Degradation & Humiliation

[Cherry]

Could someone explain how or why that is beneficial to the submissive?

I can understand the satisfaction of 'power over will' and 'punishment' aspects that might appeal to a Dom/me ... but, in a loving bond, how does this nurture and benefit the submissive?

Do the milder techniques of either lead to the extreme eventually?

Where is the love and protection when you surrender yourself so completely to the will of another who would degrade and humiliate you?

 

[cymbidia]

Cherry, first you have to understand and accept that all of us find different things sexually exciting.

With the right Dom/me, for example, i find the whole act of him/her pushing a needle through my tender parts to be incredibly arousing. I accept, however, that others will not ever understand my feelings for this and, in fact, are horrified that *i* like it.

In like vein, i'm incredulous that anyone would want and insist on a sexual relationship wherein both partners held equal amounts of power all the time. I don't understand not wanting to submit, insisting on equality with your partner, and, honestly, such an arrangement would never satisfy me in a thousand years because i would find it unfulfilling and frustrating.

In a like vein, something being done to you might be a thing that you would find degrading and humiliating but a thing that i would *not* find to be the same.

Let's take an example: Suppose you're at a nice party. Everyone is having fun. You're wearing a very nice dress and you feel great. Your partner comes up to you and, in front of a few people you're standing around talking to, tells you calmly to go into the bathroom, remove your bra, slip it into your purse, and rejoin them.

Perhaps you would find that impossible to do. Perhaps it would make you feel humiliated or anxious or angry or something unpleasant. Perhaps, though, your partner knows that above all else, you want to please him, in anything you do, and he knows, too, that you have little exhibitionistic side going. In that case, he's actually working to please you. His request may make you blush, yes, but it's something you need to be whole. It arouses you. You want it - but you'll not do it on your own. He knows you, though, knows what you want and need - and he pulls it from you because he cares for you and his needs match yours.

What you see as degradation and humiliation, Cherry, is probably not that to the people involved if they're in a mutually consensual BDSM relationships.

There is a difference between abuse and BDSM.
They are as opposite each other as is anything on the world, as a matter of fact.

In BDSM relationships, everything that happens between two people is by mutual consent.

In abusive relationships, one person is hurting the other and only that first person is benefiting.

Humiliation and degradation are emotional words, words that pull a response form us all.

I don't want to be leashed and collared, on my hands and knees eating dog food from a bowl, not in public or private. I would find that unpleasantly humiliating. however, i'd go take my bra off at that party, with everyone watching me go in there to obey my Dom/me. That wouldn't be a bad humiliation to me, it would be a thing of needs-met humiliation.

There's a difference, and that difference between the good and bad kinds of humiliation is different for each of us.

Did this go a little way toward answering your question?

 

[Cherry]

Did this go a little way toward answering your question?

Yes ... thank you, Cym

There was a reason that I asked ... not as someone who was being judgemental, nor having misconceptions ... but rather, as someone who escaped from a long term relationship that became somewhat abusive.

I agree, that the milder examples you gave were acceptable practices. I think what summed your explanation up for me was:

In abusive relationships, one person is hurting the other and only that first person is benefiting.

Thus, was my experience with Humiliation & Degradation.

And from your wisdom, I understand that milder forms can be nurturing.

Still, my question is, "Do the milder techniques of either lead to the extreme eventually?" Does the initial training lead to the level of acceptance for more severe? Is it meant to break you, or to strengthen your trust? Should it violate your self-respect? And how do you know, if when you give your trust and love completely, that the person you give it to IS considerate of your betterment and growth?

Consensual permission can be clouded by mind-control techniques, over the course of time, as one's level of acceptance changes. If you believe your trust is warranted, or give it hesitantly ... at which point do you question the motivation, or the result?

