Damn, KC, keep your head down

[Kev H]

Poland's bumped up the heat, and now Syria has said, "I want to play for the Russian team," which has Israel fretting about a new Cold War in the Middle East.

Russian authorities have said they're so pissed at Poland (and the US) right now that they are considering military (or nuclear) action against Poland. Of course, the US and NATO are blowing them off, calling it a pathetic thing to say.

If this gets any worse, you're going to have to either move or hide your history. But while you're there, you have any inside scoop? Just looking at this entire thing from a half-educated neutral point of view, I can't help but feel the US has been kicking Russia around in a hundred little ways; you know, straws...

You know, that whole breakup of the Cold War era seems more like a temporary break, and it was nice while it lasted.

 

[3113]

If this gets any worse, you're going to have to either move or hide your history.

I think KC has left Russia--or said he was buggering out of there. Here's hoping he's somewhere safe.

 

[DesertPirate]

I think KC has left Russia--or said he was buggering out of there. Here's hoping he's somewhere safe.

He was going to get a knee replacement in Germany Sometime soon

 

[Guest]

He was going to get a knee replacement in Germany Sometime soon

Yes.

He said it would be a couple of months, even, and he wasn't certain he'd be going back to Russia after.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This ABM system is the most ridiculous thing in the world. It's supposed to be an anti-ballistic missile "defense" system for use against rogue states like Iran and North Korea and yet we're putting it in Poland and Hungary and the Czech Republic, aimed at Russia. Is it any wonder they're nervous. Can you imagine how we'd feel with nukes in Canada and Mexico aimed at us?

We've yet to shoot down a single missile with it, but we can launch first-strike attacks with it.

The secondary use for it is to shoot down satellites and deny the use of space to anyone. Trouble is, if you start knocking out satellites, you fill orbital space with so much debris that all satellites become useless and you send communications back to where they were in the 50's. That means the entire world financial system immediately collapses as soon as you start knocking out satellites. Instant financial chaos and communications blackout.

Military control of space has been a US wet dream since the 50's, and we've repeatedly refused to sign the no-weapons-in-space treaty, forcing China to join us in an arms race in space with satellite-killing weapons -- nukes in space. They now have the capability of taking out our satellites too.

So that's your Star Wars ABM system: expensive, unworkable, useless as a defensive weapon, and threatening to every other nation on earth. And still we go ahead pretending it's something that will make us safer.

 

[gauchecritic]

This ABM system is the most ridiculous thing in the world. It's supposed to be an anti-ballistic missile "defense" system for use against rogue states like Iran and North Korea and yet we're putting it in Poland and Hungary and the Czech Republic, aimed at Russia. Is it any wonder they're nervous. Can you imagine how we'd feel with nukes in Canada and Mexico aimed at us?

We've yet to shoot down a single missile with it, but we can launch first-strike attacks with it.

The secondary use for it is to shoot down satellites and deny the use of space to anyone. Trouble is, if you start knocking out satellites, you fill orbital space with so much debris that all satellites become useless and you send communications back to where they were in the 50's. That means the entire world financial system immediately collapses as soon as you start knocking out satellites. Instant financial chaos and communications blackout.

Military control of space has been a US wet dream since the 50's, and we've repeatedly refused to sign the no-weapons-in-space treaty, forcing China to join us in an arms race in space with satellite-killing weapons -- nukes in space. They now have the capability of taking out our satellites too.

So that's your Star Wars ABM system: expensive, unworkable, useless as a defensive weapon, and threatening to every other nation on earth. And still we go ahead pretending it's something that will make us safer.

I think nukes in space (title for a new sci-fi series?) are relatively distant from the US point of view and for once I appreciate the fact of Rupert Murdock.

 

[only_more_so]

This ABM system is the most ridiculous thing in the world. It's supposed to be an anti-ballistic missile "defense" system for use against rogue states like Iran and North Korea and yet we're putting it in Poland and Hungary and the Czech Republic, aimed at Russia. Is it any wonder they're nervous. Can you imagine how we'd feel with nukes in Canada and Mexico aimed at us?

