Dark night; solstice theme

[Pure]

For the Winter Solstice.

Now that we've just passed the shortest day and the solstice, here's an appropriate theme for the season (other than Christ's stripes).

This is the darkest time. It's been proposed that the aim of every serious exerter of power and/or sadist is to induce a
'dark night of the soul' in the erotic partner.

Do you agree or disagree?


The phrase, from St. John, means a time of utter despair and feeling cut off from God. It's part of a test, according to S.J. (And incidentally it's in a sense, a voluntary arrangement, since no one is forced into connection with God.) One does move past it, an utterly changed person.

Loss of hope, despair, utter self distaste if not loathing, feeling of abandonment, and so on; blackness; feeling bereft of assistance and utterly at the mercy of some Unknown One that one only feels in His absence.

Looking deeper, the human one inducing such a thing expresses his or her own dark state, and contacts it through inducing it in the other.

Does any of this make sense?

(Happy Holiday!)

 

[Netzach]

Most of the people I hang with tend towards clinical depression and existensial crises- they don't need a push towards humility and despair because it's very very close at all times. I'm like this too.

I don't find myself inducing so much as combatting or guiding them into combat during this critical time.

I do have one slave who is in the process of a divorce.

He wants to do a scene, in which all the humiliation, the whole theme of the thing is what a fucking heel he is for leaving is wife, what a midlife sorry asshole he is. Perversely, this acts to reassure him that he's not.

 

[Quint]

Good thought, excellent expression of it. One that resonates although not fully explored.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Dark night

... Looking deeper, the human one inducing such a thing expresses his or her own dark state, and contacts it through inducing it in the other.

Does any of this make sense?

Might be the pronoun use, but i think i lost you here. The sadist contacts his/her own dark state by bringing about the "dark night" in another?

If so, the sadist wishes to bring about

Loss of hope, despair, utter self distaste if not loathing, feeling of abandonment, and so on; blackness; feeling bereft of assistance and utterly at the mercy of some Unknown One that one only feels in His absence,

within the sadist?

 

[ethereal~minx]

I won't say this is the purpose of every sadist but I do believe it is the purpose of some.

...to reach that dark night in themselves, they induce it in the other. yessss totally I agree with you. *interruption~~~ I smell sex and candy here... who's that castin devious stares in my direction yeah mama this surely is a dream...i miss you[/I]*


to acknowledge or become aware of their deeepest self-judgements that plague them deeeeeep inside, they induce the deepest pain in the trusted other and in doing so achieve greater self-acceptance ...transformative with the right person==both sides grow from getting that close to themselves, that close to "God".

 

[Pure]

Angelic said,

The sadist contacts his/her own dark state by bringing about the "dark night" in another?

If so, the sadist wishes to bring about
quote:
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Pure on the masochist's dark state: Loss of hope, despair, utter self distaste if not loathing, feeling of abandonment, and so on; blackness; feeling bereft of assistance and utterly at the mercy of some Unknown One that one only feels in His absence,
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within the sadist?

I'd say, yes, the sadist "contacts" that dark state, but doesn't live in it the same way as the masochist. For one thing, the sadist brings to light despair, through bringing it about in the other.

Another way to look at it is in terms of destruction. In a given situation--as in Sri Lanka yesterday- there is a destructive force and a object of destruction (the sea side villages). What is destroyed in the masoshist is anything to cling to--the floating spar from the ship that sank. The sadist both brings about the drowning and participates vicariously in it, surely realizing, in the transit of exaltation, that Nature always reaches 'full circle.' The wielder, the incarnation of the destroying force is him- her self destroyed.

 

[Guest]

Okeee...

I am going to freely admit that I seem to be missing the point here...

Umm Does it ever occur to anyone that some of us are just happier in the dark???

http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=93915
(A bit juvenile, but close to the idea..Or as close as I could get then)

 

[luxey313]

Could the solstice also be because the sun is the furthest away from the earth today.. call me a realist

 

[Pure]

actually no, the sun, iirc, is in the vicinity of its *closest point to the earth (so it looks, actually the other way round).

 

[Pure]

Netz: He wants to do a scene, in which all the humiliation, the whole theme of the thing is what a fucking heel he is for leaving is wife, what a midlife sorry asshole he is. Perversely, this acts to reassure him that he's not.

Freud thought this to be evidence of a drive to mastery; we re- live an experience to try to get ahold of it.

 

[luxey313]

actually no, the sun, iirc, is in the vicinity of its *closest point to the earth (so it looks, actually the other way round).

:sinking back... feeling like the silly little girl she is:
I should have researched more.. thanks.

 

[Pure]

don't sink too far, luxey. please tell: should a 'master' or sadist try to bring the slave/masochist to a dark place (of soul and spirit)?



{Added: OK, to rephrase for the picky prose artists: Is it consistent with the purpose of subordination of the 'slave' to bring him/her to a dark place of soul? Does it enhance or impoverish the 'power' dimension of the proceedings?}

 

[Netzach]

Netz: He wants to do a scene, in which all the humiliation, the whole theme of the thing is what a fucking heel he is for leaving is wife, what a midlife sorry asshole he is. Perversely, this acts to reassure him that he's not.

Freud thought this to be evidence of a drive to mastery; we re- live an experience to try to get ahold of it.

Sure I'll buy that for a buck, seems to be a popular reason for SM gnashing of teeth.

 

[bridgeburner]

should a 'master' or sadist try to bring the slave/masochist to a dark place (of soul and spirit)?

No more than he should do anything else. The foundation is desire. If there's no desire to perform certain acts then why would there be any should?

-B

 

[Netzach]

BB I agree. I did my submissive masochist stint of reading St. Augustine and Kierkegaard in school.

 

[Pure]

but look what it's done for ya!

today's nonliterate dom/me thinks st augustine is a city in Florida, and Kierkegaard is a brand of condom.