others have found that the bad English didn't interfere with their appreciation of the story. For me, it is a major turn-off. Such stuff detracts too much. I like to be moved smoothly through the story, eager to find out what happens next.

This is not a story, simply an erotic episode. It should have been sent to an editor or two before sending for submission. Although as WeirdHarold points out, perhaps such facility was not available on the board.

Gus

 

[christo]

I don't think that an editor would have turned this from an "episode" into a "story". Yes, the grammer and structure could be improved, and an editor could have provided some valuable feedback, but I think the actual situation presented is sufficient to make an interesting read.

There are stories of all lengths and levels of complexity on Literotica. Some are just wham-bam descriptions of a sexual act, some are more ambitious, with involved plots and characterization. Some readers don't want 5,000 words stories, they just want to read some good sexy stuff. I prefer longer stories, and the stories I've posted tend to be long, but there's a place for "episodes" as well.

 

[KillerMuffin]

As an editor I would have had him fix most of the grammar mistakes, change the tense into past tense, and give the narrator a personality. I would have given a better description of the motorcycle for those not familiar with goldwings. I wouldn't have actually added very much to the story itself, I liked it the way it was. Well, except for the mechanical problems.

 

[SteamyChik]

I enjoyed this story all the way through. The descriptions of what he did to her were sexy. It's just what I thought it would be from the title. A nice, fun story about sex on the road.

As mentioned in previous posts, the story would have been easier to read if the punctuation, grammar and tenses had all lined up. Also, the guy kept telling me what her thoughts and feelings were and I wondered how he know.

Overall though, I enjoyed the story and didn't let the little stuff bug me. The sex was great and worked for me.

 

[KillerMuffin]

How important are the "props" that the characters use in stories? Like the Goldwing in this story. I think it's extremely important. Motorcycles give very evocative images about the people who ride them. Think of a big, loud Harley like in Easyrider, or a cafe racer like a Katana, or a sleek BMW Enduro, a little Rebel with muffler problems, or even the extraordinarily huge and overwhelmingly comfortable Honda Goldwing. Each bike evokes a different image of the people who ride it.

This guy rides a motorcycle, what is the first image of the man that comes to mind? A Hell's Angel type? A Malcolm Forbes kind of guy? A rebel? A financially well of man trying to relive his youth?

I didn't really have an image of the man based on the bike, but I did have the immediate impression of a rebellious Harley rider down in Arizona with at least one felony conviction. A few paragraphs down I discover the main character owns and is riding a Goldwing. The image shifted to a man who is over 40, financially well off, a portfolio that is worth more than my house, well cut hair, a professional who just enjoys the relative freedom his big old motorcycle gives him when he tours the country on it.

I'm wondering what other people saw when they read the first paragraph. What did the man look like to them? Was it based on the description of the man or based on the stereotypical image of a motorcycle rider?

 

[nitengale]

Honestly...I read Bubba's bio, saw his picture and placed him on the motorcycle. In a nutshell.

I also believe some props are important to character and story development It's how I develop my image of the characters and their surroundings in any written work. Makes the story a bit more believable at times.

 

[Bubba402001]

Hello, All who wrote about my story. I do thank you for all the input good and bad. I know my grammer and punctuation need to help. And yes I see the tense changes that were spoke of. As for the sex while riding on the bike I wrote that from a driver of motorcycles for many years and don't say that all riders should try it. (chuckling)

RE to Nitengale, Sorry about you missing the fact the drivers hand was up her shorts leg and he had to remove it to undo her shorts. As for the cervix comment in the story it has been my personal experiance that the cervix will open when a woman is excited and extreamly turned on. Sorry if that confused you also. Just wrote that from being there doing that.

RE Christo, Sorry not that hip on women driving my scooter and that is where this story comes from was my memories. And if she was driving the last thing I want is a woman to be having an orgasm while in control of two wheels. Would like some feedback on that from the women. Could you handle having an orgasm and driving a motorcycle? Might make for a good return story. And I leave the people in the story to be developed by the reader that way they can put themselves in the story if they wish.

RE Derya, Yes the male fondling her in that fashion is possible I do it quite often. Makes those long rides go by faster.

RE SpecialK, Sorry I didn't describe the bike better. Being a life long rider I forget that there are people out there that don't know one from the other.

RE Weird Harold, I would say you have rode before.

RE KillerMuffin, Were to start!! Again sorry you missed that He was looking at her nipples in the mirror. And the way I describe what the lady feels is from a lifetime of asking my wifes,lovers, and female friends what they like and what they feel in their minds and bodies as they go through orgasms. I strive to understand what a female feels and sees in her mind so that i can best describe it so she to can get into the story as well as the men. I receive emails from ladies wanting to know how it is I can describe a female orgasm so well and how I understand it. Sorry about the caps in the middle of the story I will work on that.

RE Gus, It may just be an erotic episode but was it erotic from that aspect?

RE KittyKatt, Sounds to me like you should be named TigerKatt.

And to Nitengale again thank you for looking at the profile and noticing that I am a motorcycle rider.

Thank you all for your insight and your views and I will try to learn from them. As i hope we all have learned something from this and we take it to the story that is discussed next week.

Everyone remember it is not personal in the comments and we are here to learn . Thank You Bubba

 

[christo]

I'd like to thank Bubba for letting us discuss his story and for accepting our comments with good humor. I do regret somewhat that the ranking for this story fell quite a bit during the discussion, but I hope the comments and feedback you received made up for that!

Man, I just GOTTA get me a motorcycle one of these days. Nothing like asking a pretty young thing if she wants to put on some leather and go for a midnight ride through the hills.

So, was this a worthwhile exercise? I hope people enjoyed the discussion and maybe even learned a little. Please feel free to continue posting comments or replies to Bubba. Do we want to do this again? Should Weird Harold pull out his abacus and cruch some numbers and pick another story? Any ideas on how this could be improved? Other than me not getting bronchitis and missing most of it? I am sick as a DOG.

 

[Weird Harold]

RE Weird Harold, I would say you have rode before.

Not really. I've never ridden anything the size of a Goldwing, and haven't ridden anythinag at all for over twenty years -- at least not anything with a motor. <G>

I do, however, understand the physics of how a motorcycle or bicycle is more stable at speed than it is when going slow, and have a knack with spatial relationships -- ie what parts can be reached from which position.

I do think that you could benefit from the volunteer editor program. Almost all of the flaws in your story were technical aspects of writing, rather than any flaw in your storytelling ability. It was apparent, to me, that you knew quite a bit about riding bikes.

It is a common flaw that writers forget that the reader isn't as familiar with story elements as the writer is. I've had several friends over the years who were fascinated with motorcycles so I had an idea of what a "GoldWing" was and could form a workable image. Others who don't know the difference between a Husqvarna motocross bike and a GoldWing touring bike would'nt get the same impressions I did.