 

[Guest]

Cherry,
I hope I can help answer your question.
Before any type of "play", I would hope limits would be discussed. And a formal contract would be agreed upon and signed. There are boundaries and trust that must be present to insure the Safe, Sane, and Consensual aspects of BDSM relationships.
I saw an article that may help you find answers.
http://www.adarkwhisper.com/sub/coerced.htm

Be well!

 

[Cherry]

That was excellent, raindancer ... thank you

 

[cymbidia]

I'm so sorry you had a brush with an abusive relationship, Cherry, and glad you had the strength to get away from it. It's amazing how many of us have had to face ourselves in a mirror late at night, tears streaming down our faces, and whisper i have to get away from him to the scared woman, an almost-stranger, who's looking back at us.

BDSM is never abusive.
Never.
Never.

They're opposites.

Still, my question is, "Do the milder techniques of either lead to the extreme eventually?" Does the initial training lead to the level of acceptance for more severe? Is it meant to break you, or to strengthen your trust? Should it violate your self-respect? And how do you know, if when you give your trust and love completely, that the person you give it to IS considerate of your betterment and growth?

As with every single human endeavor, as one progresses in familiarity with it, whatever "it" is (painting, macrame, giving dog obedience classes, collecting rare china cream pitchers, arranging flowers, oral sex techniques, "doing" BDSM, fixing cars, practicing law, harnessing a horse, using a whip accurately, etc.), one longs for more challenges.

Unlike collecting hot wheels cars, a thing one can do in a solitary fashion, to "do" BDSM, one has to have a partner. To get really good at one thing in particular, one has to have a partner that (1) likes to do that thing (whatever it is), too, and (2) sticks around one's life long enough to get good at it, too, or (3) comes to one already good at and them you can both learn from each other.

In plain words, if i need what we could all agree was some of the milder forms of humiliation and degradation for whatever reason, and you needed it too, but from the other side, then we would be a good match. (We would match well in that area, anyway. BDSM is *so* full of sexual interest stuff like humiliation/degradation that it's a fucking miracle any of us finds a partner.) Over time, our needs would mesh, you and i, as we became closer and we pushed each other toward the edge of what was good and hot and sexual and desireable...and...what was scarybad and unpleasant and no good and off limits.

If we were in a real BDSM relationship (read: one that is mutually consensual) then i would never push you to take me past the lines of what you could handle and you would never push me there on your own.

That would leave a lot of space in which we could explore, though, our mutual fetish for, let;s say, public exhibitionism. We wouldn't want to do anything that would attract the attention of the law, for instance, or ever ever ever around kids, but that would *still* leave lots of room. As we journeyed together, we would grow closer, we would come to love and respect and honor each other more completely, and our relationship would solidify.

To outsiders, it might look as if you were pushing me to do things in public that were wrong. Humiliating things. Things that you, the outsider, would *NEVER* do at all ever in a million years.

You would be right - for you.
You are not right, however, for me and my partner.

For us, that slow gliding dance toward, but not over, the edge of what we can both handle is the rush and the thrill and dance that completes us as lovers, as partners, as people. For us, that pushing toward but not over the edge is what we need to be whole. For us, Cherry, that movement from the initial mild forms of what you call degrading and humiliating behavior is a dance of love and trust. It's something we do with each other as we come to trust each other more and more and as the bedrock of openness and shared experiences upon which every single BDSM of worth is based leads a strengthening of our trust in each other.

Such play should not violate your self respect. It should build you into a stronger, more capable, more feeling person. Sometimes, it may make tears of embarassment spring into your eyes. Sometimes you'll feel in your heart that you're not ready for "this", whatever "this" is. Then you need to talk to your partner. You need to say your fears. You need to express your anxieties. You need to be heard. We do a *LOT* of talking in BDSM relationships, Cherry. How else can we keep each other safe if we don't talk? How else can we know what fantasies are bubbling up and begging for touching? How else can we know when to push and about what - or when to draw back and talk, instead?

Such play should never break a submissive. As Dom/mes here and elsewhere have said over and over, who wants a broken toy?

