Depressing

Colleen Thomas

Ultrafemme
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Feb 11, 2002
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ALEXANDRIA, United States (AFP) - Zacarias Moussaoui shouted a final defiant "God curse America" before he was formally sentenced to life imprisonment and taken away to America's toughest prison.


The 37-year-old Frenchman was unapologetic to the end over the September 11, 2001 attacks which brought him before the US court.

"God curse America, God save Osama bin Laden. You'll never get him," said Moussaoui, delighting in his final encounter with Judge Leonie Brinkema, who officially delivered the jury's verdict of six life terms without a chance of parole.

"You came here to be a martyr and die in a big bang of glory. But to quote the poet T.S. Eliot, you will die with a whimper," Brinkema said.

The judge gave the formal sentence one day after a jury rejected a death sentence for Moussaoui, who had admitted to conspiracy in the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

Brinkema rebuked Moussaoui, who on Wednesday had declared "I won" after he was spared the death penalty.

She told him that everyone except him would leave the court free to go where they want.

"They can go outside, see the sun, smell fresh air, hear the birds. You go back into custody and will stay the rest of your life in a supermax" (super-maximum-security) prison.

Moussaoui is to go to the top-security prison in Florence, Colorado, where a number of other Al-Qaeda followers are serving life terms.

"In terms of winners and losers, it is pretty clear who won yesterday and who lost yesterday," the judge said.

When Moussaoui arrived for the 20-minute hearing, he was smiling broadly and flashing "V" for "victory" signs to the public benches.

Brinkema described him as "an impossible defendant" and Moussaoui happily responded with a thumbs-up sign.

"I am a mujahid'. You think that you own the world, and you must admit you are wrong. People like Mohammed Atta and the rest have so much hatred for you," Moussaoui said, referring to the lead September 11 hijacker.

"You don't want to hear, America. You will feel. We will come back another day," he declared angrily.

Before he was sentenced and spoke, three relatives of September 11 victims stood at the lectern used by the lawyers and denounced Moussaoui.

"You took the most important person in my life from me," said Lisa Dolan, who lost her navy captain husband in the September 11, 2001 attack on the Pentagon.

When he got the chance to speak, Moussaoui mocked their testimony.

Referring to Dolan's husband, he said: "Of course he was developing peace and love in the world in his warship."

"You say that we (Al-Qaeda) are a hate organisation, I say the CIA is a peace and love organisation," Moussaoui said.

Prosecutor Rob Spencer rose to object to what he called Moussaoui's "political statement". Brinkema agreed, telling Moussaoui he could only talk about factors influencing the sentence he should receive.

Moussaoui had pleaded guilty to conspiring to hijack planes for Al-Qaeda and fly them into prominent US buildings.

He was detained in August 2001, but prosecutors had argued that his "lethal lies" while in detention had helped Al-Qaeda hijackers go ahead with the September 11 attacks unhindered.

The jury agreed in the first phase of the trial that Moussaoui had contributed toward the deaths and so was eligible for the death penalty.

But it did not come up with the unanimous verdict needed to recommend execution. Court documents did not indicate how many jurors favoured death, if any. But three jurors inserted a paragraph in the verdict form stating that they believed Moussaoui had "limited" knowledge of the September 11 plans.

In Paris, Moussaoui's mother asked French authorities Thursday to request that her son serve his prison time in France.

US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales promised that the United States would examine any French request over Moussaoui.

"No formal request has been made," Gonzales said in Vienna, on the sidelines of a conference of European justice and interior ministers.

"We expect a request by the French government. We will examine it," he said.


If this piece of shit didn't get the death penalty, what do we even have it for?
 
Colleen Thomas said:
ALEXANDRIA, United States (AFP) - Zacarias Moussaoui shouted a final defiant "God curse America" before he was formally sentenced to life imprisonment and taken away to America's toughest prison.


The 37-year-old Frenchman was unapologetic to the end over the September 11, 2001 attacks which brought him before the US court.

"God curse America, God save Osama bin Laden. You'll never get him," said Moussaoui, delighting in his final encounter with Judge Leonie Brinkema, who officially delivered the jury's verdict of six life terms without a chance of parole.

"You came here to be a martyr and die in a big bang of glory. But to quote the poet T.S. Eliot, you will die with a whimper," Brinkema said.

The judge gave the formal sentence one day after a jury rejected a death sentence for Moussaoui, who had admitted to conspiracy in the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

Brinkema rebuked Moussaoui, who on Wednesday had declared "I won" after he was spared the death penalty.

She told him that everyone except him would leave the court free to go where they want.

"They can go outside, see the sun, smell fresh air, hear the birds. You go back into custody and will stay the rest of your life in a supermax" (super-maximum-security) prison.

Moussaoui is to go to the top-security prison in Florence, Colorado, where a number of other Al-Qaeda followers are serving life terms.

"In terms of winners and losers, it is pretty clear who won yesterday and who lost yesterday," the judge said.

When Moussaoui arrived for the 20-minute hearing, he was smiling broadly and flashing "V" for "victory" signs to the public benches.

