Disappointments

[artful]

Submissives, how do you handle the disappointments that happen between you and your Dom/me? Often in a NEW relationship, when it is first being formed, unexpected events happen that give disappointments
to YOUR expectations.

These are the moments that are filled with fear, doubt, and worry. Often as not, in the BEGINNING, there is not much to hold on to. No proven track record, no history,...only faith in taking these first steps into the unknown.

In a newly formed relationship, (expected by both Dom/me and sub, to be LONG TERM), how do you handle those disappointments? Do you question the decisions of your Dom/me? Is it only in your mind, or do you vocalise them?

If their answer is explained in a short message of authority, telling you WHY it must be so, do you accept that,...or do you further question their reasoning, trying to change THEIR mind, and therefore, exert your OWN control over the condition, situation, etc.?

All of the above is referenced toward beginning NEW relationships, the early stages of becoming MORE familiar with each other,...not established ones, where trust and honesty has been developed over time, with a "track record" behind it.

All are welcome to comment,Dom/mes and subs alike.

 

[SexyChele]

Interesting topic, Artful. I'll be interested in how people respond.

For me, well, I'm a little quirky. Guess that comes as no surprise to very many people. I just don't "attach" very quickly. I can be in a "relationship" with a person for months and still have the attitude of "hey, if I see ya next week, great, if not, have a good one, k?" It's only after the relationship has been firmly established, that certain patterns of behavior have developed, and then something interrupts that pattern that I get disappointed.

For example. M and I have now known each other for about 1 1/2 months. We have played, and I do trust him. No, I do not consider him to be my "Master" as that is a title only reserved for a very few men. But I do consider him to be my Dominant. Last weekend, he left me with the words, "I don't know if we can see each next weekend, because I may have to work." Now, I'm leaving to go on vacation the week after that, and then my mother is having major surgery when I get back. So that means if we don't play this weekend, we are looking at mid-October. My attitude? S'ok.

Maybe in a few months (6 or 7), if I have an opportunity to become attached, I might be disappointed. But the relationship is already established.

As far as handling disappointment in a relatively new relationship, it depends on what the matter is. If we are supposed to meet and go out, and something like his job comes up and he can't be there, then yes I'm disappointed. But I can understand, and though I'll miss him and our time together, I'll know it was a situation beyond his control. Besides, it might be me who has something that comes up that causes disappointment, and I would want his understanding as well.

If, on the other hand, he is purposely trying to disappoint me, or I discover he lied to me, that is quite a horse of a different color. Then loss of trust becomes an issue for me, and that I don't handle very well. Normally, I'll simply state my disappointment, and expect to discuss it. If that discussion doesn't happen, or if he feels justified in his actions, then I have a decision to make: do I stay and work through loss of trust, or do I leave? It's at this time I do one of my "disappearing" acts. I'm just gone. Can't be found. I have been known to sometimes leave the country. When I've thought things through and have made a decision, then I'll allow myself to be found again and take it from there.

Not sure if I answered your question, but that's my input.

 

[Quint]

I sympathize highly with your post, Artful. As I'm in the early stages of something that has the potential to be more than merely exquisite, I am still nervous, still unsure of where exactly I fit in to T's life and dreams and goals, and that uncertainty can't help but manifest itself.

Case in point: T's major is extremely time-demanding, requiring not just regular class attendance but all kinds of extracurricular time and energy. Some days I could sit online waiting for him to sign on for hours, and the most I'd get could be a few minutes before he left again. Thank God that doesn't happen often, but it's extremely trying to me. It goes further sometimes, though; in addition to his school life, he has several friends that he hangs out with frequently, and so I have to deal with that as well. None of this is unreasonable! Logically I'm well aware of this. He does what makes him happy. That's how it should be.

God, but it's hard.

Recently I broached this subject to him. Friday is our special night; I have the apartment to myself for most of the night and so he calls me and I can be as loud as I want, lol. So all week, regardless of how little time we've spent interacting, I have something to look forward to. Something to get me through the week. But last Friday he'd made plans to spend time with one of his friends from a production he's in, and so after an hour of chatting he was gone. Saturday morning I didn't feel any better and so I brought it up online. I explained to him that I really don't know where I stand with him. Getting mixed signals between the occasional times he'd explicitly tell me how much I meant to him and the times when I can't tell if his actions are pointing to the opposite. He realized that he hadn't been doing a very good job of reassuring me of my place in his heart, and he also saw that he hadn't been fair to me by forsaking my company for that of people he doesn't even care to be around as much as he does me. And so he said that he'll try not to cheat me out of him, and in return I'll be honest with him when I feel cheated.