When you give your trust and love, you never know if the person to whom you're giving it is worthy of such an astoishing gift, do you? Not really. Not 100%. At some point, you have to trust that they're worthy. Perhaps they're going to be a positive force in your life forever, maybe it'll only go for a few years, maybe they'll end up being a mistake in your life: one never really knows. After a time of getting to kow them, of developing feelings about them and for them, at some point, one... simply... trusts that person will be considerate of one's betterment and growth.

So it is with all human relationship, love, work, friendship, whatever.

At some point, we invite them into our lives, or we keep them on the periphery of our feelings and our heart.

To us, submissives, the danger of being badly used is perhaps more serious since we let them tie us up and flog us, at the least. Still, we choose our Dom/mes like anyone else chooses their love partners.

We're the same as you.

Consensual permission can be clouded by mind-control techniques, over the course of time, as one's level of acceptance changes. If you believe your trust is warranted, or give it hesitantly ... at which point do you question the motivation, or the result?

I gotta go talk to someone about new blinds in my new house. Later, gator, i promise. (If someone else doesn't get to this first... hint hint hint)

 

[cymbidia]

Consensual permission can be clouded by mind-control techniques, over the course of time, as one's level of acceptance changes.

I'm not sure what you mean by mind control techniques, Cherry. Do you mean the deliberate massaging of someone's belief system to get them to accept things they would not accept willingly when uncontrolled?

That's despicable.
It's underhanded.
It's wrong.
It's non-consensual, Cherry, and therefore, it's not -by definition- a thing contained within the warm embrace of a good BDSM relationship.

Repeat after me:
Good BDSM relationships are always Safe, Sane and Consensual.

Again.
Say it again.
Out loud.
Good BDSM relationships are always Safe, Sane and Consensual.

Again, louder:
Good BDSM relationships are always Safe, Sane and Consensual.

If someone is controlling your mind, Cherry, and making you do/feel/say/taste/smell/wear/etc things you don't want have any part of, is that safe? Is it sane? Is it consensual?

If not, it is not a thing of good BDSM practices.

Clear?


Okay. So. Your scenario: Someone is controlling your mind and causing you to give permission to things you might not give permission to were they not controlling your mind.

Coercement. Non-consensual. Ergo: Abusive. Call the cops.
It's a pretty straightforward formula, Chery.

However, we all want to please the person with whom we may be falling in love, don't we? We bend and shape ourselves to reflect what that so-exciting new person wants from us to at least a small degree, don't we? Such is human nature and something most submissives do as amatter of course at the beginning of most of our relationships.

When is that bending, that yearning toward a Dominant a good thing and necessary to our fully unfolding as a good submissive to *that* Dominant - and when is it a dangerous thing, a thing that's contorting us beyond where we should be going, a contortion that Dom/me is reinforcing by rewarding the contortion and disciplining the attempts at logic and assertion of self?

This is a dangerous situation for all submissives, and even moreso for those of us who are inexperienced in dealing with the powerful tide of needs and emotions that an evolving BDSM relationship carries with it automatically.

Go read WD's post (sticky at the top of the forum) about pretenders. If your Dominant exhibits any of the bad behaviors, you have every right to ask him/her to explain them.

Additionally, if you feel at all unsafe, STOP and do an internal examination of *why* you're feeling so.

Finally, if your Dominant doesn't seem to want to know you, inside and out, your dreams and plans and hopes and needs, if all your Dominant wants is to use you as one would use a fashionable accessory or a rag doll, then warning bells should be going off.

Mind control bullshit is for pussies.
Real Dominants don't fuck with our minds. (Okay. The do sometimes but only in special cases, like unless that mind fuck is a thing of a scene and we know what's happening ahead of time and it's beneficial and... and... and... it will never hurt us. It's NOT something a new-to-you Dominant does to his/her new submissive, either so don't worry about it.)

Real Dominants value us for who and what we are.
They need us just like we need them.
It's the ultimate in a symbiotic relationship.

