Crossing the line from fantasy into forbidden reality

[MelancholyBaby]

I want to make a disclaimer first. I am a little freaked out by some information I discovered this morning so my post may not be totally clear. I realize that I could have placed this in a different forum but based on my year or so of mostly lurking here I find that the individuals who post here are ones I respect their opinions so that is why I chose here to post this.

I have done a lot of roleplaying over the years. I have been in Daddy/daughter relationships. I always assumed (naively or otherwise) that my partners were looking at it similarly, that they enjoyed this relationship dynamic with another ADULT who identified with being a little girl. Well, I recently discovered one had made the transition to being interested in children as well as adults.

Granted it has been a number of years since I have talked to him but he was a person that made a lasting impression on me. But I can't help but wonder if I had something to do with his crossing the line from an adult consentual relationship to one that wasn't as such.

I guess what I am saying is that if he wouldn't have had me accept him for who he was (absolutely thinking that this was only something he was interested in as two adults) and encourage his fantasy by participating in it with him, do you think he would have still found himself where he is at now? I feel a tremendous amount of guilt and I honestly don't know whether some or all of it is justified or not. (I am not saying he ever did anything with a child, but he did have pictures, which to me is still something that makes me sick.)

Please feel free to reply here or PM. I am really struggling with this, I am no stranger to the abuse of children and it makes me sick inside to think that I could have in some small way contribued to his crossing the line that I didn't expect him or any of my partners to cross.

 

[petes478]

Only he is responsible for his actions.

Dear Melancholy Baby,

I understand the guilt you are feeling, but I want to gently remind you that each of us is responsible only for his or her own actions. You cannot control what another person does. You sound like a responsible person and its natural for you to feel the way you do now, upon hearing this news. But your ex-partner knew what he was doing was wrong, and though you two have role-played in the past, thats all it was. He clearly has or had a predeliction for this sort of thing and now he has crossed a line that he cannot uncross. Your role was purely in the past and as consenting adults. I wish I could help you more, but this is all I have.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i know it's easier said than done, but try to stop the guilt trip. you didn't contribute to or cause anything. your relationship simply allowed him a safe, legal, guilt-free way to explore fantasies and urges he's likely always had, but perhaps could previously never admit to himself.

but i also think you shouldn't be so quick to label him as sick or some sort of monster (unless there's some significant information about him you're withholding from us). there is a difference between those who collect and enjoy the pictures of underage erotic activity, and those who actively pursue the reality.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think people are who/what they are, and your acceptance was just icing on the cake for them. In my travels I have come across 2 Dominants who eventually admitted to having sexual relationships with children at various points of their life, and not finding anything wrong with it. I made my feelings clear that IMHO it was wrong, and that it was not part of who I was or someone I would be interested in bringing into my life as a partner in any form.

Catalina

 

[MelancholyBaby]

From what I understand the pictures he had were of children under the age of 12 and depicted sadistic/masochistic activities. Based on what I knew he liked I'm assuming that the pictures are probably similar to the Max Hardcore style porn, only this time the models were underage.

I don't really think of him as a monster, but as someone who was once a nonconsenting child in an abusive relationship I am maybe more hard on him than I should be.

Thank you all for your kind responses.

 

[ownedsubgal]

From what I understand the pictures he had were of children under the age of 12 and depicted sadistic/masochistic activities. Based on what I knew he liked I'm assuming that the pictures are probably similar to the Max Hardcore style porn, only this time the models were underage.

I don't really think of him as a monster, but as someone who was once a nonconsenting child in an abusive relationship I am maybe more hard on him than I should be.

Thank you all for your kind responses.

MelancholyBaby, you're not alone by any means in regards to your firsthand experiences with childhood abuse. my own abuser, who started in on me when i was 5, was a true sadist who especially delighted in extended bondage and psychological torture. many of us have those war wounds. but i think that perhaps due to my own experiences with the worst form of humanity that i'm not so quick to judge or villify those who have erotic desires toward children. i draw thick bold black lines between pedophiles (those with the attraction) and molestors (those who hurt children), and between those who fantasize with roleplay and picture collecting and those who plot and scheme to make the fantasies reality.

