Death Penalty. Pro/Con

[bored1]

The state of Ohio is getting ready to put another convicted murderer to death. His name is Alton Coleman. In the early 80s he and his girlfriend went on a 3 state killing spree. He and his gf abducted, raped,tortured and murdered 8 people. A real nice couple. Now his attorneys are pleading for his life claiming that he was born with mental illness Should have been terminated the day after he was found guilty.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

oh, oh, oh can I play the bleeding heart liberal ?

 

[lavender]

 

[bored1]

Why don't you tell the good people at Lit the other circumstances behind the appeal? The plaintiff used 9 of 12 preemptory strikes to strike African American jurors. Here's the report.

Coleman’s trial tainted by race-based jury selection; execution should not proceed pending Thomas Miller-El case before U.S. Supreme Court

"April 16, 2002 – The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty today called upon Ohio Gov. Bob Taft to halt the planned April 26 execution of Alton Coleman. Coleman, who was convicted and sentenced to death for the murder of Marlene Walters, is scheduled to receive a clemency hearing today.

At the onset of Coleman’s trial, the state of Ohio used nine of its 12 peremptory challenges to strike African Americans from the jury. Coleman’s lawyer at the time of his direct appeal failed to present this constitutional violation for review.

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to consider when a death-sentenced inmate may pursue a claim of unconstitutional jury selection due to racial bias. The case under review by the high court involves Thomas Miller-El of Texas. Miller-El was convicted during an era when Dallas County prosecutors were systematically striking people of color and people of Jewish faith from juries.

“Coleman’s claim that his trial violated the Sixth Amendment right to a jury of one’s peers has never been fully considered by an appellate court,” said Steven W. Hawkins, executive director of the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty. “Executive clemency exists as a fail safe when the courts can not or will not do their job. Clemency is clearly appropriate in this case.”

One of Coleman’s current attorneys, David Stebbins, said that according to court records, the prosecutor in the case refused to give reasons explaining why he struck prospective African American jurors. “The actions of the prosecutor here and in other cases strongly suggest that the prosecutor intentionally sought to limit the African Americans on juries in Hamilton County,” Stebbins said. “The prosecutors never accounted for their conduct and it is time for them to do so.”

Hawkins added that mitigating circumstances concerning Coleman’s background and childhood offer another reason for executive clemency. He said that Coleman was exposed to group sex rituals and other abuses as a child.

“NCADP is urging its membership to contact Gov. Taft and request clemency,” Hawkins said. “The issue of racial bias during jury selection plus the mitigating circumstances surrounding Alton’s childhood render this an appropriate case for mercy.”

Gee Im sorry. Lets just let him out. Im sure hes sorry too. He deserves to die for what he did, Im curious, What was the race of his victims?

 

[Weevil]

I definitely think the death penalty should be applied to every single professional conservative.

 

[riff]

I categorically am against all forms of capital punishment for many, many reasons- the most important having to do with my own spiritual beleifs.

 

[RastaPope]

The DP is too fucking easy for most of the scumbags up for it, along with rapists and murderers NOT up for it, having been given lighter sentences by liberal motherfuckers. Let's bring torture to our prisons...give these bastards reason to fear jail.

 

[Ishmael]

Why don't you tell the good people at Lit the other circumstances behind the appeal? The plaintiff used 9 of 12 preemptory strikes to strike African American jurors. Here's the report.

Coleman’s trial tainted by race-based jury selection; ...........

The defenses argument is NOT the truth in fact. It is an argument that will be decided by a court.

The accusation of racial bias in not prima facia evidence that racial bias did indeed take place.

Pre-emptorial strikes are there for a reason and can be used by either side. The strategy of juror selection. Under pertinent questioning, or the answering of a questionaire, either side may strike a juror. That is the way it works.

Soooooooooo, while you have presented the argument for review, you have far from presented the "Facts" of the matter. Or both sides. Post the prosecutions response, then we will see both sides of the 'argument'.

After all, it's only fair.

Ishmael

 

[lavender]

 

[Ishmael]

I didn't say those were the facts. I simply said those were the grounds for the appeal and copied an article to let people know that the appeal was not totally based on mental illness.

That being said, I'm categorically opposed to the death penalty. So even if it's not the case, I say Coleman should live.

I would never presume to think that a jury of 12 human beings, who are prone to error, in a criminal justice system, rife with error has the capacity to determine whether a man lives or dies.

I was categorically for the death penalty at one time. As DNA evidence has shown so many errors lately, I'm inclined to be less fervent.

However I would still support the death penalty in cases supported by irrefutable forensic eveidence.

