Critique of first story "Looking for Wood"

[LWulf]

I believe I am doing this right.

You can find my story here.

I realize that my story could only have been better with a story editor involved, but I have yet to as this was a first story and I wasn't aware that editors had to be sought out prior to submitting.

in an aside, regarding that, I admit I'm a little antsy about letting someone review my stories without it being published somewhere, where the editor could post some or all of it elsewhere and claim original ownership of it prior to my edited version being posted here.
But I guess we work off the honor system here...

 

[PennLady]

I believe I am doing this right.

You can find my story here.

I realize that my story could only have been better with a story editor involved, but I have yet to as this was a first story and I wasn't aware that editors had to be sought out prior to submitting.

in an aside, regarding that, I admit I'm a little antsy about letting someone review my stories without it being published somewhere, where the editor could post some or all of it elsewhere and claim original ownership of it prior to my edited version being posted here.
But I guess we work off the honor system here...

I've seen several people voice this fear, that an editor would steal your story, but I've never heard of it happening. So yes, I guess it does work on an honor system. However, the whole point of an editor is that they go over a work before it's published, so at some point I guess you either have to take a leap of faith and use an editor, or just decide not to. And there are plenty of sites out there to give advice on writing and editing, although most here have said self-editing is only good to a point.

 

[LWulf]

I've seen several people voice this fear, that an editor would steal your story, but I've never heard of it happening. So yes, I guess it does work on an honor system. However, the whole point of an editor is that they go over a work before it's published, so at some point I guess you either have to take a leap of faith and use an editor, or just decide not to. And there are plenty of sites out there to give advice on writing and editing, although most here have said self-editing is only good to a point.

Indeed, I pretty much agree with everything you said, though I wasn't aware of there being websites that offer such services... I imagine they don't do it for free?

A wise old man said to me long ago; You never get something for nothing.

I have proven him wrong upon occasion by myself doing something for nothing, but I have rarely, if ever, received the same.

 

[PennLady]

Indeed, I pretty much agree with everything you said, though I wasn't aware of there being websites that offer such services... I imagine they don't do it for free?

A wise old man said to me long ago; You never get something for nothing.

I have proven him wrong upon occasion by myself doing something for nothing, but I have rarely, if ever, received the same.

I'm sorry, I think I miswrote.

I don't know of any site like this that offers editing services.

Lit has three ways to put writers and editors in touch. First, the Volunteer Editors' list, which is hit or miss to say the least. Many profiles are useless as the people no longer use the site. Second, there is an "Available Editors" sticky at the top of the Editor's Forum, and a new one is put up every month. You could check that list and then send a PM to any editor(s) that you think you might be able to work with. Finally, you can post on the Editor's Forum yourself that you need an editor. List all the information about your story that you can, such as category, length, when you need it returned, etc.

As for something for nothing, I suppose that's a good caveat to keep in mind, but I've worked with several editors and none have ever stolen anything, nor did I think they would.

So I have to stand by my original thought -- either you skip using an editor, or you take a chance.

 

[PennLady]

Now on to the original question. I read your story, but since BDSM and spanking aren't my things I can only look at mechanics, really.

There were some issues with punctuation, mostly with dialogue. For example, with this paragraph:

By this time I had finished rolling up my other sleeve and looked at her with both hands on my hips. Do you have any questions before I start?

The question he's asking should be in quotes.

In this one: "Oh gosh, can't you just spank me and be done with it already?" She almost whimpered. "She" should be lower case.

In this one: I paused because she was new. "Do you mean "red"?" Red should be in single quotes, and the question mark inside the single quotes. "Do you mean 'red?'"

I have to admit, too, that I didn't get the feeling this guy was really all that interested in Jamie. He was much more hung up on her age than anything else. He didn't seem to spend a lot of time think about how she looked, or what he wanted to do to her, or anything else, or at least I didn't feel that was spelled out for the reader. I can understand that he wants her and worries about the age, but if he wants her in spite of that, I'd expect him to be almost obsessing over different aspects of her, such as how she looks, or will look or will sound while he's spanking her.

I also didn't get why they were all in on lying about her age, but that may just have been me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I believe I am doing this right.

You can find my story here.

I realize that my story could only have been better with a story editor involved, but I have yet to as this was a first story and I wasn't aware that editors had to be sought out prior to submitting.

in an aside, regarding that, I admit I'm a little antsy about letting someone review my stories without it being published somewhere, where the editor could post some or all of it elsewhere and claim original ownership of it prior to my edited version being posted here.
But I guess we work off the honor system here...