Been pretty smooth since then.

I try not to be diffident when I deal with T, Artful. In our relationship we are equal but opposite forces. If there is a problem on my end, I have to let him know about it and expect him to work on it with me, or else we'll topple off balance. I do not by any means try to force him to make a decision, or to change his mind. If the facts weigh in my favor, I expect him to be intelligent enough to recognize that and in that way change his mind.

However, I'm a big fan of conversation and debate, and so I'm not likely to accept it as a "it's this way because I say so." I think that's poor reasoning and a Dom/me cheapen their submissive by not permitting them to use their intelligence in an actual conversation. It also puts undue pressure on the Dom/me to be right all the time, or close enough to it that fracture lines don't appear in the submissive's trust in their Dom/me. I wouldn't say that to a child. Everyone has a right to know why a decision is best. That's the point of being a rational human being. Luckily for me, T and I are in agreement on this point. o)

 

[artful]

Chele

Interesting topic, Artful. I'll be interested in how people respond.

Not sure if I answered your question, but that's my input.

Thanks for responding with your insights, as always, you express your thoughts well.

 

[artful]

Quint

Originally posted by Quint I explained to him that I really don't know where I stand with him. <snip> I see this as initiating an OPEN discussion.^

He realized that he hadn't been doing a very good job of reassuring me of my place in his heart, and he also saw that he hadn't been fair to me, by forsaking my company for that of people he doesn't even care to be around as much as he does me. <snip> I see this as communication^.

If there is a problem on my end, I have to let him know about it and expect him to work on it with me, or else we'll topple off balance. <snip>
I see this as honesty.^

Thank you for responding, IMO,...you have given us ALL an example of how disappointents, SHOULD be handled.

 

[A Desert Rose]

In the beginning

of a relationship, disappointment is just another flavor to the romance, bittersweet perhaps but one more flavor, indeed. Many times we cause our own disappointments, for instance, when we expect certain behaviors that just don't happen.

Putting expectations on others, especially in the beginning, is what causes the most disappointments and the greatest amount of failure. When we expect our potential love interest or future Dom/me to behave a certain way, in a way that they have no idea they are expected to behave in, both partners are set up for failure. Disappointment and frustration follows, with quite a bit of heartache thrown in.

Just an opinion piece- MINE

Rose

 

[artful]

Re: In the beginning

Putting expectations on others, especially in the beginning, is what causes the most disappointments and the greatest amount of failure.

Rose

Thanks for your contribution ADR, a valid point for us all to consider.

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

Re: In the beginning

Putting expectations on others, especially in the beginning, is what causes the most disappointments and the greatest amount of failure. When we expect our potential love interest or future Dom/me to behave a certain way, in a way that they have no idea they are expected to behave in, both partners are set up for failure. Disappointment and frustration follows, with quite a bit of heartache thrown in.

Rose

Artful, I agree with Rose on this one. I think that its the expectations we bring to a relationship that sets us up for the disappointments that follow. If one can accept their new partner on an as is basis, without any preconceived ideas of how that person should act; life would be so much simpler. IF............................ Frogs had wings.

-kym-

 

[cymbidia]

My POV is from the submissive in the early stages (just since the middle of July) of a fully D/s BDSM relationship that's gaining i value and strength and importance every day.

Submissives, how do you handle the disappointments that happen between you and your Dom/me?

I'd like to say that i talk it out and stay absolutely truthful, and speak my fears openly, all the time but i don't.

I get afraid and go quiet. [color=dark-blue]Quiet[/color] isn't a natural state for me but he doesn't really know that yet since it is a natural state for him. We're working through it, slowly, though.

In any case, i go quiet.
Then my brain begins battling my heart.
and then i get very confused and uncertain--and scared, Frightened. That leads to more confusion. More withdrawal. It's an ugly circle.

Fortunately, i trust his words and i trust the genine care and emotion for me, for what is between us, that underlies those words. I trust him to tell me the truth. He doesn't lie to me, hasn't yet, about anything at all. I trust him.

When i get scared, disappointed, uncertain, confused, i get quiet.
I have to process my feelings, my worries and pain and concerns until i can find a way to make them make sense to me.

Then i can say them to him.

I try not to just unload. It's not fair to either of us. I'm not always successful at it, either, but i try not to do it.

In a newly formed relationship, (expected by both Dom/me and sub, to be LONG TERM), how do you handle those disappointments? Do you question the decisions of your Dom/me? Is it only in your mind, or do you vocalise them?

I try not to jump to conclusions about his decisions, though i will ask if i need to know. I try to think through why he might have chosen the way he did. I try to kep in my mind that he wants the best for me and for him, for us.

