Democrat House Members are lying to the people about Crimea

[EternalFantasies]

Firstly i'd like to point out that it was quite funny how suddenly it is the Dems that are so concerned with Russian bad enemy business...

This thread is strictly about Russia & Crimea - not Russia and US elections.

The Dem HR who made a narrative to plug in a piece about how Russia invaded Crimea is lying. If the US did not recognize an internal referendum of another nation, the US doesn't get to label as it pleases...

Crimea had a referendum. Crimea is two thirds Russian as is it ethnically, and the majority of what's left are Tatars. The Tatars could use being part of Russia and get badly needed community funding, so they added to the majority vote of the Russian Crimeans, not to mention the Ukrainians themselves living in Crimea who voted to join Russia. So the province of Crimea passed a referendum at 97% of people choosing to secede and joining Russia.

Kiev not wanting to recognize the referendum, Russians simply forced its implementation.

There are no oppression going on, there is no protests, everyone's happy.

 

[EternalFantasies]

The plug-in being the one he did while questioning Comey today.

It seemed he was taking one for the team.

 

[KingOrfeo]

But before the referendum, there was an invasion.

 

[angelo22]

Rebuttal

If you think that, you are a stooge for the GOP and Russia. Russia did invade Crimea and they did it with force of arms against a much weaker nation. When the USSR was broken up, the different countries became independent of each other. Russia was the biggest of all the countries and seemed to think it could continue to dictate to all the other. Not so. Think of it as if Texas said that it was invading Oklahoma because it used to be part of Texas and they wanted it back. It does not work that way. The Crimea needs to be independent again, not part of Russia. Hitler used that same excuse to invade Austria and Hungary. It is bull and any thinking person will see that.

 

[EternalFantasies]

But before the referendum, there was an invasion.

Nope. Referendum was before.

 

[Miles]

Nope. Referendum was before.

In March 2014, following the ousting of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych in the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, armed Russian special forces backed by pro-Russian separatists invaded major Ukrainian government buildings, military bases and telecommunication facilities of the peninsula and forced local authorities to hold an illegal referendum[4] on "reunification with Russia". Most of the international community (except Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Syria, Nicaragua, Sudan, Armenia, North Korea and Bolivia) do not recognize the annexation and consider Crimea to be Ukrainian territory. Russia currently administers the peninsula as two federal subjects: the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol. Ukraine continues to assert its right over the peninsula.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

 

[EternalFantasies]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

I'll suggest to you this, since i know you people hold onto articles and wiki like mantra.

Grab someone from Crimea and asked them what happened. You'll have a different story.

Crimea is majority Russian. they have wanted to join Russia for ever. The Tatars too, but those for economical reasons. The "Ukrainaians" living in Crimea speak Russian like everyone else and not Ukrainian.

The only ones pissed with this arrangement were the pro west people who are mainly business people who want oil pipeline revenue, which their Prez was betraying Russia and attempting to sign-off on a pipeline deal so as the GCC states especially Qatar could sell gas to Europe. Today, Russia is the main supplier.

Crimeans knew its in their best long term interest to deal with Russia and not Arab states. So they orchestrated it. If Russia helped them do it, and its in their interest too, it is not an invasion. These are the same people.

That Dem HR knows it too. Hence "he's lying".

 

[KingOrfeo]

Crimea is majority Russian. they have wanted to join Russia for ever.

I can easily believe that, since Crimea was always part of Russia until Khruschev (a Ukrainian) reassigned it to the Ukraine, and I have no objection to it remaining part of Russia forever. But it remains a fact that the means the Russians used to bring it about included armed invasion. And tolerating Russian irredentism is going to cause a lot of trouble down the road; they might demand the Russian-majority border region of Moldova next.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I'll suggest to you this, since i know you people hold onto articles and wiki like mantra.

Grab someone from Crimea and asked them what happened. You'll have a different story.

Well of course. When you have a gun in your back you'll say whatever you're told to say.

Crimea is majority Russian. they have wanted to join Russia for ever. The Tatars too, but those for economical reasons. The "Ukrainaians" living in Crimea speak Russian like everyone else and not Ukrainians.

Yes, the Tartars have wanted to join Russia which is why they've been persecuted since day one. And I don't mean just the current invasion. Stalin had his pogrome of Tartars just as Putin is having his.

It's why the first thing Putin did was outlaw Tartar radio and tv stations, forbid Tartars from having their own schools and prevents them from speaking their own language. This doesn't even take into consideration all the Tartars who have been rounded up and thrown in jail for no reason other than being a Tartar.

I can how the Tartars would want to be part of Russia under those circumstances.

The only ones pissed with this arrangement were the pro west people who are mainly business people who want oil pipeline revenue, which their Prez was betraying Russia and attempting to sign-off on a pipeline deal so as the GCC states especially Qatar could sell gas to Europe. Today, Russia is the main supplier.

The ones who were pissed were the Ukrainian people when Yanukovych defied their wishes and took his bribe from Putin. They saw the prosperity of the West and wanted to rid themselves of the oppression of Russia.

