D/s and Depression/Anxiety

[Etoile]

Daddy was over this weekend and we had some time alone together. Unfortunately I woke up in a bad mood. I'd been having problems with panic the night before and I was still in an anxiety mode in the morning. I wanted to serve em as e asked me to, and e fucked me a bit, but then I wanted to eat something because I was hungry. E gave me permission to have some cereal, but I didn't want to go back after that. I was depressed and anxious. I went back into the bedroom to get some clothes because I didn't feel right in my robe (we have roommates, so I felt kind of naked) and Daddy asked me to stay with em. E was really nice about it, said e didn't want to fuck, e just wanted to love me...but I couldn't do it. I said I didn't have anything for em, that I was just empty. And I went back to the kitchen.

I feel like this makes me a bad sub. I don't really think that's true - Daddy has forgiven me for it, and eir opinion is the only one that really matters to me - but I worry about things like this. My main question is: How do any of you all - subs and doms alike - deal with depression and anxiety, either your own or your partner's?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can empathise Etoile. I soar to the heights of ecstasy and within five minutes can sink to the deepest despair for no apparent reason. Sometimes there is a trigger, but more often than not there is none. I don't think it makes a sub bad though that is a feeling I internalise and express over and over despite his reassurances and efforts to bring me through it. Sometimes a good flogging or pain session helps. other times it is about riding it out until the dark cloud lifts. If it were intentional we could be classed as bad but the reality is it is not something we wilfully do, nor something which can be controlled at whim. For me the suffering I feel because of it eliminates any glimmer of thought I may be doing it just to be difficult..it is a hell I quite often beg to be released from. I do think self talk helps at times, but when a more severe episode comes it does not kick in until the body is ready for it to. It is a nice fantasy to believe a Dominant can control the submissive's depression, and is in ways often hard for them to come to terms with but the reality is it is one of those things which remains outside their power to eliminate. He has introduced a series of measures he uses to help me through it, one of them being a meditation session together followed by us gently stroking each other in a soothing, not sexual sense which goes a long way to relieving the stress and pressure.

Catalina

 

[Quint]

Very close to home. As C. described, I often drop hard for no apparent reason. I completely withdraw and internalize all my guilt (never about sex, just about what I'm not doing with my life, etc.) and self-incrimination and I'm utterly impossible to be around. I feed on my own angst and it feeds on me. I often feel like a terrible submissive and mentally toy with the idea of leaving because surely T deserves someone better than me.

The only remedy I have ever found has been communication. Only when I'm able to talk about everything, no matter how petty, until I discover what it is that's REALLY bothering me, am I able to get past the depression and start being a person again. I'm also probably going to start therapy as soon as T's life gets a little saner so I can maybe learn how to communicate a little faster and skip the middle step of brooding and self-hatred. Just for variety, y'know.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... I completely withdraw and internalize all my guilt (never about sex, just about what I'm not doing with my life, etc.) and self-incrimination and I'm utterly impossible to be around. I feed on my own angst and it feeds on me ...

The only remedy I have ever found has been communication. Only when I'm able to talk about everything, no matter how petty, until I discover what it is that's REALLY bothering me, am I able to get past the depression and start being a person again.

Best of luck kwint ... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/2cool2.gif

At least you have the courage to try.

 

[ownedsubgal]

this topic hits close to home for me as well. since early childhood i've suffered from severe depression, a depression which no cocktail of meds or talk therapy has ever helped thus far. as a side effect of the depression, i have a social anxiety prob as well. this did not change when i met my Master. i have many bad days...days where all i can see is the ugly and cruel in life, where all i see between my Master and i is pain, where nothing feels good, where everything seems utterly pointless. how (or why) he has put up with it, for 4 years now, i will never know. two years ago my depression actually earned me a hospital stay...thanks to Daddy alone, i'm still living and breathing in this world. how do we do it....i suppose we just take it day by day. when i'm in a very bad place mentally and emotionally, he will not demand so much of me. there used to be a time where i would do my best to mask my pain from him, where i would pretend that all was well when it truly was not. so while inside i was literally dying, on the outside i was the picture perfect slave. sometimes my depression can actually give me the appearance of being an even better slave...because i will be extra quiet, will question nothing, will express no feeling of discontent. i will just obey. but Daddy knows me well now, and can tell the difference between me truly being in the proper headspace for a slave, and me being lost in a deep depression where i just don't care about anything. we talk about it quite often. i try not to hide my feelings from him anymore. He asks how i'm feeling, he doesn't pretend it doesn't exist. i try not to take shelter within myself so much, and go to his arms instead. it's been a long hard road for us both, but so far, we have managed to deal.

