Cyberpunk..

[raphy]

Blame 'dita for this - Been having a conversation about writing styles, and the subject of cyberpunk came up. She asked me what it was, since she hadn't encountered it at all before, and I, in my rambling and disorganized way, attempted to explain it to her.

Then, she suggested that I start a thread about it, and just throw it out there to see if any other cyberpunk fans could help define what it's actually about.. Or maybe expose the genre to those who haven't experienced it before..

So ... My take on cyberpunk...

Far as I'm aware.. Cyberpunk was a term coined to describe the work of a Canadian author in the late 70s early 80s called William Gibson. The extremely bad Keanu Reeves movie 'Johnny Mnemonic' was based on one of Gibson's short stories.

Ostensibly, it's a term that's usually used to describe science fiction books that are set not in the distant future, on far-away planets, but just around the corner. The tomorrows that might be, you could say.

Cyberpunk takes things that you'd find in today's world and instead of extrapolating to a factor of 1000, to put us in a shiny new future a la Star Trek, it accelerates us forward by 15 years. 20 years. An indeterminate time, but always one that 'feels' like, to a technophile at least, that it's within reach.

That gives the stories a much more gritty and much more 'real' feel than traditional sci-fi. Trad sci-fi tends to lean towards post-apocalyptic disaster/rebuild nonsense or sweeping space operas in galaxes far away.

Cyberpunk doesn't ride on those get out clauses. It sits very firmly before the apocalypse and says 'What's the world going to be like *10* years from now?'. 10 years ago. Cellphones were a toy of the rich and luxurious. Now, I see homeless people with 'em. Cyberpunk refuses to hide in ivory towers and sing of a shiny future. It says that 10 years from now, the world will be just like it is now.... We'll just have more toys to fuck each other over with.

Ultimately, it can easily be seen as a depressing outlook, although, obviously, the individual stories themselves need not be depressing.

Far as I can tell, that's what the masses think Cyberpunk is. Most people think it's The Matrix in prose form, except that Gibson got there first.

And here's the thing - For me, Cyberpunk actually isn't any of that.

For me, cyberpunk is a style. A literary technique. A specific way of writing that engenders specific sets of reactions in your reader.

All that babble that I wrote on the Whose eyes are you looking through? thread about how I switch between third person and first person all the time, how I like to try and seamlessly slide the reader in and out of the protagonist's head - That's half of what cyberpunk is to me.

The other half, that's a little harder to define. That's stylistic. The tapestry of words. I can't explain, but I know that it doesn't have to be sci-fi. Here's an example though - A flashback dream sequence I wrote - 'That writing style' applied to a non sci-fi genre - This is it within a fantasy/swords & sorcery environment:

And without wanting to, he was right back there in Mistmoore and the vampires were swarming over the balustrades to get to them. Too many, too fast, their fangs and claws and swords flashing in the candlelight. A dozen wounds bleeding, a dozen more opening up, and now the gypsies were there as well, their shapes twisting and deforming, moulding into their true form of the werewolf, overrunning them. Too many, too fast.

He was shouting at them to pull back, pull back, but there was Cuddan, always the stubborn one, his holy crusade against these undead closing his ears to all but the whisper of Karana's storms and then she was there, surrounded by them, their pale skins and white hair in stark contrast to her darkness and the rivulets of crimson blood running down her body. He saw her for a moment, then he was carried away by the bodies and all he could see in his eye was the last glimpse of her ebony hand as it reached up through the mass of bodies, and then it was gone. And so was she.

And then out of nowhere, the ranger, pulling him with preternatural strength towards the exit and he didn't want to go, but there were yet more coming out of the interior of the house, massive stone gargoyles now and the grinding echoing in his ears as they moved.

The images came at him like a clockwork picture-show, flashing surreal through his mind, unbidden and unwanted, the nightmare run through the valleys and passageways, high stone cliffs rising either side, hard and cold and unyielding.

I think the best way that I can explain it is that as a literary technique, what you're trying to do is 'carry' the reader helplessly along on the long run-on sentences, sweep them along with the story.. And then with the repetitive parts "fangs and claws and swords" you're trying to punctuate the rollercoaster, as it were.

I really don't know.

Opinions, anyone?

 

[destinie21]

Like any other genre if it's well written I'll read it. The problem on the lit would be you'd have to go into detail in the story before getting to the "good stuff". SO if you cared about votes and such it might not be the genre for you. However if you care only about having the pride of writing something really great you may want to go ahead. The description you gave was a good one though. It brought to mind that movie hackers. At the time the movie was released it seemed to be a bit futuristic w/o taking it to a Jetson like extreme. I say go for it I'll read a good story over a hot story any day.

