Dam Busters re-make

[Handley_Page]

There's a quite a fuss in some circles here in the UK the the film "The Dam Busters" is to be re-made, and a fair bit of discussion over who's playing whom.
Among the miscellany of odd facts is the report that Gibson's dog, (and squadron mascot), is to be re-named "Digger".
Gibson called his dog (a black Labrador) 'Nigger' (from the latin, I believe).

It is rumoured that this change is so as "not to upset American audiences", a view treated with disdain by the proponents of historical accuracy.

What, I wonder, do Lits think on the subject ?
Is it that important, or are USA audiences so ill-informed about historical matters like this ?

 

[oggbashan]

The original film was riddled with historical inaccuracies in the interest of artistic licence, particularly Barnes Wallis' relationship with the authorities.

Changing the name of a dog, that was acceptable in the 1940s and isn't now, is minor.

But will the remake be more accurate? I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if the USAAF carry out the raid.

Edited for PS. During WWII, racism against black servicemen generally had to be imported with US forces. During WWI many servicemen serving on the Western Front were 'colonials', African, Indian, Australian, New Zealanders, South Africans etc. and those UK troops who survived the slaughter appreciated all of them as worthy comrades in arms.

The English racism of WWII was against the Irish (neutrals who had fought for their independence against the British) and anyone who seemed to be of German descent. There were a number of GI marriages that mixed race, and mixed race children began to be a feature of English places near US bases. Discrimination for colour was a product of the 1950s when immigration from the Caribbean began to produce significant numbers of black faces in parts of London. Some parts of London, particularly the East End, had been integrating various nationalities for generations, French Hugenots, Dutch, Jews, and later Caribbean and Asian. How successful each integration had been? That's another question.

But Guy Gibson's name for his dog did not have abusive or derogratory overtones - then.

 

[stephen55]

It's an easy fix.

Just give Jackie Chan a role and have him go up to the dog and say, "What's up, my nigger?"

 

[TE999]

PC in the US trumps language and/or historical accuracy every time.

Joel Chandler Harris's 'Uncle Remus' stories (Brer Rabbit, et al) are no longer acceptable literature for children and Disney won't issue their live action/cartoon movie 'Song of the South' on DVD. Similar bans on 'Tom Sawyer', 'Huckleberry Finn' and 'Little Black Sambo' have been instituted as well.

A public official was once excoriated for using the word 'niggardly' in a presentation.

The list goes on and on.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The dog's name will be the least of your worries if you go into a film expecting historical accuracy.

 

[3113]

PC in the US trumps language and/or historical accuracy every time.

No. Making money does. An you can quit rolling your eyes about "PC". I'm not saying it doesn't exit or that there are some people that ridiculous about it--there are and believe me, you haven't met 'em. I have and they're awful beyond belief. But rolling one's eyes over how "PC" the U.S. is, is a bogey man it's been blown way out of proportion and it's been done so in order for bullies and racists to say, "You PC nuts are trying to control my speech!" which is to say, it's taken the place of "It's just a joke? Can't you take a joke?" by people who want to say what they want to say, rather than admit that they're being rude and nasty.

So don't pull the "PC" runs the U.S. on me. Unless you want to toss into that all the Conservatives that get mad when someone "mispronounces" Teabagging--which they used until they realized what the slang meant then blamed anyone who used it for insulting them, or unless you want to point out that Fundie Christians, who rag on PC, also get into a tizzy over Xmas saying that the "X" x-es out Christ. It seems anyone who asks people not to hurt the feelings of minorities is PC and dismissed as assholes used to dismiss women of getting hysterical over nothing, while anyone who complains about the bias against Christians and conservatives is a manly man with a real gripe. Which is to say, those upset at the "PC" side are, all too often, calling the kettle black, making their point moot.

Which is all to say, diminishing this change of the dog's name to just PC madness is making moot something that is, I think, actually valid. But I'll get to that in the next post.

 

[3113]

Is it that important, or are USA audiences so ill-informed about historical matters like this ?

Ill-informed? Are you saying that "nigger" was not, historically, the most horrible insult one person could call another in the U.S.? There was a famous incident where a ballplayer (white, this was back in the 20's) was called that from someone in the stands and he stopped the game, got into the stands and beat the living crap out of the guy. He was exonerated because everyone agreed he'd been called something unforgivable. Meanwhile, black people were casually called that and reminded of their low status and place. Like being called "shit" all the time. This word was used in this way for over a hundred years, and used as an insult and indication of being less than human until the civil rights movement marched in and demanded it go.

Of this history of the word, Americans are very well informed. Which is all to say, it doesn't matter if you put up billboards saying, "This dog was called "nigger" from the latin; it's not racist!" all over the U.S. to the point where every American knows it. Every time the squadron leader calls his dog that, it will be like setting a bit of metal to a sensitive filling for Americans.