If you believe your trust is warranted, or give it hesitantly ... at which point do you question the motivation, or the result?

If my dominant does something that hurts me in a bad way, something physical or mental or emotional or whatever, if s/he abuses my trust in a way that causes splinters or fractures in that trust, then the entire relationship is lessened and made weaker.

I question the motivation of my Dominant when they've given me reason to do so.

It's a hard thing for a submissive to do, that questioning. It flies in the face of what we so yearn to be, what we so need our Dominant to be. But sometimes we have to question. sometimes we have to face hard truths about the honor of the one we so yearn to give our soul to, the one we may already have given our soul to.

Self-preservation requires that we protect ourselves, though, and so we do it. We ask ourselves the hard questions about our Dominant's motivations and/or the results of their use and handing and care of us.

Sometimes we get unpleasant answers, answers that wound us to the soul, answers that require us to move away from that Dominant. Such is life. We don't win every time, we open-hearted submissives. No one does.

On the whole, real, live, honest-to-god BDSM'ers are far more likely to be honest about who they are and what they need and what they want from you than are non-BDSM'ers. I think it's because we spend so much time contemplating the edge of things, and going there with a partner, and we *know* we have have trust and respect and honor in and of that partner to walk the edge safely - and so we must offer the same in response.



Or maybe i'm just full of shit.
That could be, too.

 

[Cherry]

Cym,

Thank you so much, for the time and thought put into your posts. I do appreciate it, and they were extremely informative.

You need not worry for me ... I am out of the bad relationship.

It got to the point that all of the things you mentioned became very clear to me ... the manipulation became more obvious, as I questioned it. When I examined myself, and the levels to which I had fallen, I made a decision to move on alone. It took me a little while to regain my strength, it was difficult at times not to give in to the pressure to return. I had to remind myself that the apologies, explanations and promises in themselves were manipulative attempts to regain control ... not heartful and true.

Luckily, within the following year, I met my wonderful man. In his goodness and knowledge, I have regained my being. He is a stronger man ... wise of the ways of the world ... he listens and then explains ... he put me back up on my feet and gave me a slap on the ass ... and then we grew together as one. The dominance/submission aspect is still there, but now in a natural form ... understood psyches, but not necessarily practiced roles.

The one remaining question about my previous relationship, that still haunted my mind, was why it had evolved to a hurtful extreme. This was a man who professed to love me ... why did he want to hurt me? During the parting time, I asked him the same question ... his answer was that he "got carried away with the power trip, and didn't realize I was so fragile". That in itself spoke volumes to me ... again, he blamed his actions on my perceived fragility ... as if a stronger woman would have been a more worthy recipient of his abuse. The abuse was real ... you would have thought so, too.

This was typical of the type of mind control that I mentioned before ... subliminal referrence to my failures that were often introduced during weak moments of sleep deprivation or high emotional periods. He would batter me emotionally, until I finally gave in.

When that ploy no longer worked, after I had some time to recoup, he changed his tactics somewhat ... but still, faulted me for changing with "you are not submissive, at all" ... "where has my sweet, little sub gone to?" ... "who is this monster that you have become?" ... "I do NOT like these changes in you!"

With my feet firmly planted, I responded, "It was YOU who failed me" ... "I gave you my heart, but you wanted to destroy my very soul" ... "YOU changed, as well".

But, the questions remain ...
When you give yourself so completely, does it promote an illusion of power to your partner that could become detrimental to yourself? Does the euphoria of power and control become addictive, and eventually harmful? Should you always hold back a little to retain your own choices? How do consensual agreements maintain, as the levels of acceptability degrade little by little?

In retrospect, I no longer blame him. I think it was mostly that he was a lesser man than I believed he was. He let his dark side overule his love for me ... and maybe, because I gave him that control to do so.

I, too, have learned some lessons. To be more aware of the red flags waving ... to question immediately ... to make my feelings known readily ... to be more communicative ... and to recognize and acknowledge both the good and the bad of every relationship: lover, friend or foe.