We've yet to shoot down a single missile with it, but we can launch first-strike attacks with it.

The secondary use for it is to shoot down satellites and deny the use of space to anyone. Trouble is, if you start knocking out satellites, you fill orbital space with so much debris that all satellites become useless and you send communications back to where they were in the 50's. That means the entire world financial system immediately collapses as soon as you start knocking out satellites. Instant financial chaos and communications blackout.

Military control of space has been a US wet dream since the 50's, and we've repeatedly refused to sign the no-weapons-in-space treaty, forcing China to join us in an arms race in space with satellite-killing weapons -- nukes in space. They now have the capability of taking out our satellites too.

So that's your Star Wars ABM system: expensive, unworkable, useless as a defensive weapon, and threatening to every other nation on earth. And still we go ahead pretending it's something that will make us safer.

How do ASATs enter into this conversation? Given the general nature of satellites, we can put an ASAT almost anywhere in the world and be able to shoot down LEO satellites. Heck, we can shoot down a satellite with an F-15. GEO satellites are a bit out of range right now and would be the only type of satellite that we couldn't launch straight up to hit. But given how far a GEO satellite is from Earth, curving 1/3 of the way around the planet to shoot one down wouldn't be much harder than shooting one down that was directly overhead.

As for using them offensively against Russia, we have plenty of better options, such as nuclear submarines. Besides, having a 15 minute head start on nuclear war won't help matters. We are still dealing with mutually assured destruction.

Also Russia can't be worried that the missile defense system would prevent them from nuking us. They simply have too many missiles for a missile defense shield to stop. Basically it's only good against a few missiles.

No, the problem Russia has is that the US and Poland aren't buckling under their bluster. Russia said, "No missile defense in Europe" and expected everyone else to play along.

 

[WRJames]

It's more than obvious that under the Bush administration the US has frittered away its economic and military supremacy. We could argue for a long time whether this in the fault of that administration, or just the inevitable balancing of power around the world.

It's hard to make sense of the missile defense squabble -- both sides are talking bullshit, as far as I can tell. Why the US thinks it will do a lick of good, an why Russia thinks it could pose a threat, are both beyond rational explanation. It's very reminiscent of the time just before the invasion of Iraq, when both the US and the Iraqis were totally out of touch with reality.

I worked with a couple of Russians for a few years -- in the US. One of them went back to Moscow. If things actually went sour, there would be a lot of breakage. One hopes that Putin will do a bit of chest thumping, and let it go at that. If it ever got to the point where it looked like he was taking things over the brink, you'd most likely have a lot of panic among the Russians. They want their pride back, but they also like the presperity and personal freedom they've been enjoying for the past few years.

 

[incubus666]

Point by Point

This ABM system is the most ridiculous thing in the world. It's supposed to be an anti-ballistic missile "defense" system for use against rogue states like Iran and North Korea and yet we're putting it in Poland and Hungary and the Czech Republic, aimed at Russia. Is it any wonder they're nervous. Can you imagine how we'd feel with nukes in Canada and Mexico aimed at us?

We've yet to shoot down a single missile with it, but we can launch first-strike attacks with it.

The secondary use for it is to shoot down satellites and deny the use of space to anyone. Trouble is, if you start knocking out satellites, you fill orbital space with so much debris that all satellites become useless and you send communications back to where they were in the 50's. That means the entire world financial system immediately collapses as soon as you start knocking out satellites. Instant financial chaos and communications blackout.

Military control of space has been a US wet dream since the 50's, and we've repeatedly refused to sign the no-weapons-in-space treaty, forcing China to join us in an arms race in space with satellite-killing weapons -- nukes in space. They now have the capability of taking out our satellites too.

So that's your Star Wars ABM system: expensive, unworkable, useless as a defensive weapon, and threatening to every other nation on earth. And still we go ahead pretending it's something that will make us safer.

