WriterDom
Good to the last drop
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"Cyber collars are made of pixel dust, fantasies and illusions."
- Thread starter WriterDom
- Start date
serijules
just seri
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- Sep 19, 2002
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It's funny because in reading this, I feel the same way about "collars of consideration " and "training collars" as she does about cyber collars. (no comment on cyber collars). Oddly enough, the only place I have ever seen a collar of consideration or training collar is online. I have never met anyone in real life at all the clubs and parties I've been to and all the lifestyle folks I've met that did anything of this sort. Makes you wonder.
I've always felt you either collar someone or you don't. Why all these stages? It's like it came about because the lifestyle is trying so hard to mimic marriage by having dating and engagement stages (aka consideration and training). While the commitment level is very similar, it IS different and it bothers me that everything BDSM has to somehow be compared to a vanilla equivalent of it to be valid or understood.
It seems disrespectful to the permanence a collar represents to have a testing stage, a throwaway version. Things like this just have too much of a "game" feeling for me, and I'm not much of a fan of BDSM for fun and games, at least not where collars are involved. If you just play in the bedroom or for sexual fun, why even bring a collar into the equation?
The rest of the article is great. I just can't relate to the final stage blah blah part.
Just my opinion by the way, despite my feelings on the collars mentioned, I give them the same respect I would anyone else. If it works for you, I'm glad. I'm also entitled to my opinion and wanted to share why I don't like the concept.
Ma'am has a girl she met online years ago and collared when she was new to the lifestyle, and the relationship is still intact. While I don't believe in cyber collars, I DO believe in and respect that they have a special relationship with one another.
I've always felt you either collar someone or you don't. Why all these stages? It's like it came about because the lifestyle is trying so hard to mimic marriage by having dating and engagement stages (aka consideration and training). While the commitment level is very similar, it IS different and it bothers me that everything BDSM has to somehow be compared to a vanilla equivalent of it to be valid or understood.
It seems disrespectful to the permanence a collar represents to have a testing stage, a throwaway version. Things like this just have too much of a "game" feeling for me, and I'm not much of a fan of BDSM for fun and games, at least not where collars are involved. If you just play in the bedroom or for sexual fun, why even bring a collar into the equation?
The rest of the article is great. I just can't relate to the final stage blah blah part.
Just my opinion by the way, despite my feelings on the collars mentioned, I give them the same respect I would anyone else. If it works for you, I'm glad. I'm also entitled to my opinion and wanted to share why I don't like the concept.
Ma'am has a girl she met online years ago and collared when she was new to the lifestyle, and the relationship is still intact. While I don't believe in cyber collars, I DO believe in and respect that they have a special relationship with one another.
BiBunny
Moon Queen & Wanderer
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
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- 12,197
No comment on the cyber collars thing because I know the firestorm that kind of thing always sets off around here, and I just ain't in the mood.
The only thing that really bugs me about that article is the whole "This Is How It's Done" tone. Does that mean that just because B. only gave me one collar, and he did it in the privacy of my apartment with no great ceremony or outrageous scene afterwards that I'm any less his slave? I'm a quiet, private person in my everyday life, so I appreciated the intimacy of it. I don't think there's any one collaring formula, and I don't think that Mistress Steel necessarily does, either, but that's the way the article reads nonetheless.
The only thing that really bugs me about that article is the whole "This Is How It's Done" tone. Does that mean that just because B. only gave me one collar, and he did it in the privacy of my apartment with no great ceremony or outrageous scene afterwards that I'm any less his slave? I'm a quiet, private person in my everyday life, so I appreciated the intimacy of it. I don't think there's any one collaring formula, and I don't think that Mistress Steel necessarily does, either, but that's the way the article reads nonetheless.
serijules
just seri
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- Sep 19, 2002
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I agree Bibunny, that's another reason I didn't relate to the article. She made it sound as if you don't do it with all the pomp and circumstance, it isn't "real". To me, all the p&c just makes it feel LESS real to me. When Ma'am collared me, we didn't even announce it...it was obvious to all our friends I belonged to her long before that. Heck, it took me a few hours for the collaring to sink in.
Hrm, this is a good topic, I'm going to start a thread.
Anyhow, it's too bad as the advice later on in the article is rarely mentioned and is very important. The lack of common sense that some people have at clubs and parties amazes me sometimes.
Hrm, this is a good topic, I'm going to start a thread.
Anyhow, it's too bad as the advice later on in the article is rarely mentioned and is very important. The lack of common sense that some people have at clubs and parties amazes me sometimes.