 

[intothewoods]

I'd be surprised if there were all that many pedophiles who don't in fact act on their urges. If you're downloading child porn, you're breaking the law. You're risking your freedom and your reputation to satisfy certain urges. There's already a lack of healthy boundaries there. Why stop there? I'm sure some do, but I wouldn't bet the bank on most.

 

[M's girl]

deleted

 

[Netzach]

Unless those are drawings or computer renderings, someone's getting off on people under 12 being tortured - consent a non-issue.


Not OK. No amount of theorizing makes it ok. He's not, in my opinion AS culpable as someone actually doing it, but you have taken it out of the sphere of theory once a kid is actually having things done to them.

Is that YOUR fault?

Hell no.

Hold people responsible for their OWN stuff. Your play was a responsible adult outlet.

 

[Luvkitty33]

I want to make a disclaimer first. I am a little freaked out by some information I discovered this morning so my post may not be totally clear. I realize that I could have placed this in a different forum but based on my year or so of mostly lurking here I find that the individuals who post here are ones I respect their opinions so that is why I chose here to post this.

I have done a lot of roleplaying over the years. I have been in Daddy/daughter relationships. I always assumed (naively or otherwise) that my partners were looking at it similarly, that they enjoyed this relationship dynamic with another ADULT who identified with being a little girl. Well, I recently discovered one had made the transition to being interested in children as well as adults.

Granted it has been a number of years since I have talked to him but he was a person that made a lasting impression on me. But I can't help but wonder if I had something to do with his crossing the line from an adult consentual relationship to one that wasn't as such.

I guess what I am saying is that if he wouldn't have had me accept him for who he was (absolutely thinking that this was only something he was interested in as two adults) and encourage his fantasy by participating in it with him, do you think he would have still found himself where he is at now? I feel a tremendous amount of guilt and I honestly don't know whether some or all of it is justified or not. (I am not saying he ever did anything with a child, but he did have pictures, which to me is still something that makes me sick.)

Please feel free to reply here or PM. I am really struggling with this, I am no stranger to the abuse of children and it makes me sick inside to think that I could have in some small way contribued to his crossing the line that I didn't expect him or any of my partners to cross.

I can only imagine the shock you must have felt when stumbling across this information. I got the chills just reading about it, and it made my stomach turn.

I do NOT, in any way, shape, or form, think you had anything to do with his decision to cross the line from fantasy to reality. Daddy/Daughter relationships are, from what I understand, not even role-playing. It's a relationship where the woman is more child-like, and the man enjoys the role of the father-figure, the nurturer, so to speak. It's just the way they naturally are.....like a personality trait. It's also a relationship between two consenting adults. I see that kind of relationship as a completely seperate entity from the way a child molester's mind works. The child molester lusts after CHILDREN, and a Daddy Dom is attracted to women with child-like behaviors...........but they are still all woman. A child molester is taking without consent because, as was discussed by several in another thread, even if a child says yes, their brains are not developmentally capable of predicting the consequences of their actions, thus true consent can not be given.

In my opinion, if your ex-partner was looking at pictures like you described in a later post and is collecting them, then he is just one step closer to crossing yet another line, if he hasn't already. I agree whole-heartedly with M's girl in that you should report him. If you're feeling this guilty over something that you had NO responsibility in creating, imagine how you would feel if you found out he was molesting a child?

I know it's not easy, but hopefully what people have written here will help you sort out your feelings about this and realize that you had nothing to do with the way this guy's mind works. Try to let go of the guilt.

 

[MelancholyBaby]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

He and I have been separated for some time, and I cannot report him as he has already been reported and is currently in jail (at least based on what I've read.) I just happened to google him this morning to show some of my friends that I don't always go for men way way older than me (he was only 5 years my senior) when the first link I found was the one describing his sentencing.

 

[wayfarm]

I'm glad that I read through this. Puts my mind at ease.

Your play with him should not bring you guilt. However, if you in fact saw the pictures and knew the models were underage, I would say YES. You have a duty to report such behaviour.

Protecting children is foremost.

 

[ownedsubgal]

he's in prison simply for possessing images of underage girls involved in sexual acts? for how long? i've never felt entirely comfortable with the idea of heavily prosecuting and pursuing those who simply view these images, when the true criminals and abusers of children are those who produce them in the first place.

