Dear Angeline

[CharleyH]

or whomever else would like to tackle poetry in a beyond Abby, not quite Savage kind of way ....

Explain to me how in the world one knows the difference between an iambic word versus the triambic (if it exists) word. If I recall, it is based on the emphasis of the word ... soft/hard accents, and not merely on the fact that it contains 2 syllables alternating on whatever metre.

Also, is the first syllable soft, and then hard? How does one determine this without looking it up in the dictionary and can one, in effect, change the accent ... example

come(soft) here(hard) to(soft) me(hard)

vs.

come(hard - get your minds out of the gutter!) here(soft) to(hard) me(soft)

or is this just not possible?

 

[The_Fool]

It's how you hear it baby....

Iambic - soft then hard.

I never look it up, I just listen. Sometimes you can use poetic licence and fuck up the pronunciation, but just don't make a habit of it. The form police will say naughty things about you.

I think that Iambic is so well known since so many popular form poems use it, such as the sonnet. I am sure there are other rhythmic forms, I just don't know what they are and I'm too lazy to look them up...

My eyes are tired and I have to go to work. My life sucks.....

 

[CharleyH]

Thanks fool!

I know how things sound, but I listen with an ear for meaning, and not for accent or iamb.

You say the same thing my english teacher said, and hence why I always thought Shakespeare to be conventional, and probably why she hated me ... so iambs are so common in english language that ... or are they?

Hmf - I post and she does not come. How utterly unusual!

 

[The_Fool]

... so iambs are so common in english language that ... or are they?

The language in itself is not iambic. Multisyllable words have stressed and non stressed syllables. Sometimes the stress comes at the beginning and sometimes it comes at the end of the word. Instinctively, I feel that there are no words that have two sequentially stressed or unstressed syllables, but are in fact a chain, stressed-unstressed-stressed, etc. Single syllable words are either important or not. So the challenge comes in creating a chain of words with the iambic phrasing. That is why the writing can easily become stilted, because the sequence of the phrase can become ackward.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

One thing I learned about iambic pentameter is that it always makes more sense and it always flows better if we make it so that all the fundamental elements of the verse are stressed:

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

See what I mean? You don't even have to look at the weak syllables to understand exactly what is being said.

 

[ruminator]

As one who sadly never considers this in writing, may I ask if it's possible to achieve without working at it?

...kind of like playing music by ear without reading the notes?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

As one who sadly never considers this in writing, may I ask if it's possible to achieve without working at it?

...kind of like playing music by ear without reading the notes?

Of course it's possible. If you read your poems aloud when you write them and try to choose your words in function of how they flow, chances are you're doing it.

And you can even do it completely accidentally. Take the first sentence of this thread.

Explain to me how in the world one knows - perfect iambic pentameter.

 

[The_Fool]

As one who sadly never considers this in writing, may I ask if it's possible to achieve without working at it?

...kind of like playing music by ear without reading the notes?

In a way, it is very much like playing music by ear. It is a matter of listening to the rhythm of words and internalizing the rhythm required. That is not to say that you can get there without working at it. You have to concentrate on the rhythm and internalize it and then you have to listen to the sound of words and see how and where they fit into the pattern.

 

[CharleyH]

Of course it's possible. If you read your poems aloud when you write them and try to choose your words in function of how they flow, chances are you're doing it.

And you can even do it completely accidentally. Take the first sentence of this thread.

Explain to me how in the world one knows - perfect iambic pentameter.

Well it was an unintentional blonde moment. lol

What about triambs, then?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Well it was an unintentional blonde moment. lol

What about triambs, then?

What's that? Three iambs in a row? It's like iambic pentameter but shorter.

 

[ruminator]

If I can do it barring too much conscience thought, I will advance my work.



I want to learn the mechanics but I lose something when I try too hard.

 

[ruminator]

Well it was an unintentional blonde moment. lol

What about triambs, then?

I thought you did that deliberately,....showing off.




edited to add

I thought tryambic is the system I use.

 

[CharleyH]

What's that? Three iambs in a row? It's like iambic pentameter but shorter.

Where is Angeline? She is nice, and never sarcastic with me like you are

 

[CharleyH]

I thought you did that deliberately,....showing off.




edited to add

I thought tryambic is the system I use.

LOL - Hardly! Would I be asking if I knew?

 

[The_Fool]

Where is Angeline? She is nice, and never sarcastic with me like you are

Must be talking about someone different from the one I know.....

Never heard of triambs....

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Where is Angeline? She is nice, and never sarcastic with me like you are

Yeah, but sarcasm is much more fun and you know it.

 

[CharleyH]

Must be talking about someone different from the one I know.....

Never heard of triambs....

She is sweet like a ball full of candy floss at a fair ...like cuban cigars in your world - there ... but just beyond grasp

I thought there were triambic pentametres?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I thought there were triambic pentametres?

I never heard of triambs either. If you describe what they look like and what they were wearing the last time they were seen, we might be able to help you locate them.

 

[CharleyH]

Yeah, but sarcasm is much more fun and you know it.

:| .... speechless.

 

[ruminator]

:| .... speechless.

don't mind me...just practicing my sarcasm and you looked vulnerable,...for a second.

 

[Jennifer C]

don't mind me...just practicing my sarcasm and you looked vulnerable,...for a second.

Do you really need to practice? lol

 

[CharleyH]

I never heard of triambs either. If you describe what they look like and what they were wearing the last time they were seen, we might be able to help you locate them.

I am certain that I recall more than IAMBIC pentametres from poetry class. I may not know much, but I am certain there are triambic .... maybe not pentametres ... but triambic somethings , and I know Dear Angeline, or the Dear Wicked One will know


And you two call yourselves poets?

where is my stolen, high school poetry book

 

[Angeline]

As one who sadly never considers this in writing, may I ask if it's possible to achieve without working at it?

...kind of like playing music by ear without reading the notes?

Yes. That's the way I do it. The first time I wrote a sonnet I went back to Shakespeare and read a bunch of my favorite sonnets and listened to the rhythm of them like songs. When I wrote my own--and since then--I just kind of play that song in my head and find words that fit. If I think too much about stresses (though I know how it works), I lose the music of the writing.

And truth to tell, I don't worry about being perfect in any form--the most important thing is the words and the images they create, what they have to say. That's just better for my writing.

Thinking of writing as music has always worked for me.

 

[The_Fool]

Here is one link I found on meter:

Meter

 

[Lauren Hynde]

The dictionary doesn't know any triambs either, and even google has trouble finding any non-geek reference to them in English.