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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BiBunny said:
LOL, well we also did it without any ceremony or sharing the experience with anyone else so I for one don't think it reflects on the realness of it. It is just another one of those things that seems to have a growing following that to be collared means a big ceremony, lots of people invited, let everyone know type event. being in the lifestyle means being public and making sure others know...which also seems it goes along with the popular response to anyone asking about the lifestyle or wanting to enter it that they should join a group, go to munches, attend workshops etc. Sheesh, I have never been to a munch, joined a group, or attended a workshop and yet I still went looking for and find myself in a 24/7 relationship with someone who has extensive RL experience and is only too happy to not attend groups, clubs, paries, munches, or workshops...we just don't feel a need to share our lifestyle with others in a social setting to feel any more real...we are real no matter where we are.
As an aside, I do know someone who was in a real life face to face relationship who had a collar of consideration. We didn't bother with one ourselves, but then we do seem to be impetuous little sods about these things.
Catalina
graceanne
iteroticalay urugay
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- Jun 22, 2004
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WriterDom said:
LOL Sure you are.
http://www-ksl-svc.stanford.edu:5915/doc/big-can-of-worms-still.jpg
SweetGigi
I am the exception
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- Apr 11, 2007
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I guess I understand how you all feel now that I reread this article. I guess since I am questioning everything in my world nowadays, I took this all a bit over the edge. I don't mean to nor did I intend to offend anyone who is in a cyber relationship or anyone that doesn't agree with what this article says. I guess I should just sit back and not talk for a while. At least til I figure out what is going on in my world.
the captians wench
sewing wench
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- Jun 16, 2005
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SweetGigi said:I guess I understand how you all feel now that I reread this article. I guess since I am questioning everything in my world nowadays, I took this all a bit over the edge. I don't mean to nor did I intend to offend anyone who is in a cyber relationship or anyone that doesn't agree with what this article says. I guess I should just sit back and not talk for a while. At least til I figure out what is going on in my world.
there's nothing wrong with agreeing with the article, if you really do.
Trajal
Contains 65% Water
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- Sep 16, 2003
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Cyber collars are a fucking joke.
May I just re-iterate what was said earlier, albeit possiby masked by a link.
Cyb0r collars are a load of tosh. Get over it. Sorry if it's painful but true D/s can only be achieved by real life submission and contact. If you've not met them in real life then you can't submit to them your wierdo fucks.
Wow that one is going to cause me a bunch of hate *flips up aft shields and shrugs*.
May I just re-iterate what was said earlier, albeit possiby masked by a link.
Cyb0r collars are a load of tosh. Get over it. Sorry if it's painful but true D/s can only be achieved by real life submission and contact. If you've not met them in real life then you can't submit to them your wierdo fucks.
Wow that one is going to cause me a bunch of hate *flips up aft shields and shrugs*.
graceanne
iteroticalay urugay
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- Jun 22, 2004
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FurryFury said:Do we have an escapee from the GB, a new troll or something else?
Hmm?
Fury
Or an alt.
but to tell the truth I think it's another person looking for a fight. Cause just like 1 and 1 equals two, the bdsm forum + a conversation on 'real' bdsm = A FIGHT!
HottieMama
Notta Domme
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- Mar 16, 2007
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i've noticed several posters with trollish behavior here in this forum recently...guess it's that time of year...
Evil_Geoff
Equal Opportunity Sadist
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- Aug 23, 2005
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I understand both sides of the equation, where serijules is coming from and WD's point of view. Personally, I tend to fall into the "stages" camp myself. And yes, I know many real time people who have used training collars and collars of consideration before moving to a permanent collar.
Then again, I know people who do contracts of service also, which is not all that common a practice. So who am I to say?
But then again, I understand that promises of forever, while perhaps made with the best of intentions are not, in fact, promises of forever, but are more promises of "for as long as I love you and can put up with what you do, and will probably go a good bit longer than that in the hopes that if things get really really awful we will somehow patch things up and make it like it is now but what the hell, if you turn out to be a complete jerk/asshole/cunt/abuser/user/bitch/fucktard you're going to get kicked to the curb anyway".
And sorry for those devoted slaves who vow they would never leave Master or Mistress for any reason, just keep in mind that THEY may decide to remove the collar at some future time. They too, are human beings and can change their minds (or decide their property can be discarded). Just because they haven't done so doesn't mean they can't.
On the flip side, just because they can "uncollar" a slave doesn't mean they ever will. It's just one possibility, however remote.
Now about cyber collars... A cyber collar means no less, and no more, than a physical collar does. A physical collar is a piece of fabric, or leather, or metal, or plastic, or some combination of all of the above. That material object means nothing by itself. It's meaning lies within the hearts of those using it. It can be a pet's way of being led around. It can be a Mistress's mark of absolute ownership, it can be a goth kid's fashion statement. The collar, by itself, is only a potential symbol.
If my slave is devoted to me, and if I am devoted to my slave, whether 24/7 face-to-face or in a long-distance relationship being conducted over the internet, does the collar offered over the internet somehow mean something less? I don't think so. Devotion is devotion, obedience is obedience. Just because I'm not physically present to grab someone's hair and pull them around by it doens't mean our feelings for one another are somehow less valid.