 

[Guest]

Ok, I'll respond (though I thought you were going to blame Gauche for the thread, isn't that what we agreed?!)

I don't read any scifi and had no idea what C/P was. Raff's descriptions, and examples, were intriguing, particularly his comments about the style and technique vs. merely 'genre'. In a way it called to mind Joyce's 'stream of consciousness', but with other purpose. 'That' I don't know not having read any c/p.

I'm interested in what can be done with c/p and the addition of the erotic, hopefully Raff will show us.

The other interesting aspect of the style is what seems to be an inherent cinematic quality but with substance, not purely for special effects. I love being carried away by language so I guess I'll give it a try, or at least Raff .

I'll look for more expert commentary.

'dita

edited to add: I'm in accord w/Dest's last sentence.

 

[raphy]

Har... Well, 'dita - I actually thought you were kidding about blaming it on Gauche, since i actually had no real concrete reason to blame it on him... *smirks*

And D21 - I didn't really post asking whether I should submit cyberpunk stories to lit (not that I'm bothered about votes and suchlike). I'm well aware of why people read the stuff that's posted on lit - It's for the same reason that I read it..

I guess I started the thread for a few reasons - One, because Perdita asked me to (sorry 'dita!!), but also because she brought up an interesting point. She wasn't aware of the genre before I'd mentioned it, and I guess I was wondering two things....

a) Who else isn't aware of this literary sub-culture and does my babble go some way towards either explaining it, or at least giving you a desire to explore it further?
b) If you already know of it, and are a cyberpunk fan, how do *you* define/explain it to friends?

 

[Guest]

Oh, Raff, I never joke about Gauche .

I'm glad you posted, look forward to more responses, and reading you (at least).

'dita

 

[sailorm72003]

...
a) Who else isn't aware of this literary sub-culture and does my babble go some way towards either explaining it, or at least giving you a desire to explore it further?
b) If you already know of it, and are a cyberpunk fan, how do *you* define/explain it to friends?

I'd never heard of it before you started this thread, but your explanation was interesting.

Do you have full stories in this style? or other authors you could recommend?

Always interested in new stuff,

Sailor

 

[Guest]

Ooh, Sailor:

you're almost at AV stage. Surprise us, eh?

Perdita

 

[raphy]

I have short stories. Gimme a day or so and I'll collect 'em all together and let you lot at 'em, if you want..

As for authors .. Off the top of my head -

William Gibson: The Canadian who started it all back in 1984 with Neuromancer. The man credited with inventing the word 'Cyberspace'. You can find an online transcript of his short story (arguably one of his best) New Rose Hotel here. Classic Gibson, classic Cyberpunk, comes out of his published anthology of short stories, Burning Chrome, which is where I recommend anyone trying Gibson for the first time starts.

Bruce Sterling: Collaborated with Gibson on The Difference Engine and some other stuff, I think - He's usually the second author to crop up whenever you say the word 'Cyberpunk'..

Neal Stephenson: Wrote the very excellent SnowCrash, which somehow manages to twist Sumerian mythology, the Tower of Babel and the internet all together.

Richard Morgan: Wrote Altered Carbon and the sequel Broken Angels, which I actually enjoyed more than Gibson's latest effort - Pattern Recognition (gasp, the heresy!) .. That said, I'm not convinced Morgan is true cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk, like any other genre (and maybe even more than any other genre, because it's not just a genre, it's a specific writing style) isn't for everyone. I know people who just don't like it. They just can't get into it. They find it disjointed, too tight, too abrasive, too jerky. If you've tried it and just couldn't 'get' it .. That's cool =)

Just because I'm enthusiastic about it doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be.

To each their own.

 

[The_Fool]

The story starts with “The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.” (Gibson, Neuromancer, 1984). Gibson is credited with creating the term cyberspace as well as cyberpunk. With Neuromancer, Gibson won the Hugo, Nebula and Phillip K. Dick Awards for Science Fiction. That was also his first book.

Gibson’s world, and those that followed him is a grungy, dark decadent world revolving around technology. Space is limited, food is limited, life is back to the haves and the have-nots. Computer systems have evolved to the level where Artificial Intelligence is powerful enough to have received citizenship. The World is now controlled not by countries but by multinational companies that have their own international finance structure, have their own culture and have their own armies.

Computers are still the primary data interface. Except now, instead of just using keyboard, mouse and terminal exclusively, now the operator “jacks in.” Essentially direct neural stimulation through terminals “hardwired” into the nervous system. This is where the term Cyberspace came into being. The operator literally steps into a different world with different rules, even though his body is firmly planted in this one.