They became even more pissed when Yanukovych ordered his Berkut security forces to murder protestors, right around the time he begged Putin to send in Russian troops to a foreign country.

Crimeans knew its in their best long term interest to deal with Russia and not Arab states. So they orchestrated it. If Russia helped them do it, and its in their interest too, it is not an invasion. These are the same people.

That Dem HR knows it too. Hence "he's lying".

The only one who is lying is you, but that's nothing new. There was nothing to deal with. The Crimea is part of Ukraine and had nothing to do with Arab states. Putin needs the Crimea because it's his only warm water port.

Unfortunately, now that he has it, he realizes how badly he screwed up. There is no direct connection to the peninsula which means exorbitant costs in transporting goods. It has no electricity except through generators which are burning through fuel every hour and the relevant money to keep the fuel supply going. Did I mention the power shortages they're having?

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/crimean-authorities-urge-residents-to-save-energy-56567

Businesses are floundering since Putin took them from their rightful owners:

http://www.businessinsider.com/crimeas-new-russian-overlords-are-seizing-thousands-of-businesses-2014-12

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-crimea-yalta-2017-story.html

Even TASS admitted businesses are suffering because of power shortages:

http://tass.com/economy/851001

The Crimea is a basket case. No secure electricity source, no production of any note, no way in or out except by rickety boats, and which is costing Putin millions of rubles he can't afford to lose. You can forget the joke of a bridge they're contemplating on building. Everyone knows the lousy quality of Russian engineering so expecting a bridge to stay upright for long is a fantasy. Even the people are sick of Putin and his lies:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/18/euphoria-fades-in-crimea-after-a-year-of-russian-rule.html

 

[EternalFantasies]

Even TASS admitted businesses are suffering because of power shortages:

http://tass.com/economy/851001

The Crimea is a basket case. No secure electricity source, no production of any note, no way in or out except by rickety boats, and which is costing Putin millions of rubles he can't afford to lose. You can forget the joke of a bridge they're contemplating on building. Everyone knows the lousy quality of Russian engineering so expecting a bridge to stay upright for long is a fantasy. Even the people are sick of Putin and his lies:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/18/euphoria-fades-in-crimea-after-a-year-of-russian-rule.html

I'll just use this as an example: sabotage blew up two electricity towers....

so i dont' get you, and i also don't get the rest of your post.

Crimeans always wanted to be part of Russia. They are Russian.

I'm not going to believe you, the LA times or a Dem HR!

 

[EternalFantasies]

I can easily believe that, since Crimea was always part of Russia until Khruschev (a Ukrainian) reassigned it to the Ukraine, and I have no objection to it remaining part of Russia forever. But it remains a fact that the means the Russians used to bring it about included armed invasion. And tolerating Russian irredentism is going to cause a lot of trouble down the road; they might demand the Russian-majority border region of Moldova next.

Any Russian majority area needs to have a choice to join the Russian federation or not. Why not.

And its not an invasion when Crimean people ask you to come help them secede.

No evidence the referendum was fixed.

Ukraine was simply imposing coz they wanted the strategic location of Crimea. but it's Russian, and yes people live better among their own. They Don't have melting pots there, they got thick heads and mentalities.


The real question one should be asking is: why is this a much bigger fuss in the Comey hearing than in Crimea!

 

[Hard_Rom]

Russia had a different opinion on the righteousness of US involvement in Vietnam and Cuba. Only a convenient flat tire stopped them from vetoing the Korean War. All nations put a cant on stories. All political parties do. It's not lying! T-Rump didn't 'lie' when he said he was wire tapped. The Democrats did not lie when the said the Crimea was taken by force.

Anyone think Putin was going to give up access to the Black Sea is dreaming. If referendum had gone against him he still would have sent troops in under some excuse.

The Ukraine and Kiev are the ancient Russian homeland. Be a blow to have it slip into western influence.

 

[EternalFantasies]

It's like there's some major war, and alaska becomes part of russia.

Then, decades later, Alaskans with the US's help orchestrate to secede and re-join the US.

Then Russia goes to the UN, and in their parliament, and says: The US invaded Alaska!

It's that dumb.


Don't you wish people still went by the Lord's Golden rule?

 

[hashtag46]

There was this article published in the Guardian a few years ago, which speculated on the real motivations behind the United States' and Northern European countries' unusual interest in such an insignificant country as Ukraine.
I wonder if that still applies today:

"As the pipeline map demonstrates, US oil and gas majors like Chevron and Exxon are increasingly encroaching on Gazprom's regional monopoly, undermining Russia's energy hegemony over Europe.

Ukraine is caught hapless in the midst of this accelerating struggle to dominate Eurasia's energy corridors in the last decades of the age of fossil fuels."

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-crisis-great-power-oil-gas-rivals-pipelines



Ukrainian Gas Pipelines

http://www.eegas.com/images/ukrmap.gif

 

[hashtag46]

I'll suggest to you this, since i know you people hold onto articles and wiki like mantra.

Grab someone from Crimea and asked them what happened. You'll have a different story.