If I send them a collar to wear, now that the cyber collar has been replaced by a "real" physical collar, does that somehow magically confer some stamp of reality to the feelings associated with it? I don't think so. The feelings are there or they are not, regardless of distance, proximity, physical representation or not. How many collared slaves have a physical collar? How many were told "You're mine! You know it, I know it, damnall to the rest!" and never received a "collar"? I can't say.
But I know several slaves who have no collar, no physical object that says "I am owned" but they know it and anyone who knows them knows it. It's not the object that makes one collared. It is the heart and mind. And those can be owned from afar. Over the internet. You and I may not understand it but the phenomena happens anyway. Who understands matters of the heart?
Certainly not I. So I'll allow the cyber couple in the LDR to have their collar. If it makes them happy, fulfills them, indicates their promises to one another, who am I to tell them that their feelings are false, invalid, just pretend feelings?
Then again, I know people who do contracts of service also, which is not all that common a practice. So who am I to say?
But then again, I understand that promises of forever, while perhaps made with the best of intentions are not, in fact, promises of forever, but are more promises of "for as long as I love you and can put up with what you do, and will probably go a good bit longer than that in the hopes that if things get really really awful we will somehow patch things up and make it like it is now but what the hell, if you turn out to be a complete jerk/asshole/cunt/abuser/user/bitch/fucktard you're going to get kicked to the curb anyway".
And sorry for those devoted slaves who vow they would never leave Master or Mistress for any reason, just keep in mind that THEY may decide to remove the collar at some future time. They too, are human beings and can change their minds (or decide their property can be discarded). Just because they haven't done so doesn't mean they can't.
On the flip side, just because they can "uncollar" a slave doesn't mean they ever will. It's just one possibility, however remote.
Now about cyber collars... A cyber collar means no less, and no more, than a physical collar does. A physical collar is a piece of fabric, or leather, or metal, or plastic, or some combination of all of the above. That material object means nothing by itself. It's meaning lies within the hearts of those using it. It can be a pet's way of being led around. It can be a Mistress's mark of absolute ownership, it can be a goth kid's fashion statement. The collar, by itself, is only a potential symbol.
If my slave is devoted to me, and if I am devoted to my slave, whether 24/7 face-to-face or in a long-distance relationship being conducted over the internet, does the collar offered over the internet somehow mean something less? I don't think so. Devotion is devotion, obedience is obedience. Just because I'm not physically present to grab someone's hair and pull them around by it doens't mean our feelings for one another are somehow less valid.
If I send them a collar to wear, now that the cyber collar has been replaced by a "real" physical collar, does that somehow magically confer some stamp of reality to the feelings associated with it? I don't think so. The feelings are there or they are not, regardless of distance, proximity, physical representation or not. How many collared slaves have a physical collar? How many were told "You're mine! You know it, I know it, damnall to the rest!" and never received a "collar"? I can't say.
But I know several slaves who have no collar, no physical object that says "I am owned" but they know it and anyone who knows them knows it. It's not the object that makes one collared. It is the heart and mind. And those can be owned from afar. Over the internet. You and I may not understand it but the phenomena happens anyway. Who understands matters of the heart?
Certainly not I. So I'll allow the cyber couple in the LDR to have their collar. If it makes them happy, fulfills them, indicates their promises to one another, who am I to tell them that their feelings are false, invalid, just pretend feelings?
WriterDom
Good to the last drop
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I'm a phase kind of guy myself. Not out of any desire to do things "right." It just clicked with me.
We wouldn't need mile long checklists if everyone was the same.
And if people want a cyber relationship, then more power to them. It's not taking anything away from me. Live and let live.
We wouldn't need mile long checklists if everyone was the same.
And if people want a cyber relationship, then more power to them. It's not taking anything away from me. Live and let live.
serijules
just seri
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- Sep 19, 2002
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Evil_Geoff said:
I agree with much of what you say Geoff, but the thing is....the couple in the LDR is not cyber. The two are extremely different.
The feelings are often no different regardless of if the relationship is in person, cyber, or long distance. I don't think most of us say the feelings involved in cyber are "invalid" or fake. However, the REALITY of real life versus cyber is very different in my opinion. Different is not always bad either. But I draw a line at claiming it is the same as being in someone's arms, feeling their touch and loving them despite the things you are not exposed to online...such as bad breath, bad manners, overly loud laughs, hairy nostrils, whathaveyou.
I speak from experience too...I've felt very deeply, trusting, loving, submissive...to two of my past partners. Our real life meetings went well at first, but eventually there were things about each other that simply did not work out, things that we never considered or had to deal with online. We could have happily gone on for years oblivious to these issues had we never met!
Meeting is important. Long distance is not cyber. That's my take on the matter.