And, sometimes ... the sheer comparison of past and present relationships is the reward for learning from mistakes.

 

[GambitandRogue]

Cym, I have read many of theposts you have made, and you are very eloquent with your words and very thorough. I have learned so much and I hope I can convince my husband to read this as well so he can understand. I have been in a similar realtionship as Cherry has described in the past, although it wasn't an obvious D/s situation. It was more of a "normal" (if there is such a thing LMBO) relationship, but he was extremely controlling, mentally abusive, and degrading. Thank God I got out of it alive, regardless of the stalking and death threats. I learned from this experience that I could be very strong and that I would never allow someone tohave that kind of control over me again.

I have extreme submissive tendencies sexually though. I crave it with all my being, and unitl reading these threads here, I never realized that D/s wasn't degrading and unfulfilling for the sub.

I guess I wanted to say thank you for opening my eyes and helping me learn about something that may change my life for the better...

Rogue

 

[RisiaSkye]

But, the questions remain ...
When you give yourself so completely, does it promote an illusion of power to your partner that could become detrimental to yourself? Does the euphoria of power and control become addictive, and eventually harmful? Should you always hold back a little to retain your own choices? How do consensual agreements maintain, as the levels of acceptability degrade little by little?

It is an important question, I think. As I've seen, even a strong and experienced submissive (just like egalitarian lovers) can fall victim to abuse because they love without reservation or self-preservation, because they don't question the things they should, don't heed the warning signs. Love is a dangerous and risky thing, and not just for BDSMers, either.

This is purely my own thought, but this is how I describe the idea to myself: Power is not addictive; anyone who's seduced by the power and not the partner isn't a Dominant, they're a manipulator. Manipulation isn't Dominance, it's coersion; D/s requires open communication, not emotional blackmail.

There is a difference between submission and surrender, and we must learn this difference if we are to protect ourselves. Thank you for the candid and sincere reminder, Cherry.

 

[cymbidia]

Oh Rouge, if you only knew how totally fragile andwrong i've been feeling over the last handful of days, you could begin to imagine how moved i was by your kind words. Thank you. We all need to feel, don't we, that we're making some kinda difference to each other, even if those differences are small but real?

Thank you for saying what you said in your post. I hope all goes for you as you wish it, as you dream it. To the brave and honest go the good things, Rouge, most often anyway.

Good BDSM relationships are not abusive.
They're empowering and strengthening.
Forever and ever, amen.

 

[cymbidia]

As I've seen, even a strong and experienced submissive (just like egalitarian lovers) can fall victim to abuse because they love without reservation or self-preservation, because they don't question the things they should, don't heed the warning signs. Love is a dangerous and risky thing, and not just for BDSMers, either.

Me. That was me.

If i can fall into something bad and not know, then anyone can - and not cuz i'm wonderful perfect excellent wise and better than that but because, by now, i should know better.

Love is a more powerful blindfold, a more effective gag, than anything that can be constructed of leather or rubber or cloth.

And then you feel stupid besides feeling betrayed.
You feel the loss of the relationship and the anger and the shame and all of it...




R... thank you. You know why. I love you.

 

[GambitandRogue]

Oh Rouge, if you only knew how totally fragile andwrong i've been feeling over the last handful of days, you could begin to imagine how moved i was by your kind words. Thank you. We all need to feel, don't we, that we're making some kinda difference to each other, even if those differences are small but real?

Thank you for saying what you said in your post. I hope all goes for you as you wish it, as you dream it. To the brave and honest go the good things, Rouge, most often anyway.

Good BDSM relationships are not abusive.
They're empowering and strengthening.
Forever and ever, amen.

Cym, you have DEFINATELY made a difference! I am sure I am not the only one moved by your words. You are truely a gem of this board.

Rogue

 

[Richard49]

Mind control?

After reading the p[osts on this thread......well......