I accept, always, that i might not agree with his decisions, and that they might not be the decisions i would make, but that they are his to make. In the end, in our relationship, the decisions about us and many that pertain to me alone, too, are his to make and mine to obey.

If their answer is explained in a short message of authority, telling you WHY it must be so, do you accept that,...or do you further question their reasoning, trying to change THEIR mind, and therefore, exert your OWN control over the condition, situation, etc.?

I do not question.
I don't try to wheedle.
I don't try to get my way.

I accept his decision and set about finding a way to embrace it for him, for us, forthe sake of what lies between us.

If it's of extreme importance to me, then i ask, very respectfully, for the freedom to speak plainly. When allowed to doso, i restate my feelings/needs/desires/whatever and ask, again, for him to consider my views. I try to be succint and i don't go over the same territory again, if it's been covered.

There are areas in my life where my opinion overrides his. Anything having to do with my kids or my work, even peripherally, are areas in which i get automatic overide powers. For example, he'd definitely have had me get a tongue piercing already if i wasn't concerned about its effect on both kids and work. So it remains on the "to do" list, down the road.

Excellent discussion topic, Artful; thank you.

 

[MissTaken]

Given my relative inexperience:

And given that this is my first expereince with a true Dom, I am on unfamiliar ground.

I am quite used to being with Doms who can and need to be topped from teh bottom. I may even test them by trying to manipulate or change their mind. When it works, there is it's own disappointment.

With my new friend/Dom, I would not try these things, nor do I feel a need to. When I am in my submissive frame of mind, I am quiet, take the disappointment and quietly review whether the decision will make a drastic difference or impact on anything important. Then, I accept it, sometimes sadly, but knowing that there is a reason or method to his choices.

And with him, I am always in "sub mode." *big smile*

Now, something that did carry a potential impact happened the other evening when he seemed very aloof. We just didn't seem to be connected. I thought about it and waited until tonight, when I jokingly said, "I thought you had forgotten me." This, of course, lead to a discussion, short in duration, but long in results. Being so new to one another, it is very easy to misread intentions, text and actions.

 

[artful]

Re: Re: In the beginning

IF............................ Frogs had wings.

-kym-

...OR, they were kissed by a Pillow Princess. Yes,...I understand kym.-LOL Thanks for sharing your opinion with us.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: In the beginning

Artful, I agree with Rose on this one. I think that its the expectations we bring to a relationship that sets us up for the disappointments that follow. If one can accept their new partner on an as is basis, without any preconceived ideas of how that person should act; life would be so much simpler. IF............................ Frogs had wings.

-kym-

Well written kym. So many of the problems develope from misplaced expectations. (I have a friend who has been recently and subtly teaching me this lesson, and I don't think he is aware that he is doing so.)

Misplaced expectations and errant personalization of situations and behaviors are difficult to control at the onset of a new relationship. (sheesh, that sentence even confuses me.) But for the sake of the relationship ever growing, those little "mistakes" in our thought processes need to be handled.

Rose

 

[artful]

Re: Re: Disappointments

Excellent discussion topic, Artful; thank you.

In truth and honesty, I just gotta tell ya cym,...the idea for this thread came from your earlier post on the OWNERSHIP thread.

It got me to thinking about it, and the more I thought about it,...the more I wanted to learn more of others examples.

Thanks much for posting again HERE. I am eager to hear others comments, and read of THEIR examples also, please visit again.

 

[artful]

Re: Given my relative inexperience:

And given that this is my first expereince with a true Dom, I am on unfamiliar ground.
Being so new to one another, it is very easy to misread intentions, text and actions.

Yes,...I agree. It is particularly more difficult in understanding TEXT messages,...their TRUE intent, and that's why LDR's are the toughest to establish and maintain.

Especially when two people meet for the first time,...and messaging in text is what we all use on the internet.

It DOES get a bit easier as voice chat, and/or telephones are used. Then tones and inflections come into play,...and we have BETTER understandings, of each others communications.

Thanks for your post, and continued success to you and your first-True Dom.

 

[WillowPuss]

Submissives, how do you handle the disappointments that happen between you and your Dom/me? Often in a NEW relationship, when it is first being formed, unexpected events happen that give disappointments
to YOUR expectations.

These are the moments that are filled with fear, doubt, and worry. Often as not, in the BEGINNING, there is not much to hold on to. No proven track record, no history,...only faith in taking these first steps into the unknown.

In a newly formed relationship, (expected by both Dom/me and sub, to be LONG TERM), how do you handle those disappointments? Do you question the decisions of your Dom/me? Is it only in your mind, or do you vocalise them?

