Culloden and other distasteful history lessons

[shereads]

History is boring until you grow up and do some serious reading. Then it's unbearable. You English, for example. Why so nasty after Culloden?

I want roots, but I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to choose Gaelic ones. The more I learn, the angrier I become, and I was already near my anger tipping-point before I started reading about Culloden. Do I have to swear an oath of vengeance against people with the surname 'Cumberland?' I'm not sure I have the energy to do more right now than just brood and try to develop a taste for scotch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, historians, but history seems to confirm that people suck. Am I missing something?

 

[Guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong, historians, but history seems to confirm that people suck. Am I missing something?

Maybe.

I'd stick with you, only, though.

 

[Guest]

Maybe.

I'd stick with you, only, though.

You just wait a minute!

Sher's with me!

 

[shereads]

Anybody know where I can learn Gaelic pronunciation? The curses are too good to remain unused.

Titim gan éirí ort.

May you fall without rising.

Go n-ithe an cat thú is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat.

May the cat eat you, and may the cat be eaten by the devil.

 

[Guest]

Anybody know where I can learn Gaelic pronunciation?

I don't.

bump

 

[scheherazade_79]

You English, for example. Why so nasty after Culloden?

They're alright now, but the English went through a real phase of being nasty to anyone they could. Scottish, Irish, Welsh, African tribes... it was pretty much a case of whoever was weakest and most convenient.

From a Welsh perspective, they did their best to eradicate both the language and culture. I really have no idea why. Probably because they could.

The English aren't too bad these days, though. They seem to be generally 'pushier' and more confident than Celts, but at least they've quit with the raping and pillaging

 

[angelicminx]

Gaelic Pronunciation

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[Equinoxe]

History is boring until you grow up and do some serious reading. Then it's unbearable. You English, for example. Why so nasty after Culloden?

Vengeance and to make an example I should imagine; Culloden marked the defeat of the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion and by dismantling the Clans and oppressing Scotland, it was a means for Parliament and the Hanoverian Kings to control the Scots and to prevent another Jacobite (and by extension, Scottish nationalist) uprising. Anti-Catholicism was another factor, to be sure, as it always had been in regards to the Stuarts.

For some reason though, Celtic and Germanic peoples have never gotten along terribly well: the Gauls and the Germans warred, the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes invaded Celtic Briton, the Anglo-Saxons warred with the Welsh and Scottish; the Norse invaded Scotland and Ireland (granted everywhere else too), the Normans (who were of Norse descent) established English control over Ireland and Scotland, and so forth.

I want roots, but I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to choose Gaelic ones. The more I learn, the angrier I become, and I was already near my anger tipping-point before I started reading about Culloden. Do I have to swear an oath of vengeance against people with the surname 'Cumberland?' I'm not sure I have the energy to do more right now than just brood and try to develop a taste for scotch.

Celtic roots are a tad depressing; I'm pretty solidly Irish/Scottish myself, so I'm well aware of that.

I don't think you have to swear an oath of vengeance against the Dukes of Cumberland or their extended family though. You could become a Jacobite, but at this point that's really trading a German Princess for some obscure German princeling (Prince Max of Bavaria). I suppose support of the SNP would probably be the more palatable route though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, historians, but history seems to confirm that people suck. Am I missing something?

History is more or less a series of examples of human cruelty and viciousness. There are positive moments and positive elements, but even those are coloured by selfishness and greed and sundry other base reasonings.

Genocide has been a common pasttime amongst human beings.

And that's my first post on the AH.

 

[Songcatcher]

Yep. I read it.

 

[shereads]

Bonnie Prince I'mOuttaHere

Was Bonnie Prince Charlie a sniveling coward, or was he the first modern Commander in Chief? Here's the letter he left for the clans when he left for France to, uh, get reinforcements, having suffered a nasty hangnail while protecting his rear flank.

By the Prince's command, the letter was not to be read until he left Scotland. Good move.

"When I came to this country, it was my only view to do all in my power for your good and safety. This I will always do as long as life is within me. But alas, I see with grief, I can at present do little for you on this side of the water, for the one thing that can now be done is for you to defend yourselves till the French assist you and if not to be able to make better terms.

"To effectuate this, the only way is to assemble in a body as soon as possible and then to take measures for the best, which you that know the country, are only judges of.

"This makes me being of little use here, whereas, by my going into France, instantly, however dangerous it be, ( ) I will certainly engage the French Court either to assist us effectively and powerfully, or at least to procure you such terms as you would not obtain otherwise.."

From a Welsh perspective, they {the English} did their best to eradicate both the language and culture. I really have no idea why.

I hate to say this, but I think it was the place names and street signs that drove them to it:

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch The longest town name in the world means "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".

"I'm sorry, was that the dark red cave, or the reddish-brown cave? Can you be a bit more specific?"

 

[shereads]

And that's my first post on the AH.

Thanks for talking me out of that oath of vengeance. With all the yard work that needs to be done, I don't know when I'd have had the time.

In gratitude, here are some handy tips for newcomers to the Authors Hangout.

1. It's a good idea to start composing your "I'm leaving and never coming back" thread right away, just in case you suddenly get fed up. I'm told the Hangout isn't what it used to be.

2. Every year or so, there will be a controversy over close-ups of genitalia used as AVs. You don't have to decide right now, but you'll be expected to take sides.

3. Most of these people write dirty stories. Be careful with those links in their signature lines!

 

[Equinoxe]

Thanks for talking me out of that oath of vengeance. With all the yard work that needs to be done, I don't know when I'd have had the time.

All right, but what I really want to know is, have I talked you into supporting a Stuart Absolutist Monarchy? You know, Divine Right of Kings, The Trew Lawe of Free Monarchies, and all of that fun?