Ishmael

 

[Problem Child]

I definitely think the death penalty should be applied to every single professional conservative.

Even me?

I think the death penalty is barbaric and a huge waste of money.

Kill me now hockeyboy.

 

[sexy-girl]

is late here so im not fully awake (just getting a drink)

but wanted to put my name for being against death penalty


and the idea of saying only people where it is completely obvious that it was them would get the death penalty doesnt work because that means only the stupid criminals or criminals that acted on rage would get it ... rather then "smart" ones who would setup alibies and etc


but anyway im against it in principal i dont think anyone has the right to take somebodys life

 

[unclej]

can i play with you guys when i reach guru status....

 

[Liontamr]

The only reason I'm against it is because it's too easy a punishment. I'd much rather see a scumbag live with what he did behind bars with no chance for parole ever.

Would it be a strain on our tax dollars? Yeah it would, but I can't think of too many better things to spend my money on than to have them locked away for good.

 

[Problem Child]

The only reason I'm against it is because it's too easy a punishment. I'd much rather see a scumbag live with what he did behind bars with no chance for parole ever.

Would it be a strain on our tax dollars? Yeah it would, but I can't think of too many better things to spend my money on than to have them locked away for good.

I agree. Let 'em rot behind bars, no chance for parole.

The cost of the appeals in a the average death penalty case is more than the cost of feeding a convict for the average life sentence, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure one of our Lawyerettes to be can confirm or deny this for us.

 

[Ishmael]

This debate is unwinnable by either side. It's highly emotional and is not very amenable to the application of logic.

Soooooooooo, I'll make my statement and exit. I'm not going to debate the issue. This is not something that I would choose to create anymosity over.

I'm generally in favor of the death penalty. It is a 'closure' for the survivors.

Individuals do not execute the sentence, the state does after lenghty consideration, right or wrong.

I do not believe, as many might think I might, that the death penalty is a deterant to crime. Nor do I believe it to be an act of justice. It is an act of state sactioned revenge. I do understand what it is.

Ishmael

 

[lavender]

 

[sexy-girl]

i agree with it being an unwinnable debate ... people feel strongly about it on both sides for very natural human reasons ... and i can see why people are for death penalty ... im just not

 

[Azwed]

Yes you are right PC.

I have lost count of the number of times I have told someone this and then they reply with something like, "Oh it is well then they are just getting too many appeals. The whole process takes so long can't they speed it up?"

WTF we are talking about a person's life. No matter what they did it is still a life and life should be taken seriously.


Bored1
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Gee Im sorry. Lets just let him out. Im sure hes sorry too. He deserves to die for what he did, Im curious, What was the race of his victims?
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Can you be more ignorant please? Of course you don't let him out live him in jail for the rest of his life. Death penalty cases have the highest level of safeguards because you are dealing with human life. Thats the reason the appeal process takes so long and the reason that they have some special rules and other normal rules are waived.

VA has the no new evidence after 21 days rule. Which says that no new evidence, except for DNA, can be admited 21 days after a conviction. Almost every other state waives this rule for death penalty cases. VA does not because we want to speed up the process.

There is another rule we don't waive that other states waive. I forget what it is called though.

 

[Laurel]

If it can be shown without a shadow of a doubt that every single person sent to death is 100% - not 99.999%, not 99.999999% - guilty of the crime or crimes of which they are accused, then maybe I would consider the death penalty viable. If there's even the slightest chance that an innocent human being could be murdered by the state, I can't support it - any more than I'd support any murder. With incompetent and bigoted judges and lawyers and the huge gap in representation between the rich and the poor, I just don't have enough faith in our justice system to allow it to make life & death decisions.

 

[Azwed]

If it can be shown without a shadow of a doubt that every single person sent to death is 100% - not 99.999%, not 99.999999% - guilty of the crime or crimes of which they are accused, then maybe I would consider the death penalty viable. If there's even the slightest chance that an innocent human being could be murdered by the state, I can't support it - any more than I'd support any murder. With incompetent and bigoted judges and lawyers and the huge gap in representation between the rich and the poor, I just don't have enough faith in our justice system to allow it to make life & death decisions.

Will you marry me

 

[Problem Child]

We use the same legal system to execute people as the one that let O.J. Simpson go free.

Makes you think.

 

[Laurel]

Will you marry me

Absolutely!

Who do you want me to marry you to?

 

[Azwed]

Absolutely!

Who do you want me to marry you to?

Oh you think you are sooooo cute.

I will get you and you little kittie tooooo ahaauamauahfghghahhddhheeeeeeeeeeee

 

[riff]

go here

Death Penalty Information Center