If their answer is explained in a short message of authority, telling you WHY it must be so, do you accept that,...or do you further question their reasoning, trying to change THEIR mind, and therefore, exert your OWN control over the condition, situation, etc.?

All of the above is referenced toward beginning NEW relationships, the early stages of becoming MORE familiar with each other,...not established ones, where trust and honesty has been developed over time, with a "track record" behind it.

All are welcome to comment,Dom/mes and subs alike.

Ummm Art ... not sure if you want my view on this or not, so will keep quiet for now.

 

[artful]

Re: Re: Disappointments

Ummm Art ... not sure if you want my view on this or not, so will keep quiet for now.

Well,...the thread topic is Disappointments encountered by subs in developing NEW relationships,...and how they handle them.
Yes,...if you would care to respond to it, it would be most appreciated.

I would encourage ALL to participate with their comments,...and with OTHER examples as they might wish to contribute. Thanks for the post Willow.

 

[Quint]

Re: Re: Re: Disappointments

I would encourage ALL to participate with their comments,...and with OTHER examples as they might wish to contribute.

It was a neat coincidence; I posted my initial reply yesterday afternoon and then had it tried later that evening. T has given me the task of improving my flexibility, specifically the ability to grab my toes with my hands standing straight up. He emphasized the stretching of my calves, and, since I'm not particularly familiar with what areas of the body need to be toned for which results, I asked him why exactly he wanted my calves stretched.

He said, "Because I said so."

After I laughed hysterically for a few minutes (to his puzzled silence), I told him about this thread and my response to it. He laughed too, and then chose to give me a more thorough response: because 1.) he enjoys giving me commands and knowing that I will carry them out, 2.) he specifically wants me to be able to grab my toes, and 3.) he has more orders in his mind that he'll give to me later, when I'm as flexible as these stretches permit.

I felt so much better from hearing this! I know how devious and intelligent he is, but being reassured that he DOES have a "master plan" (har har har) really makes me happy and proud of him. And lots more anticipation on MY part, because I know that it wasn't a random order...he has plans for me. This is the main reason why I believe that communication beats short messages of authority, at the very least in the early stages of a relationship.

 

[WillowPuss]

OK

what I will do is take out the bits I feel I can answer - you have to remember that I have been with my husband/Master for over 25 years, but we have only been on our journey into a 24/7 D/s relationship for six months.

Submissives, how do you handle the disappointments that happen between you and your Dom/me?

Do you question the decisions of your Dom/me? Is it only in your mind, or do you vocalise them?

If their answer is explained in a short message of authority, telling you WHY it must be so, do you accept that,...or do you further question their reasoning, trying to change THEIR mind, and therefore, exert your OWN control over the condition, situation, etc.?

I suppose I handle disappointments between me and my Master the same way I handle any disappointment. I swallow hard and move on. I try to understand why it is I cannot have whatever it was that I had hoped for. But, hey, I am supposed to be all grown up ... and I know I can't have everything I would like - that would just make me spoilt and selfish - the sort of person I don't really like.

Do I question Master's decision?
Very rarely - and then only if it is really important to me, or I just cannot see the reason for the refusal. I suppose the only time I would really question would be if I thought that somehow I was at fault and wanted that clarified. On the occasions I do question, I will briefly think it through and then vocalise. Possibly I don't have to vocalise too often as Master will have seen the look of puzlement on my face, or the doubt in my eyes ... and will clarify without being asked.


As for your last question ... once Master has made up his mind, I will not try to change it. Even if I think the decision is wrong, I will not try to change it. If, over the coming days/weeks/months time and circumstances prove me to be right - I do not regret bowing to His will. That is what I offered him when I offered my submission. That is what He deserves - anything less from me and we would just be playing, pretending as it were, to live the lifestyle - not actually doing it.
If I continued to argue/discuss the point in an attempt to change His mind, wouldn't I be topping Him. This is something I have no urge to do ... and so guard against it.

(Silly example for you ... recently, we took our daughter to a town newish to us for a lunch by the river. On the way back to the car we came to a crossroads. She said the carpark was in one direction (and I agreed with her), Master said it was in the other. I followed Master even though I was pretty sure that my daughter and I were right. All it cost me was an extra walk ... but it showed that I would follow His lead.)

 

[artful]

Willow

(Silly example for you ... recently, we took our daughter to a town newish to us for a lunch by the river. On the way back to the car we came to a crossroads. She said the carpark was in one direction (and I agreed with her), Master said it was in the other. I followed Master even though I was pretty sure that my daughter and I were right. All it cost me was an extra walk ... but it showed that I would follow His lead.)