In gratitude, here are some handy tips for newcomers to the Authors Hangout.

1. It's a good idea to start composing your "I'm leaving and never coming back" thread right away, just in case you suddenly get fed up. I'm told the Hangout isn't what it used to be.

Thank you.

I'll make up several of different flavours, an "I say, I have never been so offended in my life!" exit, an "All my family were eaten by a rhinoceros, I just can't find the time anymore." exit, and perhaps an "I've been declared Queen of Scotland, for obvious reasons, I must depart." exit. You know, just to cover all of my bases.

2. Every year or so, there will be a controversy over close-ups of genitalia used as AVs. You don't have to decide right now, but you'll be expected to take sides.

Duly noted, I shall have to give it some thought.

3. Most of these people write dirty stories. Be careful with those links in their signature lines!

The outrage! How positively indecent! *faints*

 

[Guest]

But us English aren't nasty now (much. Well, most of the time). We learn from the mistakes of the past. Without studying those right royal cock-ups, we might do it all over again.

Take The Krankies, for instance...

*shudder*

 

[Guest]

an "All my family were eaten by a rhinoceros, I just can't find the time anymore." exit,

Shit! I knew Rhino was horny, but I didn't think he was that bad!

Hi Equinoxe!

 

[Equinoxe]

Hi Equinoxe!

Hello, Tatelou!

I figured I might as well branch out my posting a bit (and I may actually write stories in the near future), so here I am.

 

[TheEarl]

Evening Equinoxe. I like you.

Yes, we English did horrible things when we won in the past, but we did them because we could. Every nation did horrible things to the defeated, simply because they had the audacity to stand up to them.

Why are you looking for 'roots'? It seems to be a peculiarly American trait to go and look for other countries' masts to tie their flag to and one that I can't say I understand. I certainly don't like it much after the Americans who decided their Irish 'roots' made it necessary for them to donate money to those brave Irish freedom fighters who were being horribly oppressed by the jackbooted English.

The Earl

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Hello Equinoxe.

A tenchant analysis, but you fail to take into account the effect of the Duke's war elephants, which played havoc with the Campbell's division of men armed with rocks and heavy sticks. Sweeping down from the Hindu Kush, they pinned the hapless Scots between their ships and the mangrove swamps, and the Hunnish mercenaries and malaria did the rest.

It wasn't a pretty sight.

Seriously though, wasn't Culloden the last battle that featured large numbers of infantry armed with swords? Didn't work too well, did they?

Yes in the new Star Wars you don't see anyone armed with a "light musket". Another leftist consipracy?

 

[TheEarl]

Hello Equinoxe.

A tenchant analysis, but you fail to take into account the effect of the Duke's war elephants, which played havoc with the Campbell's division of men armed with rocks and heavy sticks. Sweeping down from the Hindu Kush, they pinned the hapless Scots between their ships and the mangrove swamps, and the Hunnish mercenaries and malaria did the rest.

It wasn't a pretty sight.

Seriously though, wasn't Culloden the last battle that featured large numbers of infantry armed with swords? Didn't work too well, did they?

Yes in the new Star Wars you don't see anyone armed with a "light musket". Another leftist consipracy?

You're in a fairly Dadaist mood today Doc?

The Earl

 

[Equinoxe]

Evening Equinoxe. I like you.

Thank you. In my quick perusal of this board, I've enjoyed your posts as well.

Hello Equinoxe.

Hello.

Seriously though, wasn't Culloden the last battle that featured large numbers of infantry armed with swords? Didn't work too well, did they?

Swords, axes, spears, that sort of thing yes. It didn't work out terribly for the Highlanders no, although they were also outnumbered. As far as European battles, it was definitely one of the last of that nature.

There were battles later in history that still involved infantry armed with rather out of date weapons, like Isandlwana for one (in which the rather inferior armaments of the Zulus still carried the day, but there were something like 20,000 of them faced against less than 1,500 British soldiers).

 

[rgraham666]

As far as looking for 'roots' go, that's pretty typical of the nouveau riche. Not content to simply enjoy their wealth and power, the legitimacy of an ancient past must be conferred upon theirs riches.

In many ways, as on of my favourite authours points out, we here in the West have an inferiority complex. We've never gotten over the fact that we're not the Roman Empire and keep trying claim that 'glorious' past.

And yes history is full of horrors. We can either feel bad about it or use as a lesson. It's up to us.

 

[cloudy]

Hello, Tatelou!

I figured I might as well branch out my posting a bit (and I may actually write stories in the near future), so here I am.

Welcome to the asylum, Equinoxe!

Sher, you chose a good'un, didn't you? Cursing in Cherokee is just as much fun - there aren't any curse words so you have to be creative with them, such as:

Nihi uha ukadv nasgi uwasv gitli yelique gvgeyui.

You have a face only a dog could love.

 

[Guest]

Hello, Tatelou!

I figured I might as well branch out my posting a bit (and I may actually write stories in the near future), so here I am.

Bloody hell, brave as well as funny. I hope you stick around.

 

[Equinoxe]

Welcome to the asylum, Equinoxe!

Thank you!

Bloody hell, brave as well as funny. I hope you stick around.

And thank you as well.

I must say, it's kind of fun being new again.

 

[scheherazade_79]

"I'm sorry, was that the dark red cave, or the reddish-brown cave? Can you be a bit more specific?"

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch The longest town name in the world means "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".

Technically, it's more of a scarlet colour

Every nation did horrible things to the defeated, simply because they had the audacity to stand up to them.

The Welsh never did anything like that, but admittedly that's probably because they always were the defeated. Apart from one occasion where a group of feisty Welsh women sent a Napoleonic invasion packing