"Curious World" and vegetarianism...

BustyTheClown

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Okay, so a couple days ago, I was watching "Curious World" on the Travel Channel. Normally I love that show, seeing all the crazy shit people do all around the world -- including in the US. However, the episode that I saw on Friday should have come with a fucking warning or something, because it was gut-wrenching enough to throw me head-first back into vegetarianism...

The section of the show I'm talking about is when they showed a common dish in a Hong Kong restaurant -- namely, snake soup. That's not so strange, I thought. People eat rattlesnake where I come from (Arizona)... But part of the recipe is to skin the snakes alive. That's disturbing in and of itself, but I could have survived the show on what they said. Then, to my utter shock and horror, they cut to a shot of a woman skinning a snake alive (I was surprised at the lack of blood), and then a sinkful of the poor things, writhing around like a basin of giant baby pink noodles, undoubtedly in an immense amount of pain... Jesus, I'm getting teary-eyed just thinking about it. :(

I can't imagine what possesses people to commit that kind of cruelty against any other living creature -- human or animal. After I saw that, I realized that I could not simply dismiss the practice of skinning snakes alive for soup as some strange foreign practice, while still unabashedly eating the animals we hang by their feet, stun (which doesn't always work), slit their throats, bleed to death (we hope), and ultimately slaughter. In my mind, I can't rightfully say that one practice is any different from the other.

Thankfully, seeing that episode of "Curious World" gave me the reason I needed in order to go back to vegetarianism -- I had to quit about two years ago because I got sick from "malnutrition," I guess is what you'd call it. I've been struggling with eating meat for the time that I wasn't vegetarian, but I'm quadruply committed to it this time -- I've bought lots of fruits and green vegetables, pasta, cereal, bread, juice, milk, eggs, cheese, etc., to eat, as well as some multi-vitamins to make up for whatever else I'm missing from not eating meat.

I guess what I want to know is, is there anything else I should do to look out for my health? I'd greatly appreciate any tips -- or just reactions to the show, or whatever, lol.
 
beans and rice or some of other source of complex carbs....
 
Ahh, my Campbell's Fiesta soup (with beans AND rice! I'm so proud) will do for that, I hope. Thanks!
 
As a vegitarian of over 10 years, I reccomend focusing on getting your water soluable vitamins in a pill and your calcium. Those, such as riboflavin, are the ones like your 'B vitamin complexes' have. Watch out for those things that contain gelatin. They are not vegitarian.

Also, When you throw out the iron that you get from red meat, you need to focus on that too. Often, what is called 'malnutrition' is simply an iron deficiency. The wonderful thing is....

1 glass of O.J. coupled with a bowl of raisin bran will give you all of the iron you need in a day. It is imperative that you couple your iron intake with Vitamin C, no matter how you get it, as the absorbic acid helps make the ferrous sulfate absorbable. Otherwise, the iron will pass right through you. This is examplified by those who take iron suppliments and end up getting constipated, and then when they poop it is really black. This is because little or no iron is being absorbed. If you take a pill for iron, wait twenty minutes and then drink a glass of oj or take vitamine C pills at the same time you take the iron.

Eat minimal amounts of soy, but don't fear it. The pro estrogens in soy are being discovered to cause excessive amounts of hormonal imbalances in those who consume a lot of soy. This is a bummer, because obtaining the essential amino acids are getting harder and harder. There is a product on the market called "Bragg's Liquid Aminos". It tastes just like soy sauce, but it is a nutritionists dream come true. I even reccomend it to meat eaters. I use it when I cook my pet's food, and the pets love the added flavor it gives their meat. It can be used as a salad dressing by adding a bit of herbs, mustard, honey and orange juice to create a soy/honey-mustard dressing.... and the ideas from there are really endless.

Other than that...... eat a lot of veggies and fruit, cereals, pastas, rice and breads, beans of all kinds, and most of all, eat them as raw as possible. I understand the desires we have to eat our food cooked, but cooking destroys cell tissue (that which we derive our nutrition from), and it is best to eat your veggies raw or steamed.

Good luck, and it is cool that you are climbing back on the wagon.
:D
 
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unclej said:
beans and rice or some of other source of complex carbs....

That makes me wonder... If you throw beans as well as rice at a wedding, and the birds eat it... do they fart and THEN explode? HAHAHAHAhahahaha I crack myself up far more than I should...

Thank you for the advice Starfish. :D I'm impressed and intimidated by your knowledge, lol, and will keep an eye out for the things you mentioned (like Braggs Liquid Aminos). I'm a poor college student, so it might not all be accessible to me, but I'll try my damndest. And honestly, I smiled when I saw you had posted, because I knew you'd be helpful. :>
 
While on vacation a few weeks ago, we walked into a "bar/eatery", and found out that it was actually a vegetarian place. As someone who'd never been to such a place, I ordered a "cheese burger". "You can't even tell you aren't eating real meat", the waitress told me.

