Defining Pornography

[CharleyH]

“… the definition of porn has always been a bit speckled. We can definitively express that erotica is literature or art that is intended to stimulate sexual excitement, but somehow porn remains beyond the realm of art or literature, which seems paradoxical since there really can’t be porn if it isn’t found in some form of art or literature. In other words, pornography is simply a word created for the sole purpose of censorship.”

This is merely a quote from an article I have recently finished, and writing the above paragraph made me think of all the countless times we have argued the differences between ‘porn’ and erotica on the AH.

While an age-old topic, I thought I might spin a new discussion: Is pornography nothing but a word giving licence to censors or is it something else?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

"I know it when I see it."

It's pretty subjective; easy to distinguish at the extremes, and increasingly difficult as you move toward the meeting place. Gynelogical closeups in Hustler are porn. This is erotica. (Credit to Sophia for discovering.)

Or is it porn? As I say - very subjective.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Pornography
1857, "description of prostitutes," from Fr. pornographie, from Gk. pornographos "(one) writing of prostitutes," from porne "prostitute," originally "bought, purchased" (with an original notion, probably of "female slave sold for prostitution;" related to pernanai "to sell," from PIE root per- "to traffic in, to sell," cf. L. pretium "price") + graphein "to write." Originally used of classical art and writing; application to modern examples began 1880s. Main modern meaning "salacious writing or pictures" represents a slight shift from the etymology, though classical depictions of prostitution usually had this quality. Pornographer is earliest form of the word, attested from 1850. Pornocracy (1860) is "the dominating influence of harlots," used specifically of the government of Rome during the first half of the 10th century by Theodora and her daughters.

 

[minsue]

What is an author? What is a post-modern poem? What is pornography?

I think we're going to have to take up a collection to get you a dictionary, m'dear....

 

[cumallday]

I must agree with Roxanne - very subjective, the gist of justice Potter's famous lines. I subscribe to the school of cultural criticism.

One of the goals of cultural criticism is to oppose culture with a capital 'C', that perspective which equates culture only with what we call 'high culture'. Or, in our case, erotica with a capital 'E'.

More importantly, cultural critics aim to discover the (often political) reasons why a certain kind of aesthetic product is more valued than others. They try to counter the prevalent notion that culture is some kind of wholeness that has already been formed. In our case, one man's erotica is another woman's pornography (I choose my terms carefully here). Is our culture patriarchal, puritanical, homophobic? And how do these social structures work to define what we consider as porn and what as erotica?

 

[CharleyH]

Pornography
1857, "description of prostitutes," from Fr. pornographie, from Gk. pornographos "(one) writing of prostitutes," from porne "prostitute," originally "bought, purchased" (with an original notion, probably of "female slave sold for prostitution;" related to pernanai "to sell," from PIE root per- "to traffic in, to sell," cf. L. pretium "price") + graphein "to write." Originally used of classical art and writing; application to modern examples began 1880s. Main modern meaning "salacious writing or pictures" represents a slight shift from the etymology, though classical depictions of prostitution usually had this quality. Pornographer is earliest form of the word, attested from 1850. Pornocracy (1860) is "the dominating influence of harlots," used specifically of the government of Rome during the first half of the 10th century by Theodora and her daughters.

Thanks to you both. As I mentioned, I wrote on article on it and I realize what porn once was in comparison to what it has become, specifically after the Victorian re-discovery of Pompeii. And to just correct this definition a bit? Pornography was once a term used to describe men who "documented" prostitution in Rome and was later used to describe the works of social scientists like Nicholas Edme Retif who published a discourse for the regulation of prostitution in his book, "Le Pornographe" (1769).

However, we are losing sight of the question: Is pornography nothing but a word that gives licence to censors or is it something else? IYO

As for the quote by Justice Stewart, RA? Wasn't he attempting to explain obscenity more than pornography?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

As for the quote by Justice Stewart, RA? Wasn't he attempting to explain obscenity more than pornography?

ah but that raises another question. Is there a difference? Isn't "pornography" inherently obscene?

