Dark Questions

[MrSteveThomas666]

Hi, I'm new here, so please excuse my newby-ness! If that is a word. My question starts. I'm a nice guy who respects all women as equals in every way. I'm polite, don't gawk, hold open doors, etc. you know, good southern manners for a guy from Indiana. However. I fantasize about taking a woman and treating her like a piece of meat. Not even worthy of a name or clothing. Her only purpose is to be an opening for my cock. No opinions, no choices, no talking, but to say "Yes Sir". I would never do these things to a woman who didn't want this, but I've never met a submissive that wasn't always "topping from the bottom". Am I searching for someone who doesn't exist?

 

[MeekMe]

Hi, I'm new here, so please excuse my newby-ness! If that is a word. My question starts. I'm a nice guy who respects all women as equals in every way. I'm polite, don't gawk, hold open doors, etc. you know, good southern manners for a guy from Indiana.

Great you've got the bare minimum of being a human down.

However. I fantasize about taking a woman and treating her like a piece of meat. Not even worthy of a name or clothing. Her only purpose is to be an opening for my cock. No opinions, no choices, no talking, but to say "Yes Sir".

So you want a blowup doll?

Submissives are people with thoughts, opinions, needs and wants. You might find a slave that can identify with this train of thought that you have, but it might be difficult finding someone compatible.

I would never do these things to a woman who didn't want this, but I've never met a submissive that wasn't always "topping from the bottom". Am I searching for someone who doesn't exist?

Topping from the bottom is just a sad excuse for you not saying, "no."

Honestly, you might be searching for someone that doesn't exist if you have an impossible to meet laundry list. Otherwise, it's all about finding someone compatible. They have to want what you want for it to happen.

 

[desertslave]

Hi, I'm new here, so please excuse my newby-ness! If that is a word. My question starts. I'm a nice guy who respects all women as equals in every way. I'm polite, don't gawk, hold open doors, etc. you know, good southern manners for a guy from Indiana. However. I fantasize about taking a woman and treating her like a piece of meat. Not even worthy of a name or clothing. Her only purpose is to be an opening for my cock. No opinions, no choices, no talking, but to say "Yes Sir". I would never do these things to a woman who didn't want this, but I've never met a submissive that wasn't always "topping from the bottom". Am I searching for someone who doesn't exist?

There are times when I've absolutely loved being treated in just this way, but definitely not for always.

 

[RawHumor]

Great you've got the bare minimum of being a human down.

So you want a blowup doll?

For someone with 1 post to his name, don't you think you might be acting a bit rough on him?

 

[MeekMe]

For someone with 1 post to his name, don't you think you might be acting a bit rough on him?

Maybe, but the post just rubbed me the wrong way. "Topping from the bottom" always says to me, "I'm not to blame at all. The sub isn't being sub enough." Meanwhile, it can't happen unless the top allows it. And it's often overused and usually to tell a sub to stop having needs and wants of their own. Which he already pretty much said by saying he wants her to just be a hole, with no opinions and always say, "yes sir."

I enjoy that kind of thing, it's pretty awesome. TPE can happen in the way he wants it, but as stated before, she also has to want that (and for a lot of people it takes time to get to that kind of trust). So while he can say every sub he's ever met has topped from the bottom, I think he just met some incompatible partners and maybe he should look at the common denominator in that situation.

Harsh? Sure, I'll be the bad guy here for all the subs that struggle to say what they want because they read somewhere that "topping from the bottom" makes them not good submissives.

 

[MrSteveThomas666]

toping from the bottom...

In my mind, its not submission. Correct me if I'm wrong. When a woman claims to be a sub, and then proceeds to say "no" and "I won't do this" and "I won't do that"... I can take it two ways... She's expressing her boundaries or she is trying to control the situation. Boundaries are meant to be pushed, or explored. No means NO. What is really a submissive?

 

[seela]

In my mind, its not submission. Correct me if I'm wrong. When a woman claims to be a sub, and then proceeds to say "no" and "I won't do this" and "I won't do that"... I can take it two ways... She's expressing her boundaries or she is trying to control the situation. Boundaries are meant to be pushed, or explored. No means NO. What is really a submissive?

Do you feel the same way about all of your own boundaries too? That they are meant to be pushed or explored?

Just because someone is a submissive, it doesn't mean they can't have boundaries. I know I have some triggers that if pushed can put me into a very bad headspace. Is it unsubmissive of me to hold on to those as boundaries, tell my D about them and save him the trouble of having to deal with the after effects? Isn't it rather me doing him a service? Not to mention that in the end it is my responsibility to take care of my own (mental and physical) healt, it's not all on him by a long shot no matter how much of a submissive I am in our relationship.

