Democracy's Discontent

[lavender]

 

[riff]

I don't remember the author. I don't remember the publication (might have been Harpers) but I read a most convincing essay on human rights.

The premise was simple. Elegantly simple and brilliant.

We need to quit focusing on "rights" and begin focusing on "suffering."

Rights are abstract. Suffering is not.

It's not about rights. It's about suffering- and how each of us can help ease it.

I have a purpose in life.

 

[seXieleXie]

<hijack>
oh my god riff! that cat is so cute! it's so blue and puffy! i just wanna snugggle it! :-D
</hijack>

 

[REDWAVE]

Stale and jejune

Typical sterile academic theorizing in a vacuum. Sandel is not addressing the important underlying issues of American society today: the massive growth in inequality of wealth and income, the de-industrialization of the Midwest and the move to a service-based (i.e., lower paying, less secure jobs) economy, the merger mania resulting in the concentration of ever greater wealth in fewer and fewer hands, etc.

As far as government legislating morality, we now have a government that is very much attempting to do that, even to the point of Bush telling welfare moms they should get married.

Communities dissolving? You bet. Under the impact of "downsizing," the assault on wages and living conditions, the gutting of social programs, the massive distribution of wealth upwards begun by Reagan and intensifying today, it's virtually impossible to hold together a viable community anywhere. Capitalism in its decrepitude is created a wasteland.

Government seen as increasingly unresponsive? Why, it's not unresponsive at all if you have big bucks to donate to a political campaign! Then it's very responsive.

Civic republicanism as the answer? I don't think so. The Hahvahd polysci prof should get out of the ivory tower, and stick his nose into the real world.

 

[riff]

<hijack>
oh my god riff! that cat is so cute! it's so blue and puffy! i just wanna snugggle it! :-D
</hijack>

Of course you do. Who wouldn't? I am looking for one, but have not made a decison. I very well may go get a cat from the shelter. And maybe I should fork over the cash and get me a Russian Blue while I am at it. I really want twins.

</unhijack>

How to ease suffering. Rights don't help if they do not ease suffering.

 

[riff]

Re: Stale and jejune

Typical sterile academic theorizing in a vacuum. Sandel is not addressing the important underlying issues of American society today: the massive growth in inequality of wealth and income, the de-industrialization of the Midwest and the move to a service-based (i.e., lower paying, less secure jobs) economy, the merger mania resulting in the concentration of ever greater wealth in fewer and fewer hands, etc.

As far as government legislating morality, we now have a government that is very much attempting to do that, even to the point of Bush telling welfare moms they should get married.

Communities dissolving? You bet. Under the impact of "downsizing," the assault on wages and living conditions, the gutting of social programs, the massive distribution of wealth upwards begun by Reagan and intensifying today, it's virtually impossible to hold together a viable community anywhere. Capitalism in its decrepitude is created a wasteland.

Government seen as increasingly unresponsive? Why, it's not unresponsive at all if you have big bucks to donate to a political campaign! Then it's very responsive.

Civic republicanism as the answer? I don't think so. The Hahvahd polysci prof should get out of the ivory tower, and stick his nose into the real world.

This is good shit. Marxism. Like Jesus, he was write about a lot of things.

Although he was wrong about some. Economics does not change shit. It only distracts.

Bring the mind and the ass will follow.

 

[Laurel]

I disagree.

 

[REDWAVE]

With what? Or do you just disagree with everything?

 

[Laurel]

Oh, everything.

I disagree with the idea that we're freer/safer/happier under a government that legislates morality.

Whose morality? Who decides?

 

[riff]

I disagree.

With whom? Or is this just a matter of principle?

If it concerns principle. Well, go on. We are listening.

 

[REDWAVE]

Who else?

Why, the Christian Coalition's morality, of course, and John Ashcroft will decide. You can trust him-- he's a good man. Why, Dubya himself says so.

 

[REDWAVE]

Riff

I have no idea what you were trying to say there, but I love the line "Bring the mind and the ass will follow."

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Oh, everything.

I disagree with the idea that we're freer/safer/happier under a government that legislates morality.

Whose morality? Who decides?

I agree with you Laurel

I don't like what Pope George W. Bush and his Altar Boy John Ashcroft are doing trying to legislate thier "christianity".

*notice chreistianity is in quotes because if you study the core of his christianity its the farthest thing from it that one can get. Its a wolf in sheeps clothing christianity. The scary thing is Pope Bush is succeeding, and that is very scary.

Faith based initiative need to be abolished as fast as slave restituion does.

 

[riff]

Morality? Every decision is a moral decision. America is supposed to be a government of the people and by the people. If our government is immoral, it's only because we are.

Laurel- you are as moral as anyone else. And if you could legislate your morality, you would. I would.

This is not a shot at you, kitty. It's reality. I tend to agree with your brand of morality (so far as I know). That's cool.

We would all do well to remember that Satanists are extremely religious people.

 

[Laurel]

Sandel asserts that our desire to keep government out of moral decisions and to claim things such as "government should not legislate morality" we actually disenfranchise our citizenry.

This makes no sense. How does the government deciding the morality/immorality of personal issues such as abortion and sexula preference help to "enfranchise" citizens? How does the government telling me I can or can't be gay make me freer/safer?

What suffering does this alleviate?

 

[lavender]

 

[riff]

Ashcroft is a NAZI pedophile. At least these are my thoughts.

"Sharing is communistic."

 

[riff]

For the record: I disagree with Sandel. I'm too deliriously tired at this point to make a coherent argument though.

You just need a good assfucking.... LOL

 

[REDWAVE]

Shock

My God, Todd and I actually agree on something. I'm in shock.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: Shock

My God, Todd and I actually agree on something. I'm in shock.

You would be surprised what we agree on the only problem is we are looking for the solution in two dyametrically different directions

 

[Laurel]

Morality? Every decision is a moral decision. America is supposed to be a government of the people and by the people. If our government is immoral, it's only because we are.

Laurel- you are as moral as anyone else. And if you could legislate your morality, you would. I would.

No, I wouldn't...because as much as I believe I'm right, I don't believe that forcing my morals on the country would make the world a better place. If a woman feels uncomfortable watching/reading porn, who am I to tell her it's good, important, or necessary? If she wants to go to church, who am I to tell her she's wrong?

Not everyone is like me. I wouldn't want them to be, either. I think a country flourishes when everyone is allowed to stretch their wings, explore who they are and what they want to be. I don't think people do well stuffed into moral boxes made by others.

This is not a shot at you, kitty. It's reality. I tend to agree with your brand of morality (so far as I know). That's cool.

I didn't take it as a shot. All's cool.

We would all do well to remember that Satanists are extremely religious people.

Good for them. I think they're silly, but that's just MHO. So long as they don't interfere with other people's right to live as they please, they can believe whatever silly shit they want to believe.

Rather than legislate morality, I think the government should spend its time educating the poor. By enlarging the middle class and making more people into productive members of society, we all win.

 

[riff]

No such thing as "amoral."

I hear you, Laurel, and you are persuasive because I am like-minded, but if anything... if any argument is to be made then it must be articulated. Our government is a government of law (or at least we are so deluded). Law is logocentric. We must find the words, and thereby the POWER to work against what laws we find unjust.

The majority of the American public is illiterate. Oh, they read fine, but they ARE illiterate.

If I were fed pussy and food non-stop, I would care nothing about this, I only want to add.

 

[Kalyn]

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.