As a storyteller trying to inform audience of this history of dam breakers during WWII, do you want your audience to focus on what the squadron leader is calling his dog, or on the story of the squadron blowing up dam? And do you want audiences mistakenly equating the squadron leader with the sort of people who aimed firehouses at black protesters?--or do you want them to get to know the real man through your film?

If this were an art house film that was going to be seen only by those who know about the subject and want the accuracy, the dog's name likely would be kept. But if those making the film want a wider audiences, then damn right they'd better make that small change to stop those audiences from fixating on something that was, in the end, insignificant. It's not about "sensitivity"--it's about which history the audience knows well and what it means to them.

 

[Verdad]

Publishing ‘clean’ editions of Mark Twain is idiotic, but this is a complete non-issue. It’s one thing to violate the integrity of a text and completely another to make decisions about what to include in a film adaptation, which is by its very nature a re-thinking and re-creation of a past original and not merely a copy.

Changes like these are made as a matter of course, and we’re not talking a type of change that reshapes the past so as to make it lend itself to the movie’s agenda. That would be a different discussion. We’re talking changes that are made as a matter of improving the story’s ‘readability’, a matter of removing non-essential details that have a potential to confuse a contemporary audience and do nothing else besides. It seems clear to me that’s the case here.

The issue is not that we find the dog’s name offensive—that is just a fact. The issue is that because we can’t help but find it offensive in the way the past audience didn’t, it draws attention to itself it wasn’t meant to draw.

It’s a bit as though the movie sought to adapt a foreign language novel, whose heroine was named Cunt, which, let’s imagine, is a perfectly innocent name in that language. Surely an English adaptation couldn’t keep the name and expect it not to undermine the entire story.

 

[Handley_Page]

Take a look at this one:-

http://wrt-intertext.syr.edu/XI/Nigger.html


" For example, black militants believe whites should never use the word nigger. On the other hand, the word nigger has been “reclaimed” by black youths particularly in the hip-hop culture. "

I knew that the N-word was regarded as a choice bit of insult, but several of the films seen over here in the last decade or three seem to indicate it's no big deal these days. Or is it one of those words that some group might use but nobody else ?

As for the re-make, when the original film was made, several important bits had to be fudged or lied about as being still "classified", a fact that may not pertain quite so much these days. Of course modern computer-generated imagery could make for a really good dam-busting scene (and the crashes, perhaps).

As long as the crews are English & colonial, we might get a good film. I surely hope so; those who died deserve a more recent salute to their bravery.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes, it's a word that some groups can use-- sort of-- and most groups cannot use.

And Verdad has a really good explanation;

The issue is not that we find the dog’s name offensive—that is just a fact. The issue is that because we can’t help but find it offensive in the way the past audience didn’t, it draws attention to itself it wasn’t meant to draw.

It’s a bit as though the movie sought to adapt a foreign language novel, whose heroine was named Cunt, which, let’s imagine, is a perfectly innocent name in that language. Surely an English adaptation couldn’t keep the name and expect it not to undermine the entire story.

I'm sure the UK public is having a lot of fun with this...

Or at least, the white part of the UK. The niggers, wogs and pakis that live amongst you might have a different opinion--if you asked them on a bad day...

In any case, my dear, its going to be about the money. That always means lowest common denominator.

 

[estragon]

No Prize For Correct Answer

In war and in the history of war, truth is the ______ casualty.

Fill in the blank space.

 

[Handley_Page]

Yes, it's a word that some groups can use-- sort of-- and most groups cannot use.

And Verdad has a really good explanation;

I'm sure the UK public is having a lot of fun with this...

Or at least, the white part of the UK. The niggers, wogs and pakis that live amongst you might have a different opinion--if you asked them on a bad day...

In any case, my dear, its going to be about the money. That always means lowest common denominator.

Some of them are, Stella.
Curiously, I have seldom heard the N-word except in very limited circumstances (while drunk and violent, for example). "Blacks' is the more commonly used word.

One hope is that the story will be historically accurate (and no bloody sex!), as to the facts of the raid and the Upkeep mine's development.
And the raid changed Barnes Wallace's outlook on weapons for the rest of his life.

 

[oggbashan]

The N-word never had the same impact in the UK as it had and has in the US.

Perhaps that is because we never had African slavery in the UK and led the campaign for abolition of slavery. However, British ships in the 17th and 18th centuries were prominent in the triangular trade - UK manufactured goods to Africa, slaves to the West Indies and the Thirteen Colonies, cotton, sugar and tobacco to the UK. England cannot be proud about the money it made from trading in slaves, but any slave landed in England was automatically free.