 

[rosco rathbone]

this topic hits close to home for me as well. since early childhood i've suffered from severe depression, a depression which no cocktail of meds or talk therapy has ever helped thus far. as a side effect of the depression, i have a social anxiety prob as well. this did not change when i met my Master. i have many bad days...days where all i can see is the ugly and cruel in life, where all i see between my Master and i is pain, where nothing feels good, where everything seems utterly pointless. how (or why) he has put up with it, for 4 years now, i will never know. two years ago my depression actually earned me a hospital stay...thanks to Daddy alone, i'm still living and breathing in this world. how do we do it....i suppose we just take it day by day. when i'm in a very bad place mentally and emotionally, he will not demand so much of me. there used to be a time where i would do my best to mask my pain from him, where i would pretend that all was well when it truly was not. so while inside i was literally dying, on the outside i was the picture perfect slave. sometimes my depression can actually give me the appearance of being an even better slave...because i will be extra quiet, will question nothing, will express no feeling of discontent. i will just obey. but Daddy knows me well now, and can tell the difference between me truly being in the proper headspace for a slave, and me being lost in a deep depression where i just don't care about anything. we talk about it quite often. i try not to hide my feelings from him anymore. He asks how i'm feeling, he doesn't pretend it doesn't exist. i try not to take shelter within myself so much, and go to his arms instead. it's been a long hard road for us both, but so far, we have managed to deal.

you sound like the girl version of me.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Etoile, you are not a bad sub, in fact from reading your posts I would have to say that you are a very special & probably you are a real treasure to your Daddy. It takes great strength and courage to be a sub and the Depression Monster takes that away. It is not your fault and your Daddy understands.

 

[FungiUg]

Depression is unrelated to D/s. It's part of who we are, for those of us who get depression. (Which is probably a great deal of us.)

Of course, D/s play can trigger depression, as can anything that leads to surges of endorphins and adrenaline (a day riding roller-coasters can do it for me, or too much time in crowds, invoking my claustrophobic flight response).

Think of depression in the same way you would think of someone who is diabetic. It's a similar reaction, just different chemicals.

This is where you need to be honest (as it sounds you have done, Etoile) with your partner, and let them know it's happening, and if need be, a little about why.

It's not pleasant to deal with, and to let someone down because you're "depressed". But those of us who deal with depression in our lives are well aware that when you have it, you really are incapable of giving. And submission is a gift... if you have nothing to give, then don't expect to be able to submit.

I know that when I am depressed, I generally seek solitude. Time away, time to heal, time to know that no one will be making demands of me or requiring something of me. It does pay to talk over your response to depression as well, so your partner can recognise the signs and accept it, rather than thinking you are "moody" or pissed off about something. So my lover knows that when I am quiet and uncommunicative and taking time out, that it's not anything to do with her.

"It's not you, it's me."

 

[Etoile]

I want to say thank you to all of you who have shared your experiences and feelings so far in this thread. It's not an easy thing to admit to having depression. Thanks to Catalina, Quint, osg, and Fungi for telling me how you deal with the situation. And thanks to incubus'_sub for the words of support!

It's truly a relief to hear how this happens to other people. Of course I knew it did, but I'm glad to hear others' experiences.

 

[BlueSugar]

I had a nasty two hour long arguement with the only person I know that could make my blood boil. There is so much emotion that I cannot cry, I can't eat, I can't sleep, I don't want to be touched, I want to drop out of existance for a little while, I can't make full sentences- every other word is a cuss of sorts... this person takes away ever piece of my rational mind.
We usually duke it out once a month because I'm forced to associate with this person for several reasons... but that is besides the point.

Usually when I'm depressed or have anxiety, I cool down a little, meditate, do busy work, rationalize and then talk it over with him... he listens shares some comfort and we get on with life.
((not with person mentioned above, when they cause me to lose all that is rational... I'm reduced to more then mush.. and he can't even help me.))

But this time, before I could even think about what I was saying I said " I have alot of anger and anxiety that you need to take out on me later "

... I didn't think its weird, but I was a little off guard when he repeated back what I said, and asked me if I was sure.