THAT was not a SILLY example,...that was a *GREAT* example,...I am so glad you posted it. It is an example of what TRUE submission SHOULD be.

Thank you very much for posting.

P.S.-If you have any more of those types of examples,...PLEASE,...share them with us.

 

[artful]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Disappointments

This is the main reason why I believe that communication beats short messages of authority, at the very least in the early stages of a relationship.

Of course,...a well thought out communication, explained in detail is BEST,...for early on relationships.

If one would take the example and stretch it out with a proven track record, then you may have been able to simply reply with, "Yes Sir, I will begin that today,...if you wish?"

It does take time to develope that level of trust, but when you get there,...it is truly awesome the surprises and pleasures a sub can receive by being submissive toward their Dom/me.

Personally,...I have difficulty in explaining with great detail WHY I want my sub to do many things. My having to explain in great detail, sometimes, takes away from what I truly wish to accomplish by giving a short message with authority.

Thanks again for posting here Quint-

 

[~Dream~]

reisappointment..

What a great topic especially at such a "crucial' time in my life..
I find myself getting disappointed right and left nowadays..not knowing what to say,how to say it ,yet needing and yearning to "express" so many many feelings I have inside..feelings of guilt for not trusting My Master sometimes as I should...feelings of mistrust..wondering will He REALLY stay "true" to Only me? feelings of concern for His welfare,wondering where He is,How He is when I am not there to care for Him Feelings of Fear..worrying always that I will do or say something to 'anger" Him

Submissives, how do you handle the disappointments that happen between you and your Dom/me?

Do you question the decisions of your Dom/me? Is it only in your mind, or do you vocalise them?
___________________________________
I am a very emotional and sensitive person..I dont handle disappointment well at all..especially if it is my Masterwho is disappointed in 'me"as I feel I strive very very hard to please Him and being in an Ldr makes it harder still..
I try my damndest to 'talk things out" but that sometimes is frustrating as hell as there have been times I do not feel it is in my best interests to even continue the conversation any longer..just asking questions is now considered "topping" for instance..How damn frustrating is that?
what IS a submissive to do/ Just submit? right? if submission means to 'suffer in silence " then I say ..hell no!! Subs have the right to be heard also ..to be rspected since without their "FREE gift of submission"the Dom holds NO power over them..We need that power over us,that control ,however we also Need their patience ,understanding,and for them to really SEE the "GOOD things in us instead of seemingly 'searching for "the bad"' waiting for us to try to "seizethe Control" back lol ..who needs it?? Control=trouble for me ..plain,pure& simple ..however I Do control MY feelings..always have ..lalways will..that part of me stays intact ..no matter what..

everyone has a right to question..I know that Dom's think it is disrespectful ,etc and takes away the 'control" but how else are subs to get their questions answered if the CANNOT ask? hmmm? I can see if the Dom has given them an order to 'do something" but then it becomes a matter of " trust"' which has to be "earned" by the way,it is NOT a free gift like the submission.. JMHO

 

[WillowPuss]

I cannot really address most of this topic as it seems to be speakinh of a LDR - and I have no experience of those at all. I can only really speak from a skin-to-skin perspective, living with my Master.

That said, I will try and answer some of the points raised by Dream. (If I take these out of the context they were meant, please forgive me - it is just how I read them. I may also have to answer in chunks as I gather my thoughts and try to put into words what is running through my brain.)

What a great topic especially at such a "crucial' time in my life..
I find myself getting disappointed right and left nowadays..not knowing what to say,how to say it ,yet needing and yearning to "express" so many many feelings I have inside..feelings of guilt for not trusting My Master sometimes as I should...feelings of mistrust..wondering will He REALLY stay "true" to Only me? feelings of concern for His welfare,wondering where He is,How He is when I am not there to care for Him Feelings of Fear..worrying always that I will do or say something to 'anger" Him

I think that if I were in this situation, I would be looking closely within myself trying to understand why I was feeling so disappointed. Why was it that I wasn't trusting my Master. Had He ever said or done anything that would make me doubt His honesty ... if the answer came back, no ... then I really had no reason to worry and if I kept questioning this aspect then I could expect Him to become angry/upset with me.
As for not being there to take care of Him ... I would just have to ride that one out and stamp on such feelings until I was able to be there to care for Him. No use worrying over something that is totally out of my control.