From the perspective of literature, Gibson’s protagonist is an anti-hero. He is put into a position to “save humanity,” but at least initially, he does so for very selfish reasons. Case is the protagonist in Neuromancer. “Case was twenty-four. At twenty-two, he’d been a cowboy, trained by the best, by McCoy Pauley and Bobby Quine, legends in the biz. He’d operated on an almost permanent adrenaline high, a byproduct of youth and proficiency, jacked into a custom cyberspace deck that projected his disembodied consciousness into the consensual hallucination that was the matrix. A thief, he’d worked for other, wealthier thieves, employers that provided the exotic software required to penetrate the bright walls of corporate systems, into the rich fields of data.”

Case makes the mistake of stealing from his employers. Of course he was found out. He was given a poison that took away his abilities. This sets him up for the book. In return for the return of his talents, he has to do one little thing.

The plot is classic. The language is not. The key to life is survival. The Religion of Choice is Technology. Technology is so important that it becomes another character in the story. The way to get ahead is the Hustle, the Deal. And if you lose your touch, you fall by the wayside, and no one looks back.

 

[raphy]

One thing I forgot...

Bladerunner is Cyberpunk in celluloid. Ridley Scott realized Gibson's world in high-gloss technicolor detail 2 years before Gibson released Neuromancer and 13 years before Robert Longo butchered Gibson's "Johnny Mnemonic"...

So, if you've seen Bladerunner, this is the question to ask yourself - How, as an author, can you convey that kaleidoscopic whirlwind of sights and sounds that is "The City" that seem to pummel Deckard's senses..

 

[Guest]

Raff, I enjoyed the rose hotel story, very well done. I can see the difficulty of the style but it has great metaphorical beauty and an amazingly evocative literary 'scent'. I can also understand why you'd call Blade Runner c/p after reading Gibson.

anon, 'dita

 

[raphy]

Ah, and can you see why I have such a hard time describing what makes it 'it' to others.. And why I'm convinced that it need not be restricted to just sci-fi/technology works.....

 

[Guest]

yes, and why I'd love to read it with erotica written in (well done of course). Satisfy me, Raff.

'dita

 

[raphy]

My word. Cyberpunk with Erotica. Now there's a challenge.

Actually, thinking about it - It's not as much of a stretch as I maybe originally thought. So much of cyberpunk is stream-of-conciousness and vivid imagery..

When I lived in Toronto, I had a car wreck out on highway 401. I rolled the car. When it happened I can remember thinking 'Wow, time flows both ways' .. Everything went into slow motion - My capacity for detail increased tenfold - but at the same time, everything happened so fast, it almost blurred by.

Cyberpunk's at it's best when describing moments of high stress, whether physical, emotional or mental. I reckon sex falls into that category.

Gimme a few days, 'dita. I'll get back to ya.

 

[Belegon]

I'll read that story...

raphy, give me a heads up when you post that too. Very interested in how it will turn out.

 

[oggbashan]

Was George Orwell's 1984 the first cyberpunk novel?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

My word. Cyberpunk with Erotica. Now there's a challenge.

JG Ballard's Crash, or even Super-Cannes, to some extent.

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

When I read your extract passage I became convinced I'd seen that writing style before, although I've never read any of the stories you mention.

Perhaps it's from my Iain M. Banks favourite, Against a Dark Background, which is probably not true cyberpunk, but it is a dark sci-fi thriller with an atmosphere not worlds apart from Bladerunner. I can't recommend this story highly enough.

I can't for the life of me think where else I've seen those long, rolling sentences, other than in some of my own dream sequences (I love dream sequences). Recently I've been cutting down on the length of my sentences because MS Word keeps putting green lines underneath them, but TBH I think I'm gonna switch that feature off...

I wouldn't say my recent stories are true cyberpunk, perhaps a little too futuristic, but I try to retain enough realism to keep them within the grasp of the technophile. That said I think that writing style is beautiful for writing raw sex; physical, emotional, sensual and yet without sense or emotion: as in a real climax, the narration becomes focused solely on the sensation of climax itself that the physical reality outside the body becomes blurred, or even ceases to exist at all. Let us know when you've got something, Raphy

ax

 

[ffreak]

OK, here's the comic book approach. Heavy Metal - cyber punk in sci-fi and fantasy often with stylized artwork to drive the pace and overload the senses.

kaleidoscopic whirlwind of sights and sounds

This is what I think of as the greatest contribution of c/p to the world of literature. Yes, most c/p involves technology (and I think Gibson intended this - to show technology as so pervasive in our future lives that it becomes a vehicle going too fast for us to keep-up with, even though everyone else seems to). But as a literary technique, I think he found a way to extract the observation of the train rider as they try to put into words the view out the window as the world rushes past - in seemingly real time.

In erotica I think this may be best applied to description in the momentary conscious slip that occurs during orgasm. A moment that seems like it could last for hours, yet is over before we want to leave.

