D&D 3rd edition.
- Thread starter Ravenloft
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Never
Come What May
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It's somewhat difficult to respond to a post with only two sentences but I'll try.
At this point, the only books out are the PH (Player's Handbook) and the DMG (Dungeon Master's Guide) and they cover the boring stuff.. The Rules.
Once again, D&D is as unwieldy as a sledgehammer: My 3rd level Ranger is walking through the woods at night and a big spooky orc jumps out of the shadows. My Ranger attacks with his trusty scimitar and dagger, what happens? It's easy, I just roll the base attack for rangers d10 add the bonus +3, then I get the weapon damages for the scimitar (1d6) and dagger (1d4), the armor class of the orc which is 10 plus the shield (+2) plus the armor (+5) plus the size modifier (-1) ..
Oops, can't forget my strength bonus (+2), or my weapon penalties (- 6 for main hand, -10 for off hand) - BUT I'm a ranger with light armor so I add 4 to the main hand and 4 to the off hand and my off hand is light so that's another 2.
Still with me? So that's if:
1d20 + 3 + 2 > 10 + 2 + 5 - 1 then I do (1d6 + (-6 + 4)) + (1d4 + (-10 + 4 + 2)) damage to the Orc.
Are we having fun yet?
We haven't even added in the fact that my character was surprised, that it was night, that the Orc was half hiding behind a group of bushes...
Sure, it's basic arithmetic, but who wants to do that much basic arithmetic while playing a game? (Unless it's money, people seem to enjoy counting the amount of money they get)
Hey, I have both the books and I'll use them somewhat but what I'm waiting for are the expansion sets or, as I call it, The Good Stuff.
At this point, the only books out are the PH (Player's Handbook) and the DMG (Dungeon Master's Guide) and they cover the boring stuff.. The Rules.
Once again, D&D is as unwieldy as a sledgehammer: My 3rd level Ranger is walking through the woods at night and a big spooky orc jumps out of the shadows. My Ranger attacks with his trusty scimitar and dagger, what happens? It's easy, I just roll the base attack for rangers d10 add the bonus +3, then I get the weapon damages for the scimitar (1d6) and dagger (1d4), the armor class of the orc which is 10 plus the shield (+2) plus the armor (+5) plus the size modifier (-1) ..
Oops, can't forget my strength bonus (+2), or my weapon penalties (- 6 for main hand, -10 for off hand) - BUT I'm a ranger with light armor so I add 4 to the main hand and 4 to the off hand and my off hand is light so that's another 2.
Still with me? So that's if:
1d20 + 3 + 2 > 10 + 2 + 5 - 1 then I do (1d6 + (-6 + 4)) + (1d4 + (-10 + 4 + 2)) damage to the Orc.
Are we having fun yet?
We haven't even added in the fact that my character was surprised, that it was night, that the Orc was half hiding behind a group of bushes...
Sure, it's basic arithmetic, but who wants to do that much basic arithmetic while playing a game? (Unless it's money, people seem to enjoy counting the amount of money they get)
Hey, I have both the books and I'll use them somewhat but what I'm waiting for are the expansion sets or, as I call it, The Good Stuff.
Why do people play book RPGs at all? I mean, why search a manual thicker than your fist for the rules and numbers when you can have it all done faster and more accurately by a computer?
ie. Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and all the other d&d based games by forgotten realms.
ie. Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and all the other d&d based games by forgotten realms.
Weird Harold
Opinionated Old Fart
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Aranian said:
I don't play either anymore, (no decent gamers in my circle at the moment,) but I prefer a real live gamesmaster that I can snivel things out of. It's impossible to argue with a computer.
Never
Come What May
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1. I can't play a lesbian in the computer game.
2. I can't play a three eyed cat in the computer game.
3. I can't do anything that deviates from the scripted plot on a computer game.
4. I can't interact with a real human being in a computer game.
5. The computer game dictates your world to you; you can't focus on one thing. You can't decide you really like one element and have it increase. There are even more rules and boundaries and no freedom of expression.
Of course, I've never Role Played 'by the book' anyway, I collect manuals, Five Rings, DC, Alternaty, V:tM, W:tA, H:tR, W:tO, Shadowdrift, Rifts: Guide to the Multiverse and, D&D. I've never played any of the games but they do help with my writing and they're all sort of.. I don't know.. neat.
2. I can't play a three eyed cat in the computer game.
3. I can't do anything that deviates from the scripted plot on a computer game.
4. I can't interact with a real human being in a computer game.
5. The computer game dictates your world to you; you can't focus on one thing. You can't decide you really like one element and have it increase. There are even more rules and boundaries and no freedom of expression.
Of course, I've never Role Played 'by the book' anyway, I collect manuals, Five Rings, DC, Alternaty, V:tM, W:tA, H:tR, W:tO, Shadowdrift, Rifts: Guide to the Multiverse and, D&D. I've never played any of the games but they do help with my writing and they're all sort of.. I don't know.. neat.
1. If the character's role isn't already defined by the plot of the game, your character can have whatever sexual preferences he or she might want.
2. Umm. Darn. Always wanted to do that too...
3. Depending on the quality of the game, you should be held in thrall just following the plot. Some games are even flexable enough to branch out depending on your actions.
4. You've never played Baldurs Gate multiplayer on mplayer? You poor deprived thing. It's a great deal cooler when each player is only in charge of one character, everyone has a different battleplan and they're all typing like mad with capslock on.
5. There is something to be said for adventuring in a world created by a mind other than your own. You encounter things you hadn't yet dreamed of.
2. Umm. Darn. Always wanted to do that too...
3. Depending on the quality of the game, you should be held in thrall just following the plot. Some games are even flexable enough to branch out depending on your actions.