Actually, I think your perception/observation is quite accurate, Charley. It is a term that simply gives license to censors.

 

[oggbashan]

Defined by social norms

My definition is:

Pornography is something sexually overt that breaks ther rules of a particular society.

What is pornographic in one country might be acceptable in another.

What is pornographic to one religion might be seen as an acceptable form of worship in another.

The definition has to be particular to one set of social conventions. I don't think there can be a worldwide or even country-wide definition that is comprehensive. Pornography is in the eye of the beholder.

Og

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Personally I think Porn is strictly a censorship term. For instance, The BBC shows full frontal nudity in England. Janet Jackson's tit caused a major furor on American television. In the early 19th century, Balzack, was concidered Porn in some states, for shit sake. Up until about 20 years ago, Oregon banned Ulysses.

Gladly, today, there has been added to the definition the idea of art. So if the story, film, vidio, photo or whatever, has no purpose other than to produce the biggest hard-on possible, it is relegated to porn.

However, if there is plot (beyond: Gena goes to the zoo and fucks the zookeeper), charaterization (Beyond: Hi, I'm Gena...let's fuck!) then it's art. It's a pretty fuzzy line, I think.

 

[Pure]

Official Definition, Us

US CODE
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > § 2256 Prev | Next

{I don't think this solves the problem, but it's an attempt at an objective definition; it does not refer to 'community standards,' but i'd argue they are lurking in the background. Note the problems involved at ** and ***}


§ 2256. Definitions for chapter


For the purposes of this chapter, the term—
(1) “minor” means any person under the age of eighteen years;
(2)

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), “sexually explicit conduct” means actual or simulated—
(i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(ii) bestiality;
(iii) masturbation;
(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

(3) “producing” means producing, directing, manufacturing, issuing, publishing, or advertising;
(4) “organization” means a person other than an individual;
(5) “visual depiction” includes undeveloped film and videotape, and data stored on computer disk or by electronic means which is capable of conversion into a visual image;
(6) “computer” has the meaning given that term in section 1030 of this title;
(7) “custody or control” includes temporary supervision over or responsibility for a minor whether legally or illegally obtained;

(8) “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—

(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

**(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
or

(C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.

(9) “identifiable minor”—
(A) means a person—
(i)
(I) who was a minor at the time the visual depiction was created, adapted, or modified; or

(II) whose image as a minor was used in creating, adapting, or modifying the visual depiction; and

(ii) who is recognizable as an actual person by the person’s face, likeness, or other distinguishing characteristic, such as a unique birthmark or other recognizable feature; and

(B) shall not be construed to require proof of the actual identity of the identifiable minor.

(10) “graphic”, when used with respect to a depiction of sexually explicit conduct, means that a viewer can observe any part of the genitals or pubic area of any depicted person or animal during any part of the time that the sexually explicit conduct is being depicted; and

(11) the term “indistinguishable” used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct.

***This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

“… pornography is simply a word created for the sole purpose of censorship.”

I think that's the most accurate assessment of what is pornography that you'll find anywhere. As has been said here, pornography is in the eye of the beholder, one person's erotica is another's erotica, "very subjective".

The irony is that by coining a word to use as an instrument of censorship, such as pornography, one puts a spotlight on the thing one wants to censor. "Oh, so that's what it is called. Great, now I know where to look."

 

[CharleyH]

I think that's the most accurate assessment of what is pornography that you'll find anywhere. As has been said here, pornography is in the eye of the beholder, one person's erotica is another's erotica, "very subjective".

The irony is that by coining a word to use as an instrument of censorship, such as pornography, one puts a spotlight on the thing one wants to censor. "Oh, so that's what it is called. Great, now I know where to look."

LOL

 

[CharleyH]

ah but that raises another question. Is there a difference? Isn't "pornography" inherently obscene?