If I instruct a sub to do something that brings her sexual excitment......allows her to feel owned and loved....but brings her embarssment etc. than am I abusive?

Richard

 

[Anne_T]

Humiliation

The interplay of humiliation and pleasure is complex and ever changing. There is no one rule that distinguishes hurtful actions from those of intense pleasure. We can experience multiple emotions at the same time...it is the relationship between the top and bottom that allows for the second by second fine tuning of the experience.

 

[James Blandings]

Re: Mind control?

After reading the p[osts on this thread......well......

If I instruct a sub to do something that brings her sexual excitment......allows her to feel owned and loved....but brings her embarssment etc. than am I abusive?

Richard

I dont think so,and I dont think anyone else on this thread would say so either. The important thing is that although the thing you have her do may embarrass her, she is still free to refuse. If she does it to feel owned and loved, great. If she feels coerced into doing it, thats abuse.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Mind control?

I dont think so,and I dont think anyone else on this thread would say so either. The important thing is that although the thing you have her do may embarrass her, she is still free to refuse. If she does it to feel owned and loved, great. If she feels coerced into doing it, thats abuse.

How would you define coerced in a BDSM relationship?

Richard

 

[cellis]

I think this is such an individual thing... what is humiliation for one person is not for another, and when the act brings some kind of sexual gratification, well is that not the desired pay-off?

When a Dom/me asks a sub to do something that they don't want to do, but they do it anyway, maybe in the beginning more to please the Dom/me than themselves. And in committing this act there is humiliation involved and sexual excitement was well, then is this not just a case of the Dom/me taking the sub to a new level? Knowing what the sub needs, or wants, even before the sub does?

 

[James Blandings]

Re: Re: Re: Mind control?

How would you define coerced in a BDSM relationship?

Richard

That's a great question. I would say that any time a person does something they really dont want to do out of a real fear of the consequences of refusing, that is coercion. Thats tricky, because of course many people are involved in a punishment/reward situation in which they dont want to be punished, but if the relationship has an ethical basis, they have already consented to that arrangement, so that is not to my thinking coercion. On the other hand, if the sub fears real physical or emotional harm, that is coercion. This is a gray area. I have a good freind who tells her subs that if they disobey her even once, they will be cut off from all contact with her permanently. To me, this is coercive and i am uncomfortable with it. She doesnt recognize that neither she or her subs are human, they are not perfect.
I am struggling to be able to answer this question clearly, and the closest I can come is to say that if the submissive obeys out of fear, and not respect, that is coercion.

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mind control?

I am struggling to be able to answer this question clearly, and the closest I can come is to say that if the submissive obeys out of fear, and not respect, that is coercion.

Doesn't all D/s realtionships have at lest a little fear of consequences ?

Richard

 

[Anne_T]

Coercion

You are asking very provocative questions, Richard.

Fear of punishment is an integral part of *some* D/s relationships. The relationship that I am in, for instance, has as an assumption that I *will* be punished. Do I still fear it? Yes, but I know there is no avoiding it. If my Master asks me to do something, with the threat of punishment if I do not...am I coerced unethically into doing it? My choice in obeying rests upon my own limits, my trust in my relationship and subtle negotiation with my Master. Ultimatums and belief in 100% obediance are, as pointed out, un-sustainable. My love of punishment and humiliation make it necessary and desirable for me to have those things in my life. However, if my Master were abusive of my trust then our relationship would suffer no matter what my kink is.
Any long term relationship is predicated on these assumptions - trust, keeping the other foremost in mind, honest communication. D/s is no different in practice than any other committed relationship.

So am I coerced into things that are humiliating to me? Yes. Have I gotten sexual or personal gratification from every single one of those acts? No. Does my Master understand this? Yes. Do I wish that I only had gratifying acts to perform? No...I have learned that part of my maturation as a submissive is to learn that my gratification does not always come from my ultimate pleasure. Are there concievable acts which I would not let myself be 'coerced' into doing? Of course there are, even with my deeply loved Master. So it goes, round and round. We push and pull each other, stretching, relaxing, loving.