Well, she was right, with all the crap they put on the soy, like lettuce, tomato, and mustard, it was near impossible to tell what I was really eating.

I won't be eating there anymore, if I ever find the place again. But I must say that I couldn't actually become a vegetarian. My system just couldn't handle the change, I'm afraid.

Lo
 
:eek: I was sure that there might be something that I could help with. I know what it is like to be a poor college student too. I've been struggling through school forever. :D

I hope that you find ease in getting what you need.

A cheap way to get some of what you need is in Cream of Wheat. That stuff is good, but gets old, so just spread it out with other stuff.

I believe that as long as you eat a variety of things, that you'll get what you need.
I'll be thinking of you over the next few weeks as you adjust to the changes you are making. It is tough, especially when you have cravings for something that is meat, but now there are so many things out there made to help with those cravings... 'Chick' Patties... 'Burger' Crumbles (these rule, because you can season them with taco seasoning and they taste so good), and other crap.

Good luck.
 
I don't like a whole lot of the soy shit out there either, lobito. The only change I went through (and this is probably where I made my mistake) was just leaving out the meat in the dishes I normally ate. There really isn't that much change if you already eat all the stuff you're supposed to -- you just have to fight the cravings for meat (if you even have them, which I rarely ever did) and add some vitamins and whatnot...
 
lobito said:


I won't be eating there anymore, if I ever find the place again. But I must say that I couldn't actually become a vegetarian. My system just couldn't handle the change, I'm afraid.

Lo


You clearly must mean that your 'mind' couldn't handle the change. Your body is actually physically more similar to an herbivore than a carnivore. The fact that you are an ominvore is out of human 'addiction' to meat, not evolutionary physical need.

It's okay though, this is a common misconception.
I am not just picking on you Lo. ;)


However, I don't care what anyone but another biologist has to say about what they think about this matter.

.... the human body is not designed to digest and deal with meat and this is provable by comparing the digestive track of a human to that of other omnivores. We are designed to be herbavores, but because we evolved in climates that we were not designed to be in, just out of self will, then we opted to take on meat eating for lack of the proper foods availablity.

Many meat eaters don't realize that if you go without any meat for only three months, you will loose all of the enzymes needed to digest the meat. This alone is a clear indication that it is not something our bodies are geared for. But what is most upsetting, is that meat eaters don't realize that the fact that are digestive tracts are three times longer than a carnivore, enables meat to actually rot inside you before you eliminate it thus causing toxicity within them.

I know a huge amount of people who were once meat eaters and are now vegitarian, and most, if not all of them said they couldn't believe how much more energy they have now.

Meat, even in moderation, is toxic to the human system.
 
Not often, but I still do have cravings for a big juicy hamburger, or a thin ribeye steak, or a chuck roast. But to be honest, I ate more fish on my trip, than meat. I also ate a lot of beans and rices with and without Veggies in it.

I think that eating the way I did on my trip, only contributed to me wanting to eat MORE meat when I got back home though.
 
If meat is so toxic to humans that we should stop eating it altogether for the sake of saving our bodies the trouble of digesting meat, then why don't we die from eating it? I mean, there don't even seem to be any major problems from eating meat that people suffer because meat is rotting in their system, or whatever. If people weren't made to eat meat of any kind, we wouldn't be eating it. I find arguments like the one Starfish posted to be mildly interesting, but ultimately ineffective. You can support anything with the right quotes from the right articles.
 
Another thing the Chinese do...

I've had it at lunar New Year's feasts...

Wrap a fish's head in ice with a towel, clean and cook it. Serve with fish gasping for air and looking about...

Amazing sight.
 
fishie, it's really amazing what the human body isn't intended to digest. dairy, for example, is extremely hard on the human body and really isn't the healthy drink it's made out to be. i won't argue with you about meat, it's not any better. if you look at the diet of microbiotics you can see what the body is equipped to handle, mostly fruits, grains and veggies.
 
That's a really mixed-up message, Starfish. You tell us eating meat isn't natural, yet you recommend pills and supplements.

Humans evolved the ability to digest meat and dairy. It is what allowed them to survive in less hospitable lands, and become the dominant species of Earth. Several other species are now dependent on human husbandry. Without meat-eating people, most meat-bearing species would become extinct. The genetic changes humans imposed on them aren't reversible, either.

I hope nobody is imposing vegetarian diets on their carnivorous pets.
 
Yeah! We eat lettuce and from what I hear, it's undigestable...

