Did Jesus come from a dysfunctional family? If so, what were the effects?

[riff]

Joe and Mary engaged.
One night Joe get's drunk, falls into a blackout and rapes his fiancee. He can't remember what he did.
Mary got knocked up.
Joe and Mary get married, but the damage has been done. They have major relationship issues: Mary's respose to rape, Joseph's problem with drinking and failure to take responsibility for his behaviour.
Mary has a baby and they name him Jesus.
Domestic life is strange. Mary caries with her a great greif that only a rape victim could imagine. Joe is in such a state of denial about himself, he is incapable of real intimacy. Poor little Jesus, innocent in all of this, grows up in this family.

And becomes a preacher and in the eyes of the state, a criminal.

Do you ever wonder about stuff like this?

 

[freescorfr]

No real evidence, Riff. Alcohol dependency would have been seen as a form of possession by an evil spirit - and it was just poor quality wine at the time - pre-Cana, of course, no spirits.
Joseph was a carpenter and could knock up a good table.

 

[riff]

I know that there is no real evidence. But we are talking about a person who changed the course of history.

I can't imagine them being like the Cleavers. I am just asking questions.

 

[freescorfr]

Of course, I did wonder about the Incarnation, and like, many Catholics, don't accept it literally.

As for the preacher bit, it makes sense to me. Israel was occupied territiry, the religious leaders collaborators with the Romans - a religious young man fired up with zeal. Not a lot's changed.

Jesus sexuality appears to have been quite normal, but what really appeals to me was his inclusive attitude to people on the margins of society - and the poor.

Just out of interest have you read John Allegro's "the sacred mushroom" - I think that's what it's called. Probably a bit fantastic but posing a few questions about the drug culture in 30AD Palestine.

 

[riff]

Jesus sexuality appears to have been quite normal, but what really appeals to me was his inclusive attitude to people on the margins of society - and the poor.

It would seem that pain cultivates empathy, yes?

 

[freescorfr]

It would seem that pain cultivates empathy, yes?

It depends very much what you do with your pain. It seems to me that for many people pain cultivates misery.

Much of my empathy is for people who have suffered in a myriad of ways, most of which would not be available to me.

 

[riff]

Well, that being the case- and you are correct about pain cultivating misery- what did Jesus do with his misery? I am saying that it motivated him.

 

[freescorfr]

You've done that Keirsey Test Dillinger posted and turned out ideological. There's your answer.

Some idealists turn out to be healers.

 

[Cherry]

The Cherry Tree Carol

When Joseph was an old man, And old man was he
He married Virgin Mary, The Queen of Galilee
He married Virgin Mary, The Queen of Galilee

Joseph and Mary walked through an orchard green
There were berries and cherries as thick as might be seen
There were berries and cherries as thick as might be seen

And Mary spoke to Joseph, so meek and so mild
"Joseph gather me some cherries, for I am with child."
"Joseph gather me some cherries, for I am with child."

And Joseph flew in anger, in anger flew he
"Let the father of the baby gather cherries for thee."
"Let the father of the baby gather cherries for thee."

Then up spoke baby Jesus from in Mary's womb,
"Bend down the tallest tree that my mother might have some."
"Bend down the tallest tree that my mother might have some."

And bent down the tallest branch 'til it touched Mary's hand,
Cried she, "Oh look thou Joseph, I have cherries by command"
Cried she, "Oh look thou Joseph, I have cherries by command"

 

[riff]

You've done that Keirsey Test Dillinger posted and turned out ideological. There's your answer.

Some idealists turn out to be healers.

Some of them love to post pics of pornstars too.

 

[freescorfr]

Some of them love to post pics of pornstars too.

That's what I said, "They turn out to be healers"


Jesus might well have been Palestine's principal porn star poster of his day.

-Watch your back!

 

[riff]

That's what I said, "They turn out to be healers"


Jesus might well have been Palestine's principal porn star poster of his day.

I would like to see some porn from those days. Did they even have a word for it? A word than means, "pornography" in the same sense that we use it?

 

[freescorfr]

I'm out of my depth there riff. Hindu, chinese erotica yes. Poems of Ovid, Book of Kings.

I don't reckon any of them were civilised enough for hard core. That takes a lot of evolution to get where we are today.

 

[riff]

That reminds me of Jesus Christ Superstar:

"Every time I look at you I don't understand
Why you let the things you did get so out of hand
You'd have managed better if you had it planned
Why'd you choose such a backward time in such a strange land?
If you'd come today you would have reached a whole nation
Israel in 4BC had no mass communication
Don't you get me wrong- I only want to know

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?

Tell me what you think about your friends at the top
Who'd you think besides yourself was the pick of the crop?
Buddah was he where it's at? Is he where you are?
Could Mahomet move a mountain or was that just PR?
Did you mean to die like that? Was that a mistake or
Did you know your messy death would be a record breaker?
Don't you get me wrong- I only want to know.....

 

[freescorfr]

JC Superstar and the Life of Brian sum up a lot of today's theological wisdom.

I really liked the
"Always thought that I'd be an Apostle,
Knew that I could make it if I tried..."" bit.


Good American philosophy that.

 

[riff]

Do you think so? Being an American, I never looked at it that way.

One of my Russian friends asked me what it meant to be an American. Among several of my ideas were the attitude of "can-do-it-iveness."

Eurocomment?

 

[freescorfr]

I've never been to the States, but I'd heard of the "Just do it" philosophy long before Nike.

Your Russian friends will tell you that their philosophy, in the enforced silence of totalitarianism was, "I'm fucked if I'll be seen not doing it".

 

[riff]

They already have. It's still pretty bad over there. I was in Moscow a couple of years ago. And yes. It is still there.

God, but they are an inventive and wonderful people. I want to go back, I want to go back.

 

[freescorfr]

I genuinely like Ladas. Ya ne poyemayo nemnogo poryski. but I like Ladas and Dostoyevsy and think Lenin tried his best. I love chiken Kiev and St. Andrew is the patron saint of both countries. Vodka nearly killed me and how many porn sites are ".ru"?

 

[riff]

They are hungry, man. Just hungry. Right now the ruble is sucking worse than when I was there. Last I checked it was like 30 rubles to the dollar.

I could go to Moscow and live like a fucking king.

I am a King.

 

[freescorfr]

You've only a few posts to go riff to the 2k.
Jesus Christ!

I've lost the tread of the thread

 

[riff]

Yeah.... I'm fingering myself with astroglide now.... heh

 

[freescorfr]

To get back on topic,I'm a bit surprised that all the single mum's out there aren't showing a bit of solidarity with Mary - single mum and all that.

 

[riff]

It takes all types.

 

[freescorfr]

And fonts too.


JC was baptised in the Jordan. That's pretty classy - and dangerous these days too.

My baptismal font was in a pokey church in Glasgow. St Ninian's Knightswood.