Aimed at Russia? You aim ABM missiles at who ever is shooting you. Since there is very little info. about how the radar works I can't speak definitively about it. Assuming it is a phased array it may be able to look 360 degrees. However, since the assumed launch point is the mid east that is most likely where they will be looking. There is an ABM site in Alaske that looks at China, North Korea, and parts of Russia. The reason for putting it far from the expected launch points is the longer you can detect and track incoming missles the better fire control solution you can generate. Thus increasing the probability of a hit.

Actually we have conducted several successful intercepts. The system would not have been deployed had we not. The ABM missiles are not nuclear tipped. They are kinetic energy war heads. Thus they must make direct contact with the target to destroy it. BTW the Soviet Union ooops, Russia has at least 8 ABM systems and 2 or maybe 3 have nuclear war heads. The U.S. has 3 ABM systems. None with nuclear war heads.

To the best of my knowledge the only country to have destroyed a satellite while in orbit was China. I fail to see how or why the U.S. refusal to sign a treaty banning weapons in space forced China to shoot down a satellite.

While I agree shooting down a bunch of satellites whoul cause major problems what do you think an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel Would cause? How about How about a coordinated strike from Iran into Israel, N. Korea into Japan. China into San Francisco, and Russia into Germany. There is lots of old animosities between all of those countries. Likely no. Possible yes.

So that's your Star Wars ABM system: expensive, unworkable, useless as a defensive weapon, and threatening to every other nation on earth.

So it is unworkable, useless, and threating. Come on man those things are mutually exclusive. Kinda like throwing a teddy bear at a guy tha t has a 12 gague shotgun pointed at you.

I assume you are a Phd in English Lit. employed by that bastion of free thinking U.C. Berkley. Free thinking by your definition is anyone who agrees with you. All others will have pies thrown in their faces, Eggs hurled at them or will be shouted down by the free thinking, open to learning students at your institution of learning.

I am so tired of ignorant pukes like you blaming everything that is wrong in the world is the fault of the United States of America!

If ignorance is bliss then you are one of the the most blissful ignoramuses
on this board.

Mike S.

As an aside should the idea of a kinetic energy war head escape you feel free to ask. I'll try to keep my answers down to words of 2 syllables although I may need to use 3 on occation.

 

[rgraham666]

Um. Mike? That Doctor in his name is not an affectation. The man holds a Ph.D. In chemistry. So it's not necessary to limit your vocabulary.

And yes. There have been three successful intercepts. Over, what, twenty years of R&D. That doesn't give me high hopes for the system. I'm suspecting it may be like the M-16. A brilliant piece of work on the range, a major piece of shit in combat. It took years of fiddling to get it up to standard.

The one working ABM system that the U.S. has, The Patriot, wasn't that successful when it was used in Desert Storm. It targeted the largest piece of the SCUDs it was fired at, which is the booster rather than the warhead. They also had to fire an average of three missiles per hit. When deployed in Israel casualties went up rather than down.

Until someone creates an effective directed energy weapon ABM defense, in my opinion, is going to be a pipe dream.

 

[only_more_so]

People really need to do some fact checking before they post.

ASATs (anti-satellite) have been used three times. The US has done it twice, once in the mid-80's and again a couple of years ago to shoot down a crippled satellite. The Chinese have done it once. Russia is certainly capable. But more importantly it is a RED HERRING! It has nothing what-so-ever to do with the ADM system in Poland.

Dr. Mabeuse probably read about the 1960's Safeguard program and assumed that is what's being deployed in Poland. Safeguard would have used nuclear warheads to try to shoot down incoming missiles. Because frankly in the 60's interception within a half mile would have been a golden BB.

Current ABM's are kinetic kill vehicles. They actually hit the incoming missile. The Patriot missile which had mediocre results in desert storm, had much better performance in the most recent Gulf war, thanks to hardware and software upgrades. This is the system that we are sending to Poland.