Some would describe pornography as art without a soul and erotica as art with one (okay, me - lol). Any which way you slice it, porn must be art in some way if it is written, painted, photographed or filmed since art encompasses all those vehicles. In which case, all sexual material can be deemed art. What is pornography? Porn defines the rules and regulations by which we can make and distribute forms of erotica, nothing more.

 

[Pure]

I found the Stanford Encly. of Philosophy helpful. They proceed by successive approximations:

Here is a first, simple definition. Pornography is any material (either pictures or words) that is sexually explicit. This definition of pornography may pick out different types of material in different contexts, since what is viewed as sexually explicit can vary from culture to culture and over time.

Here is a second definition. Pornography is sexually explicit material (verbal or pictorial) that is primarily designed to produce sexual arousal in viewers.

This suggests a third definition: pornography is sexually explicit material designed to produce sexual arousal in consumers that is bad [e.g. objectionable] in a certain way. {=? sexually explicit material which is obscene}
===

If the ultimate fallback is to 'obscenity,' then that's pretty subjective in its reliance {Miller} on 'community standards.' The notion of 'prurient interest' is also problematic: if it means 'sexual' its too broad; if it means 'sexual in a depraved way', then it's rather subjective. One woman's depravity is another's bread and butter. Or should I say 'jam.' Right Lauren?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

One woman's depravity is another's bread and butter. Or should I say 'jam.' Right Lauren?

I do love jam on my bread and butter.

 

[Pure]

or, as a sage once said,

'a buttered muffin can get you in a jam.'

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Up until about 20 years ago, Oregon banned Ulysses.

Are you sure that wasn't for its self-absorbed tedium?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Are you sure that wasn't for its self-absorbed tedium?

No. It was banned as "Filth", but everyone read it anyway. It was pretty boring, actually, Roxanne

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

US CODE
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > § 2256 Prev | Next § 2256. Definitions for chapter

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), “sexually explicit conduct” means actual or simulated—
(i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(ii) bestiality;
(iii) masturbation;
(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

At first glance I thought this was a porn site's category list.

 

[rgraham666]

I don't write porn or erotica.

I write smut.

 

[CharleyH]

At first glance I thought this was a porn site's category list.

Well, under the 2257 regulations, it kind of is ...

 

[Trinique_Fire]

What is an author? What is a post-modern poem? What is pornography?

I think we're going to have to take up a collection to get you a dictionary, m'dear....

Or an encyclopaedia!!

 

[FallingToFly]

This may be really... strange, considering where we are.

I consider porn to be anything written/recorded/produced SOLELY for sexual response by the audience. Which means, to me, stroke is porn.

Erotica gets into the sex, yes, but there's a reason to the sex- it isn't a "Hi, I'm Joe, wanna fuck?" There are emotions under the skin, and erotica, to me, gets to that.

Porn gets a physical response- erotica gets an emotional one. Smut for the soul- that's my goal.

 

[CharleyH]

What is an author? What is a post-modern poem? What is pornography?

I think we're going to have to take up a collection to get you a dictionary, m'dear....

ROFLOL - Sorry I missed this brilliant post until Trinque pointed it out!

 

[gauchecritic]

I consider porn to be anything written/recorded/produced SOLELY for sexual response by the audience. Which means, to me, stroke is porn.

Erotica gets into the sex, yes, but there's a reason to the sex- it isn't a "Hi, I'm Joe, wanna fuck?" There are emotions under the skin, and erotica, to me, gets to that.

Porn gets a physical response- erotica gets an emotional one. Smut for the soul- that's my goal.

But then, as a friend of mine insists (and who am I to deny her) whatever you write, film or draw, your audience takes from it what they will. They bring themselves to your work.

Is a cartoon of Tony Blair taking it up the arse from Bush pornography or political commentary?

I may write a stroke story that contains unlimited use of imagery, iconism and themes, is that just a stroke story?

I may symbolise inner turmoil and deep rooted psychological/emotional content by use of the weather, a tawse and particular speech patterns but if you don't see any of that is it just stroke?