-FF (wondering if we aren't all a bunch of pornographic c/p'rs)

 

[Weird Harold]

Was George Orwell's 1984 the first cyberpunk novel?

Quite possibly. It's certainly the best known precursor of Cyberpunk.

I've got 1400+ paperbcks on the bookshelf behind me and roughly 1/3 of them are Science Fiction.

I've been reading Science Fiction since the 1950's and there has always been something akin to cyberpunk available. I've never eally understood why it's been extolled as a new sub-genre of science fiction.

Science Fiction has, from the invention of computers, featured specualtion on how computers will change society -- "cyberpunk" seems to me to be just an extension of the trend and is often indistinguishable from "golden age" plots and predictions reworked to exclude things we know haven't happened as quickly as predicted.

I think the most obvious change fromclassic Science Fiction to "cyberpunk" is a blurring of the line between "good and evil." Classic Science Fiction makes a clear distinction, in most cases, by drawing on the black hat/white hat stereotypes of Hollywood Westerns. Cyberpunk deals more with shades of grey -- moralistically speaking.

I do disagree with the assertion that Cyberpunk deals more withthe near future than "main-stream" science fiction does. I've read several stories "advertised" as "cyberpunk" that deal with time frames 1,000 to 3,000 years in the future, complete with interstellar empires and a galactic version of the internet.

 

[Quasimodem]

Was George Orwell's 1984 the first cyberpunk novel?

Good Question!

Orwell had a purpose, however. His were dystopian novels, which did not come true – at least not quite yet – BECAUSE he wrote them, warning of the dangers.

Cyberpunk - as I have encountered it - is always too cynical and random. There is no single evil, there are just evil players amid the random shit that's occurring. Even, in some works, the hero can be a villain, since his villainy brings some order out of the chaos.

Take the atmosphere of 1940's film noir - or the novels they were based upon - with a unsentimentalized view of human nature. There are no heros, only people forced to heroic – if selfish – measures to survive.

Though usually not put quite this simplistically, technology is not entirely benign, not because it is evil, but because the people in charge are running it beyond their comprehension.

It helps to remember the William Gibson, in interview, confessed that he really had little technical understanding of how computer's worked (neither did the majority of his audience) but had rather worked to find a useful metaphor to describe how its operation "appeared" to users. Hence: "cyberspace."

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

These last few posts remind me of the album "Obsolete" by Fear Factory. IMHO it's one of the best albums ever made and comes with an accompanying cyberpunk-ish short story in the CD booklet. I think this is the story I was thinking of earlier...

Recommended for anyone into something 'different' with a spare $15 and an hour to kill.

ax

 

[raphy]

Okay. Wow. Lots of good responses.

Og - No, I don't think 1984 was the first cyberpunk novel - That said, I have a less-than-standard definition of cyberpunk.

FF - Totally agree, 100%. The writing *style* of cyberpunk is an attempt to overwhelm the reader with sights and sounds.

However, I think an interesting question is raised - Does the subject matter of your story define the style in which it is written?

Why don't we see Mills & Boon stories written in this way? "RomancePunk", to coin a phrase..

The Fantasy shorts that I've written in this style were termed "SteamPunk" by a friend of mine. The Wells Effect is probably the best example of this. That said, I think I cheated a little - I did nothing but swap the bright neon lights and overwhelming pervasiveness of computers for a H.G Wellsian nightmare of copper pipes, steam jets and darkly rumbling machinery. Technology for technology, as it were.

What about dectective stories? Whodunnitpunk?

Rewrite The Eagle Has Landed and call it Adventurepunk?

Because really, I think that writing cyberpunk doesn't limit your subject matter, or at least, it shouldn't - It merely dictates your writing style

 

[raphy]

Oh yeah, totally agree with Quasimodem too .. William Gibson actually never even had an email address until a few years ago. I can paraphrase one of his quotes "If I'm writing about it, I don't want to know what the reality of it is"

Pattern Recognition, his latest book, is actually set in the here-and-now. He talks about Google, and quicktime movies and things that we're all very familiar with.

And no, there are no heros in cyberpunk. The world is much too grey for that. In fact, in a large number of Gibson's stories, the protagonist isn't the driving force behind the plot. The protagonist is usually someone who gets swept up in something and is just trying, barely, to survive.

Of course, that then adds to the 'being pulled along by the current' feeling that you're trying to impart to your reader.

 

[MathGirl]

Redundantly repetitive

Originally posted by raphy The extremely bad Keanu Reeves movie 'Johnny Mnemonic' was based on one of Gibson's short stories.

Dear r,
The term "extremely bad KReeves movie" seems redundant. It's like saying, "a warm day on the surface of the sun."
Opinionatedly,
MG