Brinkema described him as "an impossible defendant" and Moussaoui happily responded with a thumbs-up sign.

"I am a mujahid'. You think that you own the world, and you must admit you are wrong. People like Mohammed Atta and the rest have so much hatred for you," Moussaoui said, referring to the lead September 11 hijacker.

"You don't want to hear, America. You will feel. We will come back another day," he declared angrily.

Before he was sentenced and spoke, three relatives of September 11 victims stood at the lectern used by the lawyers and denounced Moussaoui.

"You took the most important person in my life from me," said Lisa Dolan, who lost her navy captain husband in the September 11, 2001 attack on the Pentagon.

When he got the chance to speak, Moussaoui mocked their testimony.

Referring to Dolan's husband, he said: "Of course he was developing peace and love in the world in his warship."

"You say that we (Al-Qaeda) are a hate organisation, I say the CIA is a peace and love organisation," Moussaoui said.

Prosecutor Rob Spencer rose to object to what he called Moussaoui's "political statement". Brinkema agreed, telling Moussaoui he could only talk about factors influencing the sentence he should receive.

Moussaoui had pleaded guilty to conspiring to hijack planes for Al-Qaeda and fly them into prominent US buildings.

He was detained in August 2001, but prosecutors had argued that his "lethal lies" while in detention had helped Al-Qaeda hijackers go ahead with the September 11 attacks unhindered.

The jury agreed in the first phase of the trial that Moussaoui had contributed toward the deaths and so was eligible for the death penalty.

But it did not come up with the unanimous verdict needed to recommend execution. Court documents did not indicate how many jurors favoured death, if any. But three jurors inserted a paragraph in the verdict form stating that they believed Moussaoui had "limited" knowledge of the September 11 plans.

In Paris, Moussaoui's mother asked French authorities Thursday to request that her son serve his prison time in France.

US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales promised that the United States would examine any French request over Moussaoui.

"No formal request has been made," Gonzales said in Vienna, on the sidelines of a conference of European justice and interior ministers.

"We expect a request by the French government. We will examine it," he said.


If this piece of shit didn't get the death penalty, what do we even have it for?

I don't know, Colly. I can't think of a more deserving person, either, aside from Hitler or bin Laden himself.
 
I liked the judge's point, though. Go sit in your cell for the next fifty years and try to keep pretending that you "won" something. I doubt the man will ever really get to grips with the terrible thing that he has done, but there's some hope. If nothing else, it's worth imagining the drab, gray little death that awaits him. In some ways I think it perfectly suiting.
 
Speculation on a couple radio stations this morning are that he will be killed by a another prisoner while incarcerated. He of course will most likely be in solitary confinment.

Do you think they will tell him which way Mecca is?

:rolleyes:
 
zeb1094 said:
Speculation on a couple radio stations this morning are that he will be killed by a another prisoner while incarcerated. He of course will most likely be in solitary confinment.

Do you think they will tell him which way Mecca is?

:rolleyes:

They probably will, or the ACLU will sue. "Worship a pedophile, get a free pass" is pretty much the ACLU's motto when it comes to Muslims and Islam.
 
That reminds me of a husband-wife pair who kidnapped his boss, I think buried him alive - can't remember for sure, but he died from their treatment - and then complained that the prison was not adequately addressing the wife's need for kosher meals. I'm not saying that those shouldn't be provided, but I was curious what they felt God might think about the minor issue of kidnapping a man and letting him die of exposure and untreated medical problems.

Shanglan
 
I think the long jail sentence is much better than the death penalty for this guy. If I was his warden I'd make sure to slip some pork into his meals everyday. And keep him in a round, windowless cell so he can't find Mecca.

And allow the other prisoners free reign on raping him. Especially if there are any big, mean, incarcerated Jews with an eye for a martyr.

But that's just me.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
...
If this piece of shit didn't get the death penalty, what do we even have it for?

Ah, that's an easy one, political issues. "I'm tough on crime." I say, take his ass out back, pop a round in his head, stuff him in a dumpster, and call it a day.
 
I wouldn't mind the life sentence thing, but I wish it could be "hard labor."

"Makin' little one's outta big ones."

"What's yo' dirt doin' in boss Leroy's hole, boy? Get it outta the-ah."

"Bend over, Zach baby - Mongo's got a big present for you! Mongo loves handsome Islamic frenchies! :kiss: "
 
I have the same question Colly posed.

I also have another question. Why do I, R. Richard, taxpayer, have to pay for the POS's room and board?
 
R. Richard said:
I have the same question Colly posed.

I also have another question. Why do I, R. Richard, taxpayer, have to pay for the POS's room and board?
So not going there!
 
Shrug. Kill him, grant him the martyrdom he seeks and set him up as an icon for other severely disturbed individuals.

Or leave him to rot in a cell forever and let him fade into obscurity like the useless slime he is.

Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.
 
rgraham666 said:
What I thought too. I was under the impression that being killed by Americans and becoming a martyr was what he wanted. What kind of a punishment would it be to grant him that and give him the political victory of that too?

I think it's the right desicion. And this time, it has very little to do with my general stance on capital punishment.
 