 

[Guest]

. . .

I am so tired of ignorant pukes like you blaming everything that is wrong in the world is the fault of the United States of America!

If ignorance is bliss then you are one of the the most blissful ignoramuses
on this board.

Mike S.

As an aside should the idea of a kinetic energy war head escape you feel free to ask. I'll try to keep my answers down to words of 2 syllables although I may need to use 3 on occation.

Well done, Mikey.

Perhaps you should take some of your oh-so-brilliant post to heart.

(Oh, and the three syllable word you're searching for is - occasion.)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Okay. Educate me. An ABM system in Poland is going to shoot down a nuclear missile fired from Iran to israel? From North Korea to Japan? I really don't understand. I may be ignorant but I'm not blissful. (The plural of igoramus is ignorami, by the way, not ignoramusses.)

Here's what I know, admittedly not a lot. We've been working on this Star Wars system since Reagan's time. In that time, As Rob says, we've had like 3-4 tests which have been highly fixed to get results, and they've been semi-successful.

Meanwhile the project is a massive money pit, and 9/11 has shown how irrelevant it is towards America's security. When and if we get hit, God forbid, it won't be by a missile, but by something in a cargo-transport or diplomat's valise. Yet still this project receives top priority. Why?

The biggest nuclear threat we face today is probably Pakistan. Are nukes from Pakistan going to come over Russia?

I recently heard an interview with the former editor of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists who's written a book about America's policy on the military use of space. He says America is the only nation who refuses to sign a no-weapons-in-space treaty because we still have plans to use space as the uiltimate high-ground in the next global conflict, should it occur, and the first targets will be other satellites, which makes perfect sense. He also says the ABM project -- and I don't know if he was talking about Patriots or not, but I rather don't think so, because patriots aren't anti-ballistic are they? -- has a covert, secondary purpose as a satellite killer system, and that's well known to other countries. I suppose that any system that can knock down an incoming ballistic missile can easily knock down a satellite, which is why all these other countries are so nervous about us developing this ABM. A first strike against them by the US would be preceeded by taking out all their satellites with a pre-emptive attack.

Us working on the ABM is like seeing some crooks messing with your burglar alarm and telling you not to worry. They're just turning up the volume for you.

I also heard that Poland agreed to let us base our ABM system there in addition to Patriot missiles. They want the Patriots because, yeah, they're now afraid of some sort of reprisal from the Russians.

So the bottom line is, the ABM system is useless as a protection against ballistic missiles, but not against satellites, and so it threatens other nations because it makes it look like we're getting ready to do something bad to them.

 

[only_more_so]

Okay. Educate me.

I had a nice reply half written out when my computer decided to shut down. But to summarize... If you look up a great circle route from Iran to the US it passes directly over Poland. there are plenty of free online great circle mappers that will prove that point. Iran already has missiles that can go to Israel, we're worried about the ones that can make it to us.

I did a fair job of explaining ASAT's in my last post. To bring up the potential use of ABMs as ASATs in a discussion of putting ABMs in Poland is a straw man. That is more appropriate for a debate on having ABMs at all, and has nothing to do with where we put them if we have them.

The patriot missile is an ABM and has been tested and used effectively. It is not an anti ICBM. A ballistic missile is a missile that only has powered flight during its launch phase. From that point onward it follow oribital mechanics and aerodynamics when it re-enters the atmosphere. The V-2 used by the Germans in WWII was a ballistic missile. The scuds were ballistic missiles.

An ICBM is a longer range missile that travels considerably faster than a normal ballistic missile. They are what THAAD is designed to intercept. THAAD is the system that has only been tested 4 times. The greatest limitation of THAAD is that it has been unproven against MERVs. A MERV is when you have one ballistic missile launch and then they blossom and a dozen or more warheads separate and fall back to earth, along with a number of decoys (potentially). If we can shoot the ICBM down before it blossoms, then we can defeat the MERV. This would be done early in the missiles flight, say over Poland, and not at the end of the flight.