4. You've never played Baldurs Gate multiplayer on mplayer? You poor deprived thing. It's a great deal cooler when each player is only in charge of one character, everyone has a different battleplan and they're all typing like mad with capslock on.
5. There is something to be said for adventuring in a world created by a mind other than your own. You encounter things you hadn't yet dreamed of.
I think that the system definitely shows promise. First off, they have needed to unify the game mechanics (if only for the sake of ease) for a while now. Roll over for one check, under for another, etc. Now they have that, although it'll take some getting used to (everything does).
I think that the feats are a really good idea. They allow alot more customization of your character than do just proficiencies and secondary skills. I know that you can do similar things through good roleplaying (i.e. character development), but now you also have different mechanical abilities. Two 1st level human fighters now can really can be completely different.
More spells for the spellcasters is a definite plus, particulaly at low levels where a wizard usually casts a spell, maybe two, and then proceeds to hide or throw his dagger for the rest of the encounter. The new item creation rules are interesting, too. I also like how they reworked the multiclassing system.
All in all, it's not inherintly better, but it is different. How it really turns out will be determined by how the groups who play use it. Personally, I like it so far.
PS- Aranian, people play tabletop RPG's for several reasons. Among those are social interaction, personal freedom and invention, the fact that it can challenge you instead of just feeding you images, etc. Plus, there's something to be said for the feel of dice in your hand as you throw them out for your attack.
PPS- Never, D&D (as you pointed out) has always been a little heavy on the calcualtions. Some players don't mind it and some actually like it. It's part of the game. Some systems are simpler, but at times, that simplicity makes you feel like you're missing something. Maybe it's just me. It all depends on how and what you like to play.
I think that the feats are a really good idea. They allow alot more customization of your character than do just proficiencies and secondary skills. I know that you can do similar things through good roleplaying (i.e. character development), but now you also have different mechanical abilities. Two 1st level human fighters now can really can be completely different.
More spells for the spellcasters is a definite plus, particulaly at low levels where a wizard usually casts a spell, maybe two, and then proceeds to hide or throw his dagger for the rest of the encounter. The new item creation rules are interesting, too. I also like how they reworked the multiclassing system.
All in all, it's not inherintly better, but it is different. How it really turns out will be determined by how the groups who play use it. Personally, I like it so far.
PS- Aranian, people play tabletop RPG's for several reasons. Among those are social interaction, personal freedom and invention, the fact that it can challenge you instead of just feeding you images, etc. Plus, there's something to be said for the feel of dice in your hand as you throw them out for your attack.
PPS- Never, D&D (as you pointed out) has always been a little heavy on the calcualtions. Some players don't mind it and some actually like it. It's part of the game. Some systems are simpler, but at times, that simplicity makes you feel like you're missing something. Maybe it's just me. It all depends on how and what you like to play.
Never
Come What May
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1. I have played many games and the only computer game that I know of where your character can be a lesbian is the Sims. Please, show me another game and I shall rush out and buy it.
2. I've done it.
3. That's not my point, I might be in thrall of the plot but at no point can I deviate from it. I cannot think of a solution that the programmers haven't thought off, I cannot say something that the programmers haven't put into the game, and what if the plot doesn't hold me in it's thrall? In a real game I can tell the DM that and if other people agree with me the plot shall change, instant feedback.
4. I've had the privilege of playing Diablo MP. The PKing was enough to drive one mad. Everyone typing in caps is not what I want from my human interaction.
5. And book games aren't that?
2. I've done it.
3. That's not my point, I might be in thrall of the plot but at no point can I deviate from it. I cannot think of a solution that the programmers haven't thought off, I cannot say something that the programmers haven't put into the game, and what if the plot doesn't hold me in it's thrall? In a real game I can tell the DM that and if other people agree with me the plot shall change, instant feedback.
4. I've had the privilege of playing Diablo MP. The PKing was enough to drive one mad. Everyone typing in caps is not what I want from my human interaction.
5. And book games aren't that?
Friendly Dragon
Noble Creature of Fantasy
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- Sep 26, 2000
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I guess you can add me to the ranks of Sourcebooks Anonomous too I've lost count of the number of them I've got lying round that I know there's no chance I'll ever use. But still I keep buying them whenever one catches my eye. I especially seem to be compelled to buy dodgy RPGs every couple of months for some reason, the last couple being Ork! (RPing a bunch of orcs) and All Flesh Must Be Eaten (zombie B-movie type genre).
As far as D&D goes, although it was my first experience of RPGs, I haven't played it probably for 15 years now. As far as my group of players are concerned, D&D has always been something to point and snigger at, because it seems so archaic and clunky, with it's levels, profession classes, armour classes etc. Obviously we may be wrong on some of that, but from what Never said it doesn't seem like things have changed too much over the years. My favourite RPG (and the bane of my bank account) would probably have to be Star Wars, for the combination of a good and easy to use system that doesn't get in the way of the fun, and of course the great setting which everyone and their wookie is already familiar with.
I've lost count of the number of them I've got lying round that I know there's no chance I'll ever use. But still I keep buying them whenever one catches my eye. I especially seem to be compelled to buy dodgy RPGs every couple of months for some reason, the last couple being Ork! (RPing a bunch of orcs) and All Flesh Must Be Eaten (zombie B-movie type genre).As far as D&D goes, although it was my first experience of RPGs, I haven't played it probably for 15 years now. As far as my group of players are concerned, D&D has always been something to point and snigger at, because it seems so archaic and clunky, with it's levels, profession classes, armour classes etc. Obviously we may be wrong on some of that, but from what Never said it doesn't seem like things have changed too much over the years. My favourite RPG (and the bane of my bank account
) would probably have to be Star Wars, for the combination of a good and easy to use system that doesn't get in the way of the fun, and of course the great setting which everyone and their wookie is already familiar with.