 

[Tabea]

he's in prison simply for possessing images of underage girls involved in sexual acts? for how long? i've never felt entirely comfortable with the idea of heavily prosecuting and pursuing those who simply view these images, when the true criminals and abusers of children are those who produce them in the first place.

But at least some of those pictures would not get produced if there wasn't a market for them.

 

[HottieMama]

MB... i would be really disturbed by this as well, but i do NOT think any of it is your fault in the least.

Child porn is illegal and the bastard should ROT in jail in my opinion. i'm sorry but i will never have a single ounce of respect for anyone that views child porn or sees small children as sexual objects. Seriously, it makes me want to fucking VOMIT. I don't give a shit about who the abusers are or aren't. If you are downloading pics of children and viewing them and you aren't a FBI investigator working on a case you are one fucked up human being. You are even MORE fucked up when you use said pictures to get off.

 

[nh23]

MB... i would be really disturbed by this as well, but i do NOT think any of it is your fault in the least.

Child porn is illegal and the bastard should ROT in jail in my opinion. i'm sorry but i will never have a single ounce of respect for anyone that views child porn or sees small children as sexual objects. Seriously, it makes me want to fucking VOMIT. I don't give a shit about who the abusers are or aren't. If you are downloading pics of children and viewing them and you aren't a FBI investigator working on a case you are one fucked up human being. You are even MORE fucked up when you use said pictures to get off.

I couldn't agree more. A living breathing child has been fucked up for life so someone can get their jollies. It disgusts me.

 

[wayfarm]

MB... i would be really disturbed by this as well, but i do NOT think any of it is your fault in the least.

Child porn is illegal and the bastard should ROT in jail in my opinion. i'm sorry but i will never have a single ounce of respect for anyone that views child porn or sees small children as sexual objects. Seriously, it makes me want to fucking VOMIT. I don't give a shit about who the abusers are or aren't. If you are downloading pics of children and viewing them and you aren't a FBI investigator working on a case you are one fucked up human being. You are even MORE fucked up when you use said pictures to get off.

Thank you very much for saying what I thought. The idea that people would allow for this is ridiculous. Or putting thought into the chain of who makes it and views it.

A friend is a prison guard. He says known Child molestors are in for a Very rough life. Honor amoung thieves.

 

[HottieMama]

Disclaimer: i think most of us know this, but i have to put it here for my own peace of mind.

This guy MB is referring to is not a DaddyDom. Not in the least.


The fact that he called himself one, at one time, sincerely bothers me on the whole "you're trashing my "preference" level."

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I do not know the fellow in question, I do not know the specifics of his case, so I will withhold passing judgement on _him_ beyond a general condemnation of pedophilia and the possession and/or use of child pornography.

Now, regarding _you_ and _your_ felt guilt, MB, it isn't your sin. Our sexual preferences, our turn ons and turn offs, are pretty well settled by the time we are adults. We might grow and change how we ACT on those desires, but they are already well established by the time we hit our twenties. YOU didn't turn him into a pedophile. Unless you were children growing up together, he was one for some time before he ever met you. In all probability he had a collection of child pornography before you came into his life and he managed to keep it a secret from you. He may have added to the collection after he met you but trust me on this, it wasn't something he started because you had a Daddy/girl relationship with him.

He is responsible for his own actions. You are not.

Also consider the flip side of the coin... By having a consenting adult relationship that allowed him to act out certain fantasies, you may have provided a "safety valve" so to speak. By giving him a safe, consentual way to respond to those desires you may have kept him from actually molesting a child incable of giving consent. I'm sure there is no way to know for certain, short of asking him directly or waiting for a victim to step forward, but think of that positive aspect as a possibility if the negatives start to wear you down.

Owning their own failings is quite enough burden for any person to carry, toting around someone else's baggage too isn't healthy for us. Try to let this one go, hon.

YIK,
- Geoff

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Also consider the flip side of the coin... By having a consenting adult relationship that allowed him to act out certain fantasies, you may have provided a "safety valve" so to speak. By giving him a safe, consentual way to respond to those desires you may have kept him from actually molesting a child incable of giving consent.

I agree with other posters but especially with EG here. If you want to view yourself in any way connected with this, think only that your relationship with this man likely gave him the outlet he needed to keep his predatory paedophillic inclinations in check. Possibly at that time he wanted an adult outlet specifically because he knew he was a threat to children otherwise.

