Definition of Obscenity

[TarnishedPenny]

This is very much a moving target right now, obviously.

I have a plot bunny involving a strip club which has been losing money. The owners have decided to remove the pole and instead install, um, let’s call them ‘screens’. Small rooms beside the main seating area would have the connecting walls removed and replaced with translucent panels. Couples would be silhouetted against those screens, backlit so to speak. Customers would be unable to see anything more than the silhouette of couples engaged in a ‘good tidmd’.

Would this constitute obscenity in a criminal sense?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Depends largely on the jurisdiction and the eye of the beholder.
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." -Justice Potter Stewart

 

[Kelliezgirl]

From a story perspective you could take it either way. If you want the obscenity angle to drive the plot it could, or you could ignore it... both would be believable.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Would this constitute obscenity in a criminal sense?

The problem with the "criminal sense" of the term "obscenity" is that it's largely subjective. I would think about where that strip club is located and then simply look up whether or not live sex shows are allowed there. For example, I remember Oregon's supreme court overturning a law prohibiting sex on stage in front of an audience because "nude dancing or other explicit sexual conduct that have an expressive component" should be protected as freedom of expression. But it's been a while since that made news.

 

[StillStunned]

The difference between a tasteful and artistic performance piece and an obscene show:

"I'll fantasise about this later when I'm making love to my partner": tasteful and artistic

"I'm going to wank over this": obscene.

 

[KeithD]

This is very much a moving target right now, obviously.

I have a plot bunny involving a strip club which has been losing money. The owners have decided to remove the pole and instead install, um, let’s call them ‘screens’. Small rooms beside the main seating area would have the connecting walls removed and replaced with translucent panels. Couples would be silhouetted against those screens, backlit so to speak. Customers would be unable to see anything more than the silhouette of couples engaged in a ‘good tidmd’.

Would this constitute obscenity in a criminal sense?

No. There would be no difference between having it done on stage and having it done off, and clubs do it on stage. The similar image I've provided in a few stories is nighttime on safari, with backlit coupling being observed outside the tent through flimsy tent walls.

 

[gunhilltrain]

No. There would be no difference between having it done on stage and having it done off, and clubs do it on stage. The similar image I've provided in a few stories is nighttime on safari, with backlit coupling being observed outside the tent through flimsy tent walls.

I have no idea if actually committing the acts in a club would make that much difference. With the rise of video, it's sort of become moot I guess. Also, there is foreign-produced content that seems to violate the 18-year-old rules. Of course, they don't say that - I'm just going by appearances. American-made content will declare that they are following the Federal statute and say that they are keeping records that can be provided as needed. I believe this is the one they are mentioning:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2251

Of course, with increasingly realistic AI-generated images, it becomes more complicated.

 

[nice90sguy]

In the spirit of the schoolboy riddles I recall from my youth, I think the definition of obscenity would be something like "eating shit from a pig's arse while pissing on your mum's face."

 

[Bamagan]

There are enough places in the world where that would be fine that all you need to do is avoid setting it in a specific location, and most readers will probably be happy to ignore any legalities involved unless you bring them up.
If you're already committed to a specific location, it becomes a question for google or whatever search engine you prefer to locate relevant statutes regarding live adult entertainment.

 

[alohadave]

Would this constitute obscenity in a criminal sense?

Are they doing this in reaction to local pressure? Because stripping on a pole is going to be more offensive/obscene to most people who'd have a problem with it. Behind a translucent screen where you can't really make out detail would tend to make those people happy, IMO (at the obvious displeasure of the customers).

I don't think hiding what customers want to see is an improvement unless you also class up the joint to attract a completely different, upscale clientele.

And if local pressure is an issue, big enough bribes will turn heads away.

 

[alohadave]

In the spirit of the schooboy riddles I recall from my youth, I think the definition of obscenity would be something like "eating shit from a pig's arse while pissing on your mum's face."

That's just a good time to some people.

 

[Bamagan]

In the spirit of the schooboy riddles I recall from my youth, I think the definition of obscenity would be something like "eating shit from a pig's arse while pissing on your mum's face."

But what category should that go in?
If it's the dad's pig, I vote for Loving Wives.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is very much a moving target right now, obviously.

I have a plot bunny involving a strip club which has been losing money. The owners have decided to remove the pole and instead install, um, let’s call them ‘screens’. Small rooms beside the main seating area would have the connecting walls removed and replaced with translucent panels. Couples would be silhouetted against those screens, backlit so to speak. Customers would be unable to see anything more than the silhouette of couples engaged in a ‘good tidmd’.

Would this constitute obscenity in a criminal sense?

As described, I wouldn't think so; but then, I don't live in America where I'm sure some folk would think so.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Not a lawyer and this mainly applies to the UK, but...

I was under the impression that 'private member club' acted as a pretty good shield. There are Swingers Clubs in the UK where what goes on goes on without even a panal. As long as there's officially a membership list (even a free one) then what goes on inside is classed as 'private'

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Not a lawyer and this mainly applies to the UK, but...

I was under the impression that 'private member club' acted as a pretty good shield. There are Swingers Clubs in the UK where what goes on goes on without even a panal. As long as there's officially a membership list (even a free one) then what goes on inside is classed as 'private'

Again in the UK, obscenity is generally relating to publications, including video. (See the Obscene Publications Act as amended). The relevant issue in this case would be "indecent exposure" and "public indecency", which boils down to 'getting your cock out' and 'sex in public' but key is that for indecent exposure, there must be intent for the exposure 'to cause alarm or distress'. So mere pissing in public isn't indecent exposure.

Outraging public decency requires that two or more people might have seen the activity, even if they didn't. The rules relaxed a fair bit with the Sexual Offences Act 2003, mostly getting rid of homophobic laws (there were many men on the Sex Offenders Register for 'gross indecency' aka gay sex in a hotel room, because hotels were deemed public places).

But members clubs can permit all sorts of things if the council (local government) don't object. Casinos and strip clubs are often member-only. So any modern Mary Whitehouses wanting to object to strip clubs opening usually focus on the parking problems that will be caused. Councils care a lot about parking!

I believe local counties in America may have their own local bonkers regulations, so the scenario seems plausible. My parents claim that in San Francisco in the 70s there were 'topless and bottomless bars' - because nudity wasn't allowed... An enterprising club providing sexy shadow puppets could gain a niche?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Thanks, all.