On the side note about ASATs, very briefly. The US has already proven ASAT technology more than 20 years ago! We used an F-15, it's not hard. We don't need to develope an ABM in order to surreptiously have an ASAT. Satellites move along very predictable paths, and we have weeks of data to know exactly where they are going to be. Think of the little ducks moving across at a carnival shooting game. A ballistic missile is like trying to shoot a meth-addicted mouse with the same gun.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Dreams of Polina

Well.... the rumors are true.... I am out of Russia......probably for good. But never say never, as they say....

And someone new to play with! Zoot, you ignor....whatever that word is!! How dare you blame everything on the US! Mike is tired of it!!

But uhhhhh... Mike? I think he is not blaming the entire US... just they guys currently running the joint....

As Zoot (that would be Doctor Zoot, to you!) was saying, we have managed to turn what could have been a pwerful ally into something approaching a cold war adversey again! Amazing! In only 8 years! Damn impressive, I would say!

As for the great missile shield..... suffice it to say it pisses the Russians off almost as much as signing up all their neighbors up to NATO.... And the
Russians know rockets..... and who they are aimed at! And Georgia knows all about NATO now too!

And now for the really bad news... I had to leave all the girls behind.....

I wanted to bring a couple to Germany with me to keep my spirits up while I go through this knee replacement...(It happened yesterday..... today, I stood on it.. The knee did not hurt at all!!! My leg hurts like hell!) But I do not think my wife would understand...

I think I will be working in Turkey in a couple of months..... Near Izmir on the Aegean coast....... but for now... Germany.

Not sure how much I will be able to stop in here.... but I appreciate the concern.

-KC

 

[rgraham666]

Good to hear from you, KC. Take care.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Okay, OMS, thanks for that. I'll wipe the foam from my mouth now and calm down.

I still find the idea of Iran launching an ICBM at the US kind of ludicrous though, and certainly not worth the risk of alienating Russia. If Iran wants to risk bringing nuclear devastation to America, there are cheaper and more efficient (and anonymous) ways they can do it. ICBM's seem kind of passe ever since 9/11. The ABM system still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyhow, our Moscow reprobate is as safe as his conscience allows, and apparently going to wallow in the flesh pots of the Orient. More and more I'm thinking that KC is living out some James Bond fantasy altogether.

Shaken, not stirred, eh, Keebler?

 

[keeblercrumb]

Dreams of Polina

Okay, OMS, thanks for that. I'll wipe the foam from my mouth now and calm down.

I still find the idea of Iran launching an ICBM at the US kind of ludicrous though, and certainly not worth the risk of alienating Russia. If Iran wants to risk bringing nuclear devastation to America, there are cheaper and more efficient (and anonymous) ways they can do it. ICBM's seem kind of passe ever since 9/11. The ABM system still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyhow, our Moscow reprobate is as safe as his conscience allows, and apparently going to wallow in the flesh pots of the Orient. More and more I'm thinking that KC is living out some James Bond fantasy altogether.

Shaken, not stirred, eh, Keebler?

No... actually either way is okay with me........ That was only for the movies....

I am taking no chances, however. I have already invited a boat load or two of Russian girls to come visit me........ From what I hear, that's kind of a coals to Newcastle thing........but hey! A guy can't be too prepared!

I must admit to a certain sexual surrealistic life I have been living.

At the moment I am too doped up to give a shit about ABM's and the like.....

But they gave me a "passport" today for when I set off the metal detectors at the airport with my new knee..... M says there is a secret compartment in it for my stash..........

Nurse is here!

-KC

 

[colddiesel]

Uninteded Consequences

Aimed at Russia? You aim ABM missiles at who ever is shooting you. Since there is very little info. about how the radar works I can't speak definitively about it. Assuming it is a phased array it may be able to look 360 degrees. However, since the assumed launch point is the mid east that is most likely where they will be looking. There is an ABM site in Alaske that looks at China, North Korea, and parts of Russia. The reason for putting it far from the expected launch points is the longer you can detect and track incoming missles the better fire control solution you can generate. Thus increasing the probability of a hit.