I like to be pushed and I need to be pushed. At times I need to be pushed to places and levels that I wonder if it's really healthy behavior anymore. Still, there are some things that are better left alone. So no really does mean no when it comes to those things. At least for now.

Boundaries shift and change. If you go into a relationship expecting absolutely zero boundaries and absolutely zero push back, you're going to have a very hard time finding a long term partner. If you, instead, go into a relationship expecting a little compromising and knowing that it takes time to build that trust to be comfortable to push certain boundaries, you'll likely do a whole lot better in finding a long term partner.

 

[desertslave]

Boundaries can sometimes be nudged or changed; I see them as mutable within and throughout the relationship. That is, as long as you're not confusing them with genuine limits.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[SirRay23]

In my mind, its not submission. Correct me if I'm wrong. When a woman claims to be a sub, and then proceeds to say "no" and "I won't do this" and "I won't do that"... I can take it two ways... She's expressing her boundaries or she is trying to control the situation. Boundaries are meant to be pushed, or explored. No means NO. What is really a submissive?

Setting boundaries is something every dom must do with every sub in my humble opinion. No, and I won't do's need to be respected. yes there may be some things that can be pushed. But that's why communication should be the first thing every time, before the yes sir.

let me put it this way:

say when you and your potential sub start talking she lists one of her hard limits as no bestiality. and one of her soft limits as no anal. you know that with communication and taking it slow you may get her to be more open to anal. but no amount of time will get her to be okay with fucking her dog. extreme examples, but true none the less. Having a "yes sir submissive" may sound fun in theory and after finding a compatible sub you may have many nice yes sir scenes, but having a submissive who is yes sir 24/7 is impractical. The most important part of bdsm is the trust if you ask me. and you cannot build trust without communication and respecting limits.

I do apologize for the rant and if you read nothing else read the short version: setting limits is not topping from the bottom.

 

[SpunThings]

In general I'm not really interested in my boundaries being pushed. That's not why I do BDSM, I do it because it's the only way I can get off as far as I can tell.

I enjoy the kind of play you've described, sometimes. Not all the time, and I certainly wouldn't be with someone who said I was "topping from the bottom" if I expressed issues with what he was doing/saying.

Just because your previous submissives didn't want what you wanted, doesn't make them topping from the bottom. Have you considered that you might not have given them a good reason to want to do what you wanted of them? Were you being a leader in the encounter, who inspired her to follow along enthusiastically, or were you just expecting an easy fuck?

I admit that this thread has hit a nerve with me too.

 

[CutieMouse]

In my mind, its not submission. Correct me if I'm wrong. When a woman claims to be a sub, and then proceeds to say "no" and "I won't do this" and "I won't do that"... I can take it two ways... She's expressing her boundaries or she is trying to control the situation. Boundaries are meant to be pushed, or explored. No means NO. What is really a submissive?

I'd suggest that it may not have been an issue of topping from the bottom, or a lack of submission... perhaps simple incompatibility? How long did you know these people before doing the "me Dom; you sub" thing? How invested in one another's philosophies of kink, etc were you? How much time did you spend talking, fully clothed, totally sober?

Because (in my experience), men who approach D/s from a "boundaries are there to be pushed... blahblahblah" perspective, might get a bit of kinky fuckery from me, but they won't experience [my] submission. And when they figure out kinky fuckery is not submission, they tend to throw a bit of a fit (because ZOMG, I'm not "submissive".)

On the flip side, men who approach D/s from the "one compliments the other" point of view? That just... Works. In a lot of very lovely ways. He gets to be who/what he is, I get to be who/what I am, and no one has to wonder who's leading/who's following.

 

[RawHumor]

On the flip side, men who approach D/s from the "one compliments the other" point of view? That just... Works. In a lot of very lovely ways. He gets to be who/what he is, I get to be who/what I am, and no one has to wonder who's leading/who's following.

Chemistry/dynamic energy is a big part of D/s. One woman might be completely submissive with me but a total brat to everyone else who tries to top her, just because she trusts me and feels safe with me and knows I will respect her boundaries.

 

[RawHumor]

Harsh? Sure, I'll be the bad guy here for all the subs that struggle to say what they want because they read somewhere that "topping from the bottom" makes them not good submissives.

After reading more, it seems your gut reaction may have been closer than mine was.

 

[dawn_of_night]

earn her respect

 

[MeekMe]

After reading more, it seems your gut reaction may have been closer than mine was.

I react strongly to that phrase. And in this case, I reacted very strongly. So... Yeah.

I think OP got some really great info here and a healthy perspective. It's very frustrating in the dating scene, and from what I've seen, it's sometimes a little harder when you're looking for d/s as well. Maybe with this thread things can move in a better direction with a more realistic expectation.

OP, I hope you'll stick around. Despite my harsh treatment (that's my baggage), I think it would be good. There's variety and wisdom here that you could really benefit from.