Frankly, I like sausage with my sour-kraut and bulgoki with my kimshee.

The things we will eat...
 
phrodeau said:
That's a really mixed-up message, Starfish. You tell us eating meat isn't natural, yet you recommend pills and supplements.

Humans evolved the ability to digest meat and dairy. It is what allowed them to survive in less hospitable lands, and become the dominant species of Earth. Several other species are now dependent on human husbandry. Without meat-eating people, most meat-bearing species would become extinct. The genetic changes humans imposed on them aren't reversible, either.

I hope nobody is imposing vegetarian diets on their carnivorous pets.

I'm still trying to figure out what herbivores are doin with canine teeth if we're not meant to use 'em. They're not terribly practical for eating veggies.
 
Lol I'm happy the rest of you saw the point I was trying to make... thanks for clarifying. I think it's funny for people to say that we're not supposed to eat this stuff, but we don't blow up or spontaneously combust or die when we do eat them... It's all just propaganda, do with it what you will. (Like ignore it, lol)
 
pagancowgirl said:


I'm still trying to figure out what herbivores are doin with canine teeth if we're not meant to use 'em. They're not terribly practical for eating veggies.

I have wondered that myself. I was vegan for 3 years, not because I had issue with eating animals, but I did have and still do hold issue with the way meat is raised and filled with chemicals. Now I eat only organic free range meat. I took every water soluble non geletin supplement known to mankind and my body never adjusted. I consulted a vegan nutritionist, who had me popping more pills then the late great Elvis. In the end I had to realize that my body does not proccess sythetic nutrients and For my body there aint nothing like the real thing baby! I think that is how it is though, some bodies can handle being meat free others can't.
 
First of all, teeth have little or nothing to do with overall digestion. They are designed as a tool. Herbivorious apes have canines, but only the dominate males will eat a monkey now and again, and it is usually out of a territorial matter.
Enzymes and the length of the digestive tract have EVERYTHING to do with it. Human teeth evoloved to be what they are because we began to eat meat and have continued to do so. If the human species gears toward eating meat for say, another extended length of time like 4000 years, then most likely our digestive tract will evolve and shorten to accomidate our diet. Great, but this doesn't mean that we are equiped to handle it on a maximum efficientcy level now, or at all, to be honest (I'll cover this last).

Yes, we are omnivores, but we are not able to handle the intake of meat that the average human takes in. Have you ever seen one ounce of meat? It is very small. If we should eat a maximum of 2-4 ounces of meat, but most people consume twice that in one sitting, several times a day, then it is clearly not good that the level of dependance on meat as a primary source of nutrition is dominating the landscape of human exisistance.
This goes to show with anything really, but most people don't know the truth about the human digestive system.

Secondly, just because something is toxic, doesn't mean it will kill you at all, or right away. No one ever said it will kill you, or that if it does over time (by wear on the body) that you'd know that was it that wore your system out. What you all are not acknowledging is that the toxins wear out your organs. They will function less properly and which may lead to some sort of degenerative disease. Thus partly equating to the whole delimma of "unknown" causes of certain organ diseases. So, what is so ridiculous about the 'why don't we just die' from it bit is that many things are horrible for you.. cigarettes for one, very toxic..... but they don't make you keel over right away. :rolleyes:

Thirdly, I never said it wasn't 'natural'. What I said was, and will stick to, is that we didn't evolove that way naturally, but more out of self will to survive in hostile climates we are not equipped for. You will not find this sort of thing in other species. Other species will migrate to other areas, but only to ones that provide the foods they need. We are still not evolved to handle it on a level that is truely healthy, that is what I am saying. If you want to further put words in my mouth, I reccomend you use the ones I've given. I never said just any pill. Many pills are derived from natural sources, and contain the natural componets our bodies need. Many are not, being chalked full of fillers and chemicals. I personally do not take any pills. Not one. I just don't like seeing other people not take care of themselves properly, and if you are going to eat out of a box or a can, then I reccomend you take the right procautions. I prepare everything I eat and I eat healtier than anyone I know. I don't need pills, but that is because I am educated about proper diet.



Now, for those of you who feel that I am wrong, then you can go off thinking what you want, I don't impose my beliefs or even the facts I've learned from my studies in biology, I share them. But I reccomend that before you go making your mind up about a matter like this, you spend a decent amount of time studying human physiology in comparision to other animal types.


Phrodeau, I am laughing so hard at your big reference to the supposed need for us to eat meat because certain animals would be extinct if we didn't care for them, raise them and eat them. There is not a single domesticated animal that originated in a natural state, aside from goats and sheep. How many of you eat goat and sheep on a regular basis?