While I agree shooting down a bunch of satellites whoul cause major problems what do you think an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel Would cause?

If your point about location was correct the ideal launch sites would be somewhere in the contiguous USA!! However your location point is wrong . The optimum distance is the one which will allow greatest accuracy whilst requiring least energy to get to its target subject to the physical security of the site. I calculate that to be somewhere in Turkey which :-

1 Has been in NATO for years.
2 Already has NATO missile systems
3 Might enable Russia and Iran to be covered with the same resource.

These systems have been deployed in Eastern Europe to irritate Russians. They have succeeded but with unintended consequences.

With regard to your second point:-

1 Is there the slightest threat of an Iranian nuclear strike against anybody when they have neither the warhead nor the means of delivery.

2 Is there a chance of an Israeli strike against Iran. Well bless me. They've already got form on the board (in Iraq). So might they do it again? What would that do to the Arab and moslem world?

 

[amicus]

Greetings and salutations to KC, nice to see you again and to Only_Mpre_So, how refreshing to read someone taking the air out of few pompous asses on the forum who blather as usual in anti US fashion, usually without any resistance at all.

Where ever and when ever the US confronts the aggression of International Communism, be it the Formosa Straits or the Gulf of Tonkin, the rabble from the left rises to defend the slave states no matter who or where they are.

There are a lot of Hardliners left in Moscow, but fewer and fewer apprentices, like Mabeuse and company left on the forum. It is not they one need consider, just hot air, but for those who do not understand the necessity of defense against the overt threat of aggression by slave states, I think it is necessary to rebut and refute and embarrass, if possible the activists on the forum and i thank you for that.

A thought...the information released here and available elsewhere would have normally been classified not so long ago, interesting by itself, but...

Several years ago, using just the information available online, I did a piece on Airborn and Satellite Laser weapons which can easily defeat a MERV system and the multiple dummy warheads.

My point is, that if that information has been declassified, then the dream of SDI has been realized, we just don't know about it and if we did, could not speak of it.

To those of you who follow these discussions and debates, every person in the world should be appreciative towards the accuity of the US Defense Department and all agencies involved for the defensive protection they have provided the free world.

Hats off to our boys around the world that man those systems.

The pathetic Mabs around the world who continue to criticize the defense posture of the US and actively attempt to destroy the industrial base of the country with their ecological bullshit and the Ozone/global warming farce; your time is past.

You lost.

Go in peace.

Thanks again y'all, proud to be able to say that.

Amicus...

 

[incubus666]

O.K. I will admit I got a lazy in doing my research and got my ass handed to me platter. Deservedly so. I will readily admit to the spelling error pointed out by sss. I plead fatigue, old eyes, and fat fingers. I do have a spell checker but, missed the error. As to ignorami VS. ignoramuses. Here is a link
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorami Although I still may have misspelled it.

Dr. M complains about the U.S. aggravating Russia. Were the Russians to receive a report card from a kindergarten it would read something like this.

"Unable to make and keep friends. Hits other children whey they have what he wants. Steals other children's money. When sharing and he agrees to exchange one red toy for one green toy. When the exchange takes place wants two green toys in return. Should the other child not agree Russia threatens to take all the of other child's green toys. Russia is a very disruptive child. He screams, cry's and threatens others when he does not get his way. He often takes other children's assigned seat and refuses to return to his own."

1939- U.S.S.R. invades Poland along with Hitler.

1945 Declares war on Japan (In the last few days). Occupies Kuril Is. Still has not returned them

1950- U.S.S.R. walks out of Security Counsel allowing U.N. to defend S. Korea. Big mistake. They did not repeat.

1956-U.S.S.R. invades Hungary.