Bottom line is, you will probably never know. He has clearly had these urges for a very long time ~ not your fault. Anything could have altered his mental state and made him more obsessed with children, even predatory ~ again, not your fault.

HottieMamma is right in that using you as an outlet for paedophillic tendencies is an abuse of the Daddy/girl dynamic. He knowingly abused this outlet and your trust in him as a decent adult human being.

All together now... Not your fault.

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

 

[intothewoods]

A few points...

As to EG's point that perhaps the D/g provided an outlet, that is a theory that some scientists posit, but it's not proven. I wish it were that easy, and it may be true, but I just think we should all recognize that this isn't a fact.

About the illegality of possession of child porn...I have mixed feelings about this. When I look at the history of first amendment cases and "obscenity," I find it incredibly forced. That is, I don't think it makes sense that the founding fathers wanted an exception to the first amendment for obscene material.

Now, intellectualy, I can make that argument all day. But look. It's very hard to catch the guys who make child porn. But the truth is that kids were abused to make that stuff, and government's best hope of cracking down on it is to criminalize possesion. Also, as I said before, how many pedophiles don't act on their urges? It's hard to know, but as I said, they are already behaving compulsively, somewhat, by having the images. It's hard for me to believe that in reality there are huge numbers of guys who stop at just jerking off to the stuff.

 

[Luvkitty33]

MB... i would be really disturbed by this as well, but i do NOT think any of it is your fault in the least.

Child porn is illegal and the bastard should ROT in jail in my opinion. i'm sorry but i will never have a single ounce of respect for anyone that views child porn or sees small children as sexual objects. Seriously, it makes me want to fucking VOMIT. I don't give a shit about who the abusers are or aren't. If you are downloading pics of children and viewing them and you aren't a FBI investigator working on a case you are one fucked up human being. You are even MORE fucked up when you use said pictures to get off.

Thank you for expressing exactly how I feel, too. You're right on the money here.

 

[Netzach]

he's in prison simply for possessing images of underage girls involved in sexual acts? for how long? i've never felt entirely comfortable with the idea of heavily prosecuting and pursuing those who simply view these images, when the true criminals and abusers of children are those who produce them in the first place.

I would say that the producers should obviously get harsher penalties. I would also say that it's not a question of "thought crime" when you are talking about things outside words or fabricated images though. It absolutely makes me furious that words and drawings are lumped into this category - hello, then Kara Walker, Henry Darger and Nabokov are all illegal.

As for whether images "lead to" activity - spurious. I don't think we're a violent culture because we have violent video games, I think we have violent video games because we're a violent culture.

 

[callinectes]

MelancholyBaby, you're not alone by any means in regards to your firsthand experiences with childhood abuse. my own abuser, who started in on me when i was 5, was a true sadist who especially delighted in extended bondage and psychological torture. many of us have those war wounds. but i think that perhaps due to my own experiences with the worst form of humanity that i'm not so quick to judge or villify those who have erotic desires toward children. i draw thick bold black lines between pedophiles (those with the attraction) and molestors (those who hurt children), and between those who fantasize with roleplay and picture collecting and those who plot and scheme to make the fantasies reality.

So if there were photos of five year old OSG being abused and pedophiles were jerking off to them you'd be cool with that because it is only fantasy to them?

Here is why I ask..I tend to take a "are mine or anyone else's rights violated?" view of crimes. Consenting adult porn, drug use, prostitution..those things do not affect me..my rights and the rights of those involved have not been violated (one could argue they have from the standpoint of taxes but I don't wanna go there). In the case of child porn, the child's rights were violated when the images were made and they continue to be violated each time the images are viewed. It is not a victimless crime.

I'm wth Netz about the written word and drawings. I may not approve of them but no one is being harmed either.

 

[intothewoods]

I would say that the producers should obviously get harsher penalties. I would also say that it's not a question of "thought crime" when you are talking about things outside words or fabricated images though. It absolutely makes me furious that words and drawings are lumped into this category - hello, then Kara Walker, Henry Darger and Nabokov are all illegal.

Drawings and novels/stories aren't illegal under child porn laws, are they?

As for whether images "lead to" activity - spurious. I don't think we're a violent culture because we have violent video games, I think we have violent video games because we're a violent culture.

True. I don't think images cause the activity in a person who isn't a pedophile.