I am a very emotional and sensitive person..I dont handle disappointment well at all..especially if it is my Masterwho is disappointed in 'me"as I feel I strive very very hard to please Him and being in an Ldr makes it harder still..
I try my damndest to 'talk things out" but that sometimes is frustrating as hell as there have been times I do not feel it is in my best interests to even continue the conversation any longer..just asking questions is now considered "topping" for instance..How damn frustrating is that?

OK ... the first part - I would try and see why it was that my Master was disappointed in me? How would I do this? I would ask, very politely, if He was disappointed with something I had done, or maybe not done; if He was disappointed in something I said/typed, or not said/typed ... and then I would listen. I would bite my tongue and listen without any questions or interruptions until He had finished. I would then ask for time (and set a limit on the time) to think about all he had said.
If, after really thinking about things, and trying to see it from His point of view, I still had questions, I would politely tell Him that I was unsure of a couple of things and might we please speak about them.

Dream - you say "just asking questions is now considered "topping" for instance..".
I will not even presume to try and imagine what goes on between you and Artful. I will answer this as if it were me and Robuck.
If we have been discussing something, questioning something back and forth, and a descision has been reached ... then that is that as far as I am concerned. Maybe I do not like the answer I have been given - but I have been given one. Full stop, end of story ... Master has made a descision and that is that! I have given my submission to Him and I will abide by any descisions He has made. If I don't like them - tough. I will live. I feel that by abiding by His word I am giving Him a clear signal that He is in control, I am submitting to Him just as I had promised to do.
(Example ... we had been planning to visit an online friend in Australia this July. She is terminally ill, and this might be the only time I will get to meet her. Because I have been out of work for so long, money is very tight. We had the flight money saved, but needed spending money. Master said that we could not go. I was devestated. I knew, logically, He was right. But, I wanted to go, I really needed to go. We discussed it ... He made the same decision - we would not be going because we really couldn't justify spending that much. We didn't go. I submitted, even though I have control over a sum of money we could have legally borrowed from. His decision was final. Sunject closed.)

what IS a submissive to do/ Just submit? right? if submission means to 'suffer in silence " then I say ..hell no!! Subs have the right to be heard also ..to be rspected since without their "FREE gift of submission"the Dom holds NO power over them..We need that power over us,that control ,however we also Need their patience ,understanding,and for them to really SEE the "GOOD things in us instead of seemingly 'searching for "the bad"' waiting for us to try to "seizethe Control" back lol ..who needs it?? Control=trouble for me ..plain,pure& simple ..however I Do control MY feelings..always have ..lalways will..that part of me stays intact ..no matter what..

everyone has a right to question..I know that Dom's think it is disrespectful ,etc and takes away the 'control" but how else are subs to get their questions answered if the CANNOT ask? hmmm? I can see if the Dom has given them an order to 'do something" but then it becomes a matter of " trust"' which has to be "earned" by the way,it is NOT a free gift like the submission.. JMHO

Yes, in my opinion, a submissive has a right to be heard.
A submissive has a right to question in a polite and respectful way.
Yes, trust has to be earned. It has to be earned on and from both sides of the coin/whip/flogger.

However ... if a submissive continues to question the same thing, over and over and over again ... then, IMO, that could be considered topping. If the questioning becomes nagging, then the Dom/me may start to question in their own minds whether the submissive is trully wishing to fully submit or if s/he just wants to submit when s/he feels like it.

Yes - Dom/me only hold control over the submissive when they have given the gift of their submission.
If the submissive begins to question the majority of what their Dom/me says, asks of them, then maybe - just maybe, the whole lifestyle decision needs re-examining. Maybe the submissive is just not ready to fully submit, and maybe a release is called for so that both parties have a chance to re-think their relative positions.

 

[~Dream~]

my dear Willow....

I cannot really address most of this topic as it seems to be speakinh of a LDR - and I have no experience of those at all. I can only really speak from a skin-to-skin perspective, living with my Master.

That said, I will try and answer some of the points raised by Dream. (If I take these out of the context they were meant, please forgive me - it is just how I read them. I may also have to answer in chunks as I gather my thoughts and try to put into words what is running through my brain.)




I think that if I were in this situation, I would be looking closely within myself trying to understand why I was feeling so disappointed. Why was it that I wasn't trusting my Master. Had He ever said or done anything that would make me doubt His honesty ... if the answer came back, no ... then I really had no reason to worry and if I kept questioning this aspect then I could expect Him to become angry/upset with me.
As for not being there to take care of Him ... I would just have to ride that one out and stamp on such feelings until I was able to be there to care for Him. No use worrying over something that is totally out of my control.