1966- U.S.S.R.Invades Czechoslovakia.

1979- U.S.S.R. invades Afghanistan. Gets its ass kicked.

2008- U.S.S.R.Invades Georgia. Threatens nuclear attack on Poland.

ECONOMY OF ENERGY

Russia several years ago signed contracts with foreign energy companies to explore and develop energy (gas and oil) in the Sakhalin Is. Once most of the development was completed Russia told the developers Russia would no longer honor the contracts. Russia would take a majority of the oil/gas production and would reimburse them at pennies on the dollar for the investments they had already made. Control of these assets was given to Gazprom.

Russia threatened to triple the price of gas to the Ukraine seemly because Ukraine had elected a pro west government.

There is speculation that Russia infiltrated Spetsnaz into parts of Georgia to foment unrest and cause then to react. Thus giving Russia an excuse to invade and take over part of the Caucasus an oil producer and and an area that a major oil and gas line runs through. This line supply's gas and oil to Europe. This line was attacked during the invasion of Georgia. They missed. Was it because of intent? Poor weapons selection? How about piss poor ability? One more thought, maybe just not removing the arming wires from the weapon before the launch? Scare the crap out of the Europeans without really causing a major/minor disruption.

Russia is a thug and a bully. Yot that wonderful organizational known as the EU has said almost nothing nor has the Peace keeper of the world the U.N. and N.A.T.O. done little ether. Not a single comment about condemning Russia or dropping them from the G-8 or keeping them out of the WTO which they very much want. Yeah they have cowed Europe so who is next?

Russia was defeated and humiliated by Ronald Reagen. Now they want to regain their crown and be the Russian bear that cowers the Europeans and causes America to worry.

As to Russia worrying about not having a buffer between them and NATO that was situation NATO was in for a long time. The U.S.S. R. could come blowing through say Poland with Polish forces in the front taking the causalities and when Poles took the major causalities then the main Soviet forces could blow through the main NATO lines. I don't think I would have very enthused about being a Polish soldier then. Now the situation is reverses and the Russians don't like it. TOUGH.

I know this is very disjointed but that is the way I thought about things. It is very complex and can be disjointed. Putting it into a total context is for someone with a hell of a lot more social/political understanding then I have.

Just a side note.. I have over 200 semester hours of collage credit and I still can't spell. Why? Beats the shit out of me. I am or was a prodigious reader. I have read everything from porn ( I am on this site) to books on nuclear physics. I still can't spell. I have an Associate of Arts degree, a B.S in physics, and an A.S in Nuclear Medicine Technology. Oh, I still can't spell. Usually i can tell the word is not correct but I can't figure out what to do to fix it. Because I can't spell does not make me stupid or ignorant.

So to go with the above whine I would like some Comte cheese. Damn the cheese goes so well with Cabernet Sauvginon.

So tell me about the U.S. pissing off the Russians by putting an ABM system in Poland.

Mike S.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Agreed, Russia is a thug and a bully. And they're a nuclear-armed thug and a bully who's been humiliated and disrespected over the last 20 years, and who's now feeling their oats with all this new petro-money. Furthermore, they're a thug and a bully we're going to have to deal with for the sake of our allies in Europe, who get like a third of their natural gas from them. Russia has its hand on the Valve. They can always turn it Off.

Now how do you deal with a nuclear-armed bully who's been humiliated and disrespected and is very sensitive and even paranoid about it and is now feeling its oats, flush with these new petro-dollars and dreaming of recovering some respect? Do you start putting ABM missiles in their neighboring countries and rubbing shit in their face?

I guess you agree with this administration that that's wise diplomacy. I respectfully disagree.

Poland's already a member of Nato. What more do we want? How much more can we humiliate Russia? Have Putin kiss George Bush's ass on top of the Washington Monument?

You push a bully around and he's liable to do something extreme and stupid, like go home and get a gun and come back and start shooting, and then everyone acts all shocked: "Now what made him snap like that?"