You're right. They'd all not be here, because we'd not have created them to eat. This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. Name a single cow or chicken breed, that we consume, that existed earlier than 900 b.c.a. You can't. They didn't exist. People have been hybridizing them to make them what they desire, not what nature prefers. Yeah, they'd all die out there on thier own... no thanks to humans.

Oh, and my dogs get a mix of beef, peas, carrots and potatoes, or chicken and the same. Sometimes, they get pork and peas.

How can you say we evolved to eat something when you can take that variable out of the diet, and that being can still survive, healthfully, by other means? Or that if you simply take that variable away, that the human will loose the ability to digest it within less than a year.... in their life time?

That is not evoloution. You are confusing human internal accquired 'tolerance' of something over an evolutionarily based trait. Evolution is strictly defined by a species ability to change a trait within the species, species wide.

Fact: We are not born with the enzymes to digest meat. We acquire them by exposing our children to meat on a gradual basis. If you don't give your kid meat, they'll never get the ability to digest it. Sorry, but this is not evolution. If anything it is forced evolution, which doesn't make it wrong, just stupid.
 
I applaude Starfish for having the courage of her convictions and for having the knowledge to back it up!!! Brava, siter, Brava!!!

I myself do not eat any mammals or poultry or dairy. I do, however, eat fish and eggs as my main source of protein. I am lactose intolerant, so dairy is right out for me. I don't excuse my eating fish, I realize they have a right to live as much as any animal. In my case, I found it damn near impossible to live as a vegan. I tried, believe me, I tried. I live a rather fast paced life, that doesn't allow me the time to plan and prepare all my meals so that I could make sure I was getting complete proteins. In the end, I ended up being very protein deficient (sp?). My son, who is almost 2, has never had meat of any sort pass his lips. He and his father get alot of their protein from dairy. My husband eats fish as well, mainly because I cook it.

In the end, I feel that eating meat is the choice of the individual. I think it is cruel, but don't feel that I have the right to make discisions for others. One most do what one thinks is best.
 
Originally posted by Starfish
Yes, we are omnivores, but we are not able to handle the intake of meat that the average human takes in. Have you ever seen one ounce of meat? It is very small. If we should eat a maximum of 2-4 ounces of meat, but most people consume twice that in one sitting, several times a day, then it is clearly not good that the level of dependance on meat as a primary source of nutrition is dominating the landscape of human exisistance.
This goes to show with anything really, but most people don't know the truth about the human digestive system.


Does this jibe with your assertion that meat in moderation is toxic?

Secondly, just because something is toxic, doesn't mean it will kill you at all, or right away. No one ever said it will kill you, or that if it does over time (by wear on the body) that you'd know that was it that wore your system out. What you all are not acknowledging is that the toxins wear out your organs. They will function less properly and which may lead to some sort of degenerative disease. Thus partly equating to the whole delimma of "unknown" causes of certain organ diseases. So, what is so ridiculous about the 'why don't we just die' from it bit is that many things are horrible for you.. cigarettes for one, very toxic..... but they don't make you keel over right away. :rolleyes:


Some organs are good at filtering out toxins, and improve their performance with use. This is how tolerances are built.

Phrodeau, I am laughing so hard at your big reference to the supposed need for us to eat meat because certain animals would be extinct if we didn't care for them, raise them and eat them. There is not a single domesticated animal that originated in a natural state, aside from goats and sheep. How many of you eat goat and sheep on a regular basis?

You're right. They'd all not be here, because we'd not have created them to eat. This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. Name a single cow or chicken breed, that we consume, that existed earlier than 900 b.c.a. You can't. They didn't exist. People have been hybridizing them to make them what they desire, not what nature prefers. Yeah, they'd all die out there on thier own... no thanks to humans.


This makes me think that vegetarians have a hidden agenda - to reclaim pasture land for human use. Are those who choose vegetarianism out of compassion for animals misguided? Or are livestock better off dead?

How can you say we evolved to eat something when you can take that variable out of the diet, and that being can still survive, healthfully, by other means? Or that if you simply take that variable away, that the human will loose the ability to digest it within less than a year.... in their life time?


I'd be interested to know which enzymes exist in the meats we can eat that don't exist in our own bodies. Or why an enzyme absent in the GI tract prevents digestion if it occurs in the food itself?

That is not evoloution. You are confusing human internal accquired 'tolerance' of something over an evolutionarily based trait. Evolution is strictly defined by a species ability to change a trait within the species, species wide.


You are introducing a false dichotomy. An internal acquired tolerance is an evolution-based trait. Your definition of evolution is faulty. Evolutionary steps can occur on an individual level. A mutant survives to reproduce or it doesn't.
 
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