 

[Netzach]

Chez Netzach we are all in the antidepressant club, me and everyone I've ever played with, with the exception of G. It's a rollercoaster ride of fun at times, but basically most of us know our depression beasts well and how to know when something's coming up.

I think it's really important to let the emotions happen, without repercussion. Trying to force anything at a time like that can really be detrimental. Encouraging talking, hugging, and listening are all good though.

 

[Lancecastor]

Seems to me that the kinkiest grrls tend towards being depressive by nature...doncha think?

 

[Etoile]

Seems to me that the kinkiest grrls tend towards being depressive by nature...doncha think?

Hmm, that could be...perhaps it's a self-esteem thing or a self-worth thing or something like that? I know what I mean, but I'm having a hard time saying it.

This would only apply if you were referring to kinky sub grrls, though. If you were including kinky dom grrls being depressive, then my theory might be shot.

 

[Netzach]

All my boys are in the anti depressant club, a lot of the Dom guys I know, as well as the Dommes I know.

I think I've never met a pervert who didn't crash emotionally at some point. Which gives the lie to the fragile femsub theory and begs the question, maybe we're all really fucked up.

 

[FungiUg]

maybe we're all really fucked up.

I go with that theory. I don't think depression is linked to D/s per se, except D/s play can trigger a depressive bout. But I know stacks of people who suffer depression and who aren't in D/s -- one is a very good friend of mine, who hit 40, and he has been struggling ever since. My sisters also have it (worse than I do -- I got off lightly) and none of them are into D/s. Although one sister likes men in lingerie...

So nope, nothing to do with kink. Everything to do with our society and living arrangements though, I suspect. We live in a fast-paced high pressure world, and it's stress and pressure which (I think) contribute most toward depression.

 

[Lancecastor]

Hmm, that could be...perhaps it's a self-esteem thing or a self-worth thing or something like that? I know what I mean, but I'm having a hard time saying it.

This would only apply if you were referring to kinky sub grrls, though. If you were including kinky dom grrls being depressive, then my theory might be shot.

I suggest that the mental health professions consider perversions abnormal with good cause in terms of the median societal behavior set.

Somebody once told me of a school of thought which has as its foundation the idea of choice in feelings...ie you can choose how to feel about situations as opposed to adhering to the "norms".

There are times when people will suggest to me that I'm behaving oddly when, for example, I want to be alone. I don't know about you, but there are times when I want to be alone...and if someone else thinks that's odd, well... fuck'em.

 

[incubus'_sub]

I've never associated my depression with my kink but then I had my first battle with the Monster long before I acknowledged my submissiveness or had anything to do with B&D.

I do find it interesting that the topic has struck a chord with the people here, but I suspect that in any group of people in today's world that there would be a fair number of sufferers. The fact that we regularly talk about very intimate subjects probably means that we are able to admit to having the disorder more readily than other groups.

My depression is an entity, a black monster with big claws. He doesn't need emotional turmoil, sadness of any kind or anger to tempt him to try to escape from the cupboard I try to keep him locked in. Over many years I've learned to recognise the feeling of the claws scrabbling at the cupboard door and sometimes I am still too slow to react & he gets me again. Like Fungi, I have to retreat into myself and I make sure that those who love me know & understand what is happening. It is a simple brain chemical disturbance, nothing more, yet it reduces me to black nothingness. I have nothing to give and don't even want to be.

It is very important to be honest with your partner about this, otherwise they feel they have somehow caused it. Those who have never experienced clinical depression always feel that it's the same as unhappiness or worry, which of course it is not. They should also know that efforts to "cheer you up" or "snap you out of it" will be futile and it's best to just be supportive and protective from a bit of a distance until the attack has run it's course.

 

[catalina_francisco]

There are times when people will suggest to me that I'm behaving oddly when, for example, I want to be alone. I don't know about you, but there are times when I want to be alone...and if someone else thinks that's odd, well... fuck'em.

LOL, I think this is an admireable quality. Time alone is a necessity for me and many I know. I think it becomes an issue when someone fears being left alone for a minute and especially when they say they find it frightening because they then find themselves thinking.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

It is very important to be honest with your partner about this, otherwise they feel they have somehow caused it. Those who have never experienced clinical depression always feel that it's the same as unhappiness or worry, which of course it is not. They should also know that efforts to "cheer you up" or "snap you out of it" will be futile and it's best to just be supportive and protective from a bit of a distance until the attack has run it's course.