Crimea is majority Russian. they have wanted to join Russia for ever. The Tatars too, but those for economical reasons. The "Ukrainaians" living in Crimea speak Russian like everyone else and not Ukrainian.

The only ones pissed with this arrangement were the pro west people who are mainly business people who want oil pipeline revenue, which their Prez was betraying Russia and attempting to sign-off on a pipeline deal so as the GCC states especially Qatar could sell gas to Europe. Today, Russia is the main supplier.

Crimeans knew its in their best long term interest to deal with Russia and not Arab states. So they orchestrated it. If Russia helped them do it, and its in their interest too, it is not an invasion. These are the same people.

That Dem HR knows it too. Hence "he's lying".

I just saw this.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The Russian aggressions were based partially upon economic considerations but even more on the signaling of the Obama Administration that the US was disengaging from the world of deeds and retreating to the lofty world of ideas, words and deferential diplomacy.

 

[Parminderjeet]

The Russian aggressions were based partially upon economic considerations but even more on the signaling of the Obama Administration that the US was disengaging from the world of deeds and retreating to the lofty world of ideas, words and deferential diplomacy.

Obama put America first?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Any Russian majority area needs to have a choice to join the Russian federation or not. Why not.

Because the government of the country they live in now might object, and that might lead to who knows what. That is a can of worms best left unopened.

 

[Comshaw]

Firstly i'd like to point out that it was quite funny how suddenly it is the Dems that are so concerned with Russian bad enemy business...

This thread is strictly about Russia & Crimea - not Russia and US elections.

The Dem HR who made a narrative to plug in a piece about how Russia invaded Crimea is lying. If the US did not recognize an internal referendum of another nation, the US doesn't get to label as it pleases...

Crimea had a referendum. Crimea is two thirds Russian as is it ethnically, and the majority of what's left are Tatars. The Tatars could use being part of Russia and get badly needed community funding, so they added to the majority vote of the Russian Crimeans, not to mention the Ukrainians themselves living in Crimea who voted to join Russia. So the province of Crimea passed a referendum at 97% of people choosing to secede and joining Russia.

Kiev not wanting to recognize the referendum, Russians simply forced its implementation.

There are no oppression going on, there is no protests, everyone's happy.

Of course it is! If you can't defend it, deflect. If you can't deflect attention, lie. If you are found out, tell a bigger one. Ain't this administration and its blind foot soldiers grand?????



Comshaw

 

[spacekowboy]

Firstly i'd like to point out that it was quite funny how suddenly it is the Dems that are so concerned with Russian bad enemy business...

This thread is strictly about Russia & Crimea - not Russia and US elections.

The Dem HR who made a narrative to plug in a piece about how Russia invaded Crimea is lying. If the US did not recognize an internal referendum of another nation, the US doesn't get to label as it pleases...

Crimea had a referendum. Crimea is two thirds Russian as is it ethnically, and the majority of what's left are Tatars. The Tatars could use being part of Russia and get badly needed community funding, so they added to the majority vote of the Russian Crimeans, not to mention the Ukrainians themselves living in Crimea who voted to join Russia. So the province of Crimea passed a referendum at 97% of people choosing to secede and joining Russia.

Kiev not wanting to recognize the referendum, Russians simply forced its implementation.

There are no oppression going on, there is no protests, everyone's happy.

According to this theory Ol' Adlof was completely justified in annexing the Rhineland.
Plenty of German speaking folks in that area, there was.

There's lots of spanish speaking folks in California, Arizona, and Texas. We should let Mexico come annex them, yes?

You douche bags are all about border security only when it suits you.

 

[KingOrfeo]

According to this theory Ol' Adlof was completely justified in annexing the Rhineland.

Different situation. The Rhineland was already part of Germany -- it was Hitler's to govern and to tax, but not to garrison with troops, the Versailles Treaty forbade that because any German invasion of France would have to start there.

 

[hashtag46]

Many americans assume that Crimea has cultural affinities with Ukraine.
They're wrong.
Crimea has a different history to Ukraine, and it has more cultural and demographic affinities with Russia.

When Nikita Khrushchev decided to transfer Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, only 25% of the population were ukrainian. The rest were mostly russians and a small tatar minority.
Even if the majority of tatars, greeks and armenians were deported by Stalin prior to that, ukrainians have always been in minority.

There are several speculations about Kruschev rationale for the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine, alongside the official version given. The consensus is that the transfer was politically motivated. Not culturally

 

[KingOrfeo]

Many americans assume that Crimea has cultural affinities with Ukraine.
They're wrong.

They're right. Russia has cultural affinities with Ukraine.

 

[hashtag46]

They're right. Russia has cultural affinities with Ukraine.

And your head has affinities with your ass.

 

[Hard_Rom]

According to this theory Ol' Adlof was completely justified in annexing the Rhineland.
Plenty of German speaking folks in that area, there was.

There's lots of spanish speaking folks in California, Arizona, and Texas. We should let Mexico come annex them, yes?

You douche bags are all about border security only when it suits you.

The Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia with it's German ethnic population would have been a better example.