Anne

 

[Guest]

Here's another article on the subject, Cherry.

http://www.adarkwhisper.com/general/humiliation.html

 

[monster666]

I wrestled with this very issue for the past few months, and I have just decided what is appropriate for myself in the past few days.

While I will submit to an awful lot for my SO's pleasure, never will I submit to humiliation just for the sake of being humiliated. I have spoken with several Dommes in the past, and this has been a dealbreaker early on several times - before even meeting. I asked once why she would humiliate someone deliberately - her reply was "because I can!".

Inadequate. Woefully. At least for me it is.

Maybe I am not really cut out for D/s, but it seems to me that someone in love would not humiliate their SO just for the sake of it, regardless of role.

If I love her and she loves me then I want to please her in any way I can - I want to make her dreams come true. But I have a hard time feeling loved when she's being outright mean. To me, this is what deliberate humiliation is.

That said, there are some things that might be humiliating for some that I might do if it is part of a scene that she's really hot for. I can get by a lot of negative feelings about a thing if I feel she's getting something she really wants OTHER than my degradation.

But humiliation for the sake of it? It seems like one of those things that crosses the line of what BDSM is really supposed to be about; it's just another form of abuse. Or at least it seems so to me. If I am wrong, then I am. But it just doesn't fly with me.

 

[MissTaken]

I have read this thread and re read this thread until my eyes are crossed. There are so many issues that present themselves and, as usual, I have may remarks I would like to contribute.

The man who abuses, Dom or not, is reacting and feeding off a power trip. An extreme example of this behavior are rapists. It is the power and fear they crave. The power and fear builds into sexual excitement. Domestic violence, many times it is learned behavior or again, a need for complete power and fear.

Yes, Dom/mes enjoy the power they are given. It is not unusual for a Dom/me to enjoy a seemingly humiliating activity "because they can."

The difference between abuse and D/s is that the good Dom will execute his control for the benefit and pleasure of the sub as well as Him/Herself. Does that mean a sub will enjoy every task/activity/act? No. There are activities I have engaged in that did not bring me sexual pleasure, but was able to enjoy for purposes of pleasing the Dom. In pleasing Him, sharing the intimacy after the scene, hearing His voice, smooth, comforting and pleased during the scene, I found my enjoyment. Would I sever a toe for my Dom-----just to please???---NOT! But, there are many things I would do and have done.

There, too, have been activities that I was certain I could never find pleasure with and was greatly surprised at my mind and body's response.

Returning to cym's example of the panties and the restaurant. I would not be humiliated by the request, nor would I have any negative feelings. If the waiter caught sight of my handing my panties to my Dom, I would be embarrassed. My embarrassment would be comparable being caught fucking in the back seat of a 57 Chevy at the drive in. In both situations, the act would be exciting, erotic, and quite pleasurable.

However, I don't expect everyone to be excited by the restaurant scene anymore than I imagine we all enjoy exactly the same coffee, prepared the same way.

DISCLAIMER: I realize I have simply reiterated what everyone else has posted, but damn! It felt good to finally get it out of my system.

An additional remark concerning abuse: A direct form of abuse could simply be the Dom who misuses a sub when the sub is in space. I know when I am in subspace, whatever He asks He recieves.

Dom: "What is the number of your swiss bank account?"

Me: "1239637459. "

Dom: "This pleases me."

Me: "Do you want the number for the account in the Cayman Islands, as well?"

Silly scenario, but.............

 

[fallon2]

Master knows

A true Dom/Master knows 99.9% of the time what his sub needs and thus through her "degradation" or "humiliation" both can receive pleasure or what I sometimes say a "secret chill" that can run through a person's body. Many times a Master will know what his sub needs before she does. How is this possible??? Through communication and trust which is key in ANY relationship.