OK ... the first part - I would try and see why it was that my Master was disappointed in me? How would I do this? I would ask, very politely, if He was disappointed with something I had done, or maybe not done; if He was disappointed in something I said/typed, or not said/typed ... and then I would listen. I would bite my tongue and listen without any questions or interruptions until He had finished. I would then ask for time (and set a limit on the time) to think about all he had said.
If, after really thinking about things, and trying to see it from His point of view, I still had questions, I would politely tell Him that I was unsure of a couple of things and might we please speak about them.

Dream - you say "just asking questions is now considered "topping" for instance..".
I will not even presume to try and imagine what goes on between you and Artful. I will answer this as if it were me and Robuck.
If we have been discussing something, questioning something back and forth, and a descision has been reached ... then that is that as far as I am concerned. Maybe I do not like the answer I have been given - but I have been given one. Full stop, end of story ... Master has made a descision and that is that! I have given my submission to Him and I will abide by any descisions He has made. If I don't like them - tough. I will live. I feel that by abiding by His word I am giving Him a clear signal that He is in control, I am submitting to Him just as I had promised to do.
(Example ... we had been planning to visit an online friend in Australia this July. She is terminally ill, and this might be the only time I will get to meet her. Because I have been out of work for so long, money is very tight. We had the flight money saved, but needed spending money. Master said that we could not go. I was devestated. I knew, logically, He was right. But, I wanted to go, I really needed to go. We discussed it ... He made the same decision - we would not be going because we really couldn't justify spending that much. We didn't go. I submitted, even though I have control over a sum of money we could have legally borrowed from. His decision was final. Sunject closed.)





Yes, in my opinion, a submissive has a right to be heard.
A submissive has a right to question in a polite and respectful way.
Yes, trust has to be earned. It has to be earned on and from both sides of the coin/whip/flogger.

However ... if a submissive continues to question the same thing, over and over and over again ... then, IMO, that could be considered topping. If the questioning becomes nagging, then the Dom/me may start to question in their own minds whether the submissive is trully wishing to fully submit or if s/he just wants to submit when s/he feels like it.

Yes - Dom/me only hold control over the submissive when they have given the gift of their submission.
If the submissive begins to question the majority of what their Dom/me says, asks of them, then maybe - just maybe, the whole lifestyle decision needs re-examining. Maybe the submissive is just not ready to fully submit, and maybe a release is called for so that both parties have a chance to re-think their relative positions.

I respect and do appreciate your heartfelt comments to my post,however as you yourself said,You DO NOT know the situation between Artful and I ,that much is true..Do I consider myself to be every bit as submissive as you are? very much so..Am I indeed "New ' to this lifestyle and therefore liable to say things or do things wrong,making " mistakes'; therfore also 'learning in the process'_yes!!

*do I trust My Master? Yes ,I do,with my very life and I have proven that ,I sometimes Doubt Him simply because truly I am "doubting myself",I wish to trust Him implicitly in ALL things but Not even a fool does that..For instance would I trust Him with my children? yes and they are my prized possession ,however Do I always trust Him to KNOW what is "Best" for "us?' No,sadly I do not because He Himself is still Learning also and I need,I deserve to be able to get questions answered that I may have WITHOUT it always being "assumed" that I am wishing to 'sway Him' Or try to take the Control away"
If I have a very REAL "concern" I feel it needs to be addressed and I never 'run things into the ground" ..If I am NOT worth My Master's Time..why Did He choose Me then?is there something or someone perhaps MORE worthy of it?'
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*I have never doubted my Master's honesty ,however when He assumes He knows me better than I know myself I feel that is wrong..My feelings ARE my own..at times I need them validated(need to have Him "mirror back' that He heard what I said ) not something totally off the wall and way different than what i meant..He can assume things that could possibly be false..if the active listening part of conversation is lacking then only 1 person is REALLY getting heard and thats usually the Dom/me..that creates hurt within me ..I have a very REAL need to be heard Not just understood..
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*not being able to be there to take care of His needs is very much "out of my control' for now..of that You are correct however I will NEVER just "stamp on my feelings" and I do resent such a comment ..my feelings are every bit as precious as my submission(in my eyes)..hey have been stamped out and stomped on way too many times already..
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**you said:"If we have been discussing something, questioning something back and forth, and a descision has been reached ... then that is that as far as I am concerned."...my point here is: Master does NOT like me to question Him at all,period....even asking a simple where were you for 2 hours tonite as I know you were not posting(I was worried about Him and yes also had fears & doubts)..He only saw this as disappointing Him by my questioning Him!!
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Master made up His mind why I REALLY wanted to know where He was BEFORE I got to say My feelings why.. period..I feel that was wrong..JMHO..
yes I AM truly wishing to fully submit and because I am soo HONEST about it and ALL my feelings with Artful it has been a long,arduous journey for us lately and I think alot of it is attributed to us being physically apart now..Master KNOWS my love AND my submission Is Real,I will again take His hand as TOGETHER we walk our walk and hopefully NOONE will "doubt MY word as I know how hurt my Master must feel when I do his,,I have just been hurt way too many times to count and He KNOWS this also(waiting for the proverbial "bomb' to drop)He loves me sincerely as I Do Him..I do have faith,confidence and Hope in Our love... ty for the comments Willow..