In the 1920s and 30s black musical troupes could and did describe themselves as "Nigger Minstrels" in the UK. That description continued into the 1950s. The Black and White Minstrel Show was on TV even in the 1960s with the men performing in blackface makeup (if they needed to). The term "Coon Band" was extinct by 1914.

The name of Guy Gibson's dog was normal AT THAT TIME. It is probably better, particularly if the film is to be shown in the US, to change the name which means something very different to US audiences.

 

[JackLuis]

Well if the dog in the movie is white, it wouldn't be accurate to call him "Nigger" unless they wanted to show a derogatory image. This is hardly likely in a bomber movie.

I hope they show the dam busting scenes as good or better than the first movie. The models used in the first movie were too small to show the power of the dam that actually burst, depriving the Germans of hydro electric power and the regulation of the river.

Maybe they'll change the name to "Flushing the Nazis Out!"

 

[shewantsmore]

If you keep changing little details then whats next,war movies are not about what really happened its to make a good story and make money.The arguements films like this cause in our house are terrible

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you keep changing little details then whats next,war movies are not about what really happened its to make a good story and make money.The arguements films like this cause in our house are terrible

well, yeah. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[3113]

The name of Guy Gibson's dog was normal AT THAT TIME. It is probably better, particularly if the film is to be shown in the US, to change the name which means something very different to US audiences.

Though historical accuracy was hardly an issue, I seem to recall the movie "Free Willy" caused a bit of a splash in the UK thanks to what Brits think of the word "Willy" as compared to how Americans think of it. While we know that connotation, we don't use it enough to make the name of that movie as laughable to us as it was to Brits.

If it undermines the central aim of the movie--meaning to get across some great and accurate historical story, then you make the sacrifice. If it undermines the whole story and ruins it, then you don't. How important is that dog's name to telling this story?

 

[TE999]

Which is all to say, diminishing this change of the dog's name to just PC madness is making moot something that is, I think, actually valid. But I'll get to that in the next post.

Playing the race and victim cards in a discussion trivializes your argument. We're talking historical accuracy here not who might be offended. Someone's always offended over something or other. Sticks and stones and all that.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

As a trained historian, I get fierce when someone wants to bowdlerize a text. I once faced down my graduate advisor over that issue and won though I was later introduced as a 'historical purist', much to my delight. In this case, though, just how important to the telling of the tale is the damned dog's real name? Come on, people, it means nothing unless you've got documentation that he flew a bomber or something and was awarded a Victoria Cross. The story of the development of the device, the courage and sacrifice of the pilots and crew, the change in Barnes Wallace's philosophy, the devastation the attacks had on the Nazi war machine--these are what is important. I hope they tell it well. And I agree, no damned sex!

 

[OLDERNWISER]

.....

 

[jayce1066]

Be happy that Pixar isn't doing the remake with Ben Affleck and Mat Damon doing the voices of two Avro Lancasters.

 

[real_first_time]

Possibly Just Rumors

Ive been hearing about the Dam Busters remake for years....I can give you the New Zealand perspective on this because peter jackson has been talking about doing that film ever since LOTR....(ive been invloved with some of the productions here)
He is fanatical about military air history...about 7 years ago he opened his own aircraft museum here at a place called Omaka (near the top of the south island)...I love going to that place...all of the props and restorations were done by people who worked on Lord of the rings (weta workship did it between film commitments) so the detail is incredible.

My point is that if Peter Jackson is in fact involved (probably after he wraps up 'the hobbit') he probably wont give a damn about fragile American sensibilities.....If the squadron called their black mascot dog 'nigger, then thats what probably what he'll call it in the film.

 

[pegfergie]

I was thinking just the other day I'd like to see the Dam Busters again. Not particularly for the bomber mission but for the Barnes Wallace scenes. Perhaps the answer to the PC problems is to just do a film about this very interesting scientist and not worry about the doggie.

 

[real_first_time]

Well...Here it is.

Well, the film is further along than i thought.

Heres a web link..
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/2383809/Takeoff-looms-for-Dambusters

Its a New Zealand film produced by Peter Jackson and directed by a fellow New Zealander ...If this surprises you..it shouldn't....alot of the blockbusters you see and believe to be american are made here in NZ (I woked with the stunt guys on Avatar for example).

No doubt it will be done with respect and accuracy..it is an English story about english events...the New Zealand point of view is alot closer to the English one than the american (hell people are hooked on 'coronation street' and 'east enders' here...which should tell you something.)

I agree with the previous post - to focus on a dog wold be to miss the point altogether.

 

[estragon]

Real, the Kiwis will do it right, and then the US version will have the dog's name dubbed in as "Trigger" or "Digger". Nothing like forgery when it comes to making money.