This is so true. So many think it is just a case of snapping out of it when that is just not a possibility when the depths are reached. I actually had a counsellor colleague try to tell me when she was discussing a client with me, that depression was just attention seeking behaviour which was best handled by telling the person just how pathetic and self absorbed they were. Needless to say, I did not refer people in her direction.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

The only shrink I've heard of who wasn't a depressive. Although maybe she was a self hating one. What else draws people to that particular brand of helping profession?

After a good round of therapy *I* even considered changing majors and helping the others with the Monster on their backs unburden a little. Glad to say I didn't pursue this line of work and moved towards other therapeutic behavior.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Could this be why so many in this lifestlye have similar problems with depression?

Serotonin Levels

Endorphins decrease serotonin levels.

"Endorphin- and serotonine-metabolism are closely related, and opioid peptides can directly inhibit serotonine release. (23) Therefore, besides sleeplessness, opioid peptides can also cause depressions. In chronically depressed people, free endorphin level is 3 fold higher (24) (because part of endorphin receptors have been destroyed)"


http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/endorphins.htm#Effects

there is alot of interesting info there that might help anyone interested in the physical reasons for clinical depression...i know from experience that sometimes knowing where it comes from is a big help...and B-12 works wonders ...for anyone into the vitamin thing.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Could this be why so many in this lifestlye have similar problems with depression?

Serotonin Levels

Endorphins decrease serotonin levels.

"Endorphin- and serotonine-metabolism are closely related, and opioid peptides can directly inhibit serotonine release. (23) Therefore, besides sleeplessness, opioid peptides can also cause depressions. In chronically depressed people, free endorphin level is 3 fold higher (24) (because part of endorphin receptors have been destroyed)"


http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/endorphins.htm#Effects

there is alot of interesting info there that might help anyone interested in the physical reasons for clinical depression...i know from experience that sometimes knowing where it comes from is a big help...and B-12 works wonders ...for anyone into the vitamin thing.

That's true, and most of the B vitamins help in some form, and to some extent iron as well. Many do not realise depression is also a side effect of other health conditions as well, so if you have a prediposition to depression plus one of these conditions, you already have 2 strikes against you in terms of decreased severity. Perhaps Etoile, that is also part of it for you as arthritis does have depression and fatigue as side effects.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

That's true, and most of the B vitamins help in some form, and to some extent iron as well. Many do not realise depression is also a side effect of other health conditions as well, so if you have a prediposition to depression plus one of these conditions, you already have 2 strikes against you in terms of decreased severity. Perhaps Etoile, that is also part of it for you as arthritus does have depression and fatigue as side effects.

Catalina

one more thing i want to say is that there are tons of vitamin therapies and dietary changes that can lessen the severity of depression. Personally i am not big on the antidepressant deal, for me it kind of makes life blank. I'm sure it works great for alot of ppl but if its not for you, ask a doctor (most gyns have midwives on staff ...they are great at the alternatives to medicine also) about other options like changing your diet and vitamins that help, its worth it to not have to feel like something is wrong with you because you suffer from depression.

 

[veebee1]

depression

I've been severely depressed off an on for 13 years to the point of needing medication....I recommend DRUGS... paxil, prozac, celexa, effexor, all of which I've been on...and its prettier in my world....all kidding aside, you may have clinical depression if the following symptoms last more than two weeks....

can't sleep
can't get enough sleep
feelings of guilt
cries easily
suicidal thoughts
no sex drive
lack of desire to do the things normally enjoy doing
and there's one more (8 in all) typical symptoms, but I can't think of it....

the only problem with some of the anti-depressants is that it kills the ability to have an orgasm...something I'm dealing with right now...pout pout

 

[Etoile]

This is so true. So many think it is just a case of snapping out of it when that is just not a possibility when the depths are reached. I actually had a counsellor colleague try to tell me when she was discussing a client with me, that depression was just attention seeking behaviour which was best handled by telling the person just how pathetic and self absorbed they were. Needless to say, I did not refer people in her direction.

Holy crap, that's really irresponsible for a professional. Did she have a license of any kind? I'd want to re-evaluate that licensure if she did!

I've been lucky that nobody close to me has ever told me to just snap out of it. Well, except myself, and of course it doesn't work when I say it either.