 

[spankableBelle]

i handle disappointment in different ways with different situations. i don't have an example right now as life the last two days has been emotionally draining and trying and i'm not sure where my head is exactly.

But, the ways i handle disappointment is to either draw back inside myself and wait it out. It is not to manipulate, it is simply because the disappointment is so sharp and so impacting that i can't bring myself to voice it rationally and with respect. So, i hold it in until i have calmed my emotions.

Another way i handle disappointment is with short answers to everything. (boy, i bet ya'll wish i'd try that short answer thing around here instead of these books that i write...) i think Soron is starting to pick up on that...when i say 'yes, Sir' a million times in a row, then something is definitely eating away at me, but i don't always know how to express that something has disappointed me, has hurt me...

i will sometimes cry and rage when i have been disappointed...cry like a heartbroken school girl and rage like an angry monster...it is or turns into frustration and i just want to scream...and it will take me a while to calm down enough to think in a rational frame of mind...to calm down enough that i can say 'With respect, i am terribly disappointed...'

Okay, well, i thought of an example of being disappointed (see, if talk long enough...) We have very little online time together. Part of it is real life in the evenings with kids and such. When He is getting home, i am going offline to attend to dinner and my kids. We have a few minutes then to talk about the day. Our other time is first thing in the morning, around 7:30am...we have about 30 minutes then, but it's still interspersed with Him getting ready for work and me getting my daughter off to school. He has given me a curfew of 12:30am Sunday thru Thursday and on Friday's and Saturday's it is extended until 1am. i have no problem with this. However, the majority of His online time is between say 11:30pm and 4am...well, i've been sent to bed while He is posting and chatting and in general online...i find it disappointing that i am sent to bed when He is awake and online. i find it disappointing that we have very little time together. i find it disappointing that He can't get up earlier to spend time with me because He's been up all night...i have brought this to His attention, He is well aware of my feelings...has anything changed? No...but perhaps as time goes on, it will...and it is easier to deal with when i wake up and find my email box with 5 or 6 emails from Him...but, to handle this situation and my disappointment, i had pulled inside, become distant until i could speak with respect and not accusation, though i will admit that there've been times i have things come out in this regard, on this subject before i had calmed my emotions...and it was seen as a lack of trust in Him, which i could understand...my needs are met and i am not neglected...even when He is not around, He ensures that my focus remain on Him, so in this way, i am blessed...i do though wish for more time to actually spend with Him here...and it disappoints me that we don't have that, that i don't have that...

If i jump the gun, i usually find that i'm dead wrong...i ask questions constantly about things that i fear could be a potential problem for me... that could interrupt my service to Him...that could hinder my trust and ability to submit fully...He encourages my questions, my concerns, no matter the subject...and because of that, when i ask and am given the rare response of 'Because it pleases Me girl' i accept it and take it inside and repeat as many times as necessary 'Because it pleases Me, girl' (luckily He has not said this about the above example of time together and is trying to work towards a solution)

belle

 

[~Dream~]

that was a very good example Belle..

and one in which I could relate to..
I find it so hard sometimes to just let Master's word be the Final answer and especially if I feel my voice has gone unheard..It just really angers me ,gets under my skin when I feel that He has "heard me say" something which I did not even speak..I worry that I have lost the power to effectively communicate and it is 1 of the major foundations of our relationship..I dont like to be second-guessed when it comes to "my feelings" ..
I feel I should be able to express myself freely and with confidence,yet for some reason lately,I cannot .why.is still a mystery to me.Master has said that I have NOT angered Him ,yet I "feel"anger coming from the words He types..It feels like He seems afraid to agree with me on anything anymore for fear of relinquishing the "damn Control"..sometimes I just wanna say "You can take the control and that kicking stone He says I always revert back to kicking and shove them (into outer space?)well you get the idea..
I do NOT talk to Master like this but it has gotten very very close esp when I feel angry and frustrated as I have lately..
I am very disappointed I feel this way and the only way I have to handle it is to "submit?" ..that's just not cuttin it for me..