He wanted the death penalty. He wanted to be a martyr in his time, go out with a bang.

Instead he was denied that. I think that's justice in gilt.
 
Just to be a Devil's Advocate:

Does this reaction seem to be revenge?


More to the point, how is terrorism going to be stopped?
Making war does not solve the problem of terrorist attacks.
Diplomacy is far cheaper than war and generally works better too.

So, from the terrorists point of view, how will they be happy/ safe? What is it that they require that will stop the attrocities, from a diplomatic viewpoint?

In fifty years time will we look back at these times and wonder why we didn't do 'some such thing' before?

The Irish situation existed for roughly a century, but now things are looking up. Not through war/terrorism/ antiterrorism, but through diplomacy.

Surely this will happen in the Middle East too, eventually, if we can only find the way.

Ken
 
rgraham666 said:
Shrug. Kill him, grant him the martyrdom he seeks and set him up as an icon for other severely disturbed individuals.

Or leave him to rot in a cell forever and let him fade into obscurity like the useless slime he is.

Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.

Exactly.
 
Recidiva said:
He wanted the death penalty. He wanted to be a martyr in his time, go out with a bang.

Instead he was denied that. I think that's justice in gilt.

I agree.
 
kendo1 said:
Just to be a Devil's Advocate:

Does this reaction seem to be revenge?


More to the point, how is terrorism going to be stopped?
Making war does not solve the problem of terrorist attacks.
Diplomacy is far cheaper than war and generally works better too.

So, from the terrorists point of view, how will they be happy/ safe? What is it that they require that will stop the attrocities, from a diplomatic viewpoint?

In fifty years time will we look back at these times and wonder why we didn't do 'some such thing' before?

The Irish situation existed for roughly a century, but now things are looking up. Not through war/terrorism/ antiterrorism, but through diplomacy.

Surely this will happen in the Middle East too, eventually, if we can only find the way.

Ken

Terrorism will never stop. It's the tactic taken by the weak and desperate, and there will always be those that are weak and desperate.

However, knowing that it's done by the weak and desperate does inspire an underdog passion that will also always be around.

There is no "war against terrorism" there's only a war against individual terrorists.
 
Recidiva said:
Terrorism will never stop. It's the tactic taken by the weak and desperate, and there will always be those that are weak and desperate.

However, knowing that it's done by the weak and desperate does inspire an underdog passion that will also always be around.

There is no "war against terrorism" there's only a war against individual terrorists.

If they are weak and desperate- what is it that they need?

Is it cheaper to fund education/health than to wage war? Is it possible to do so?
Many Middle Eastern/Asian countries would shun such help from Western countries, as you well know.
Look back to July last year and the bombings in London- homegrown terrorists, not from deprived third world countries.

Ken
 
kendo1 said:
If they are weak and desperate- what is it that they need?

Is it cheaper to fund education/health than to wage war? Is it possible to do so?
Many Middle Eastern/Asian countries would shun such help from Western countries, as you well know.
Look back to July last year and the bombings in London- homegrown terrorists, not from deprived third world countries.

Ken

What they need is the obliteration of what they hate.

I'm afraid I can't help with that.
 
Recidiva said:
What they need is the obliteration of what they hate.

I'm afraid I can't help with that.

Maybe we should try to love them.
 
kendo1 said:
Maybe we should try to love them.

Right. I do love people. I can understand their social influences and why they're doing what they're doing.

However, when my entire being is anathema to them, when I couldn't even come into their presence without being unclean and banished (a female, without a male escort, hair uncovered) I'm afraid the bargaining table is not a destination I'm making it to.
 
Liar said:
What I thought too. I was under the impression that being killed by Americans and becoming a martyr was what he wanted. What kind of a punishment would it be to grant him that and give him the political victory of that too?

Yes, I did think his "I won" rather seemed like a desperate attempt to claim victory when he didn't actually get what he wanted.
 
Recidiva said:
Right. I do love people. I can understand their social influences and why they're doing what they're doing.

However, when my entire being is anathema to them, when I couldn't even come into their presence without being unclean and banished (a female, without a male escort, hair uncovered) I'm afraid the bargaining table is not a destination I'm making it to.

I understand. When in Rome...
But when it comes to our countries, we still have to conform to their standards.
Here I go, them and us!
But, this is not the view of the majority of Muslims. Merely the extremists and those in power!
However, there are moderate Muslim countries and liberal minded Muslims in Western countries. All is not lost.

Ken
 
kendo1 said:
I understand. When in Rome...
But when it comes to our countries, we still have to conform to their standards.
Here I go, them and us!
But, this is not the view of the majority of Muslims. Merely the extremists and those in power!
However, there are moderate Muslim countries and liberal minded Muslims in Western countries. All is not lost.

Ken

No, all is not lost, but me loving them is immaterial when it won't be accepted and is, in fact, an insult and a sting to their pride.

By whatever road, I would enjoy peace. However, we are not at a bargaining table right now, and me sending energy their way will only have it be twisted against me. When both sides cooperate, then we'll have cooperation. I'm willing to talk and understand, they are not.
 
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