I read the first paragraph, and there's enough there to comment on.

Toss all the static verbs like IS AM ARE WAS WERE BE BEING BEEN HAVE HAD HAS DO DOES DID SHALL WILL SHOULD WOULD MAY MIGHT MUST CAN COULD etc. I mean, if absolutely nuthin else works use the static verb. I imagine your story is larded with static verbs.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I read the first paragraph, and there's enough there to comment on.

Toss all the static verbs like IS AM ARE WAS WERE BE BEING BEEN HAVE HAD HAS DO DOES DID SHALL WILL SHOULD WOULD MAY MIGHT MUST CAN COULD etc. I mean, if absolutely nuthin else works use the static verb. I imagine your story is larded with static verbs.

helpful as ever, you twat.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I forgot OUGHT TO and USED TO.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I forgot OUGHT TO and USED TO.

hopefully that's the alzheimer's.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

hopefully that's the alzheimer's.

Its the company I keep at LIT.

 

[LWulf]

So I have to stand by my original thought -- either you skip using an editor, or you take a chance.

I still agree with you and will have to make a decision on my third (next) story.
hmm though considering what jbj mentioned, I could probably use an editor badly

I have to admit, too, that I didn't get the feeling this guy was really all that interested in Jamie. ... I can understand that he wants her and worries about the age, but if he wants her in spite of that, I'd expect him to be almost obsessing over different aspects of her, such as how she looks, or will look or will sound while he's spanking her.

I also didn't get why they were all in on lying about her age, but that may just have been me.

I won't question the punctuation comments I SHOULD have caught all of those but didn't. The only thing I WILL quibble over is the location of the question mark inside the single quote. If I remember correctly something one college professor said, there was an old way of putting the punctuation outside and the new way is to put it inside. I might just be conforming to the "old ways" and haven't updated myself yet.

In regards to the mental aspect and formation of the character, and this might just be all hogwash, I try to put the reader in the position of sitting on the first person's shoulder. That is, sometimes I let them know what is going on inside, sometimes I don't.
As to his interest in her, I was trying to temper saying too much, over keeping a tempo.
I also tried to express, maybe not enough, that these two were young, him in his late twenties and her, well, obvious. I thought his looking up at her constantly at the party then trying to play b-ball and not being able to focus, suggest he was at least superficially smitten with her?

Young people tend to be superficial and are more concerned with basics and not "what moral stances they have on the ozone layer", or some such.
I kind of thought that his momentary standing up to his friend when they were caught filming Jamie's spanking (something considered taboo in ...almost any circles (filming someone without their permission)), should have said enough that he was protective of her? Maybe I should have put in something more but I try not to rewrite my dreams too much. My dreams tend to not like this and get vindictive.

As for the last, it's a bdsm thing. Some people need a reason. Some people find any reason under the sun worthwhile.
I tried to express that Bill was, essentially, a good friend to everyone at the party, and yet he was alone. They, being equally good friends, saw someone who was interested in him and worked as a team to make it work for him. normally, at a fetish party, there is someone at the door checking out all new people. At an open party like this, I imagine, everyone would be "security". If they weren't all in on it, then Jamie should have been checked then hit on by everybody there, which was a lot of unnecessary back story I didn't want to get into...
Does that help make it jog/make sense?

I read the first paragraph, and there's enough there to comment on.

Toss all the static verbs like IS AM ARE WAS WERE BE BEING BEEN HAVE HAD HAS DO DOES DID SHALL WILL SHOULD WOULD MAY MIGHT MUST CAN COULD USED TO, OUGHT TO etc. I mean, if absolutely nuthin else works use the static verb. I imagine your story is larded with static verbs.

Wow. That's a fundamental error that I wasn't even aware I was making. Thanks for pointing that out!

helpful as ever, you twat.

hopefully that's the alzheimer's.

...geronimo? While I appreciate the "stand up" attitude, I'll point out a) I asked for the critique, and b) I ain't a little girl who started crying because the "big bad man" was "mean" to me. (If I had, by all means, feel free to step in again)

A proper critique, is NOT supposed to tell you how to fix something, but simply tell you what you need to fix.

While JBJ may have been brusk in his methodology, and spoke nothing of any positive aspects of my work (something you generally do in a critique), I understand that; having just waded into the story, he hit so many speed bumps that he couldn't go further. A common reason most people will get glassy eyed and stop reading any story.

...and as to the Alzheimer's comment, don't do that again, not in my thread. That's beneath you.

it's the company...

Ooookay, I didn't post this fast enough apparently.

JBJ, enough, I just said something to him. please don't start a flame war, at least in my thread.
You two have history, fine. Not in my thread.

 

[PennLady]

I still agree with you and will have to make a decision on my third (next) story.
hmm though considering what jbj mentioned, I could probably use an editor badly

JBJ has some good points some times, but I don't agree with a lot of them. I do agree that if you have a lot of phrases like "was doing" or anything that is more passive, you should change them. However, I didn't notice them and that usually sticks out at me. So I'd say if you did use them, you didn't overdo it.

I won't question the punctuation comments I SHOULD have caught all of those but didn't. The only thing I WILL quibble over is the location of the question mark inside the single quote. If I remember correctly something one college professor said, there was an old way of putting the punctuation outside and the new way is to put it inside. I might just be conforming to the "old ways" and haven't updated myself yet.

I know it looks awkward but I'm pretty sure it's right. You should check a punctuation guide to make sure. I often want to do something 'red'?" myself, but I just don't think it's correct. For example, if you were quoting or emphasizing a word, you might say: "chair." but not "chair". There are also US/UK differences, and that's fine. Lit is a US site and so most stuff conforms to US guidelines, but there's plenty of stuff in UK style too.

In regards to the mental aspect and formation of the character, and this might just be all hogwash, I try to put the reader in the position of sitting on the first person's shoulder. That is, sometimes I let them know what is going on inside, sometimes I don't.
As to his interest in her, I was trying to temper saying too much, over keeping a tempo.

Well, that's all fine, but I think it's too easy to err in the wrong direction. It's one thing to have a sense of mystery or doubt or whatever, but it's another to withhold information from the reader. The trick -- and I'm not saying I've mastered it -- is to give enough information to keep someone reading without giving it all away. I don't know that trying to put the reader on the protagonist's shoulder is necessarily a good approach.

And one potential mystery you brought up and then just dropped was the idea that Jamie might have been Nancy's sub. Perhaps you intend to follow that up later, but I think you should either clarify it or drop it.

I also tried to express, maybe not enough, that these two were young, him in his late twenties and her, well, obvious. I thought his looking up at her constantly at the party then trying to play b-ball and not being able to focus, suggest he was at least superficially smitten with her?

If the reader can't sense that Bill's interested in Jamie, then I think you've lost a pretty essential part of your story. Looking it over I see that yes, he's curious, and he says he's "crestfallen" when he doesn't see her at first, but it doesn't feel like enough. As for earlier in the day -- he daydreams a bit and then stops, then plays basketball but "it didn't work" to distract him. That's it. Well, what else happened to him?

And no, I personally didn't get the impression he was "smitten." More distracted and slightly interested but that's all; in fact, as I said, he seems far more upset that someone brought an underage participant to the party.

Young people tend to be superficial and are more concerned with basics and not "what moral stances they have on the ozone layer", or some such.

True, so why don't we see Bill musing on such superficial things as Jamie's appearance, or how she might react when spanked? As for his age, I definitely thought of Bill as being more in his 30s.

I kind of thought that his momentary standing up to his friend when they were caught filming Jamie's spanking (something considered taboo in ...almost any circles (filming someone without their permission)), should have said enough that he was protective of her? Maybe I should have put in something more but I try not to rewrite my dreams too much. My dreams tend to not like this and get vindictive.

I can see the protectiveness there, but I have to say, protective or not, I'd be royally pissed if someone did that to me, friend or no. That's a serious violation of privacy and boundaries.

I tried to express that Bill was, essentially, a good friend to everyone at the party, and yet he was alone. They, being equally good friends, saw someone who was interested in him and worked as a team to make it work for him. normally, at a fetish party, there is someone at the door checking out all new people. At an open party like this, I imagine, everyone would be "security". If they weren't all in on it, then Jamie should have been checked then hit on by everybody there, which was a lot of unnecessary back story I didn't want to get into...
Does that help make it jog/make sense?

It does but if you have to explain all that to me, the reader, after the fact, then to me it means something's missing in the story itself. Bill did seem like a loner, but I didn't know why. And I still don't see why Ben, et al, were in on this joke of lying about Jamie's age. That made no sense to me.

To be honest, I had a hard time buying the idea of this regular, impromptu spanking party, but hey, that's me and why not have this fantasy in a story. Plus, whenever I say things like that, people note that similar things happened to them, so obviously I've led a sheltered life.

I understand not wanting to provide a lot of back story, and I'm not saying you have to, but there are "short cuts" you can use to establish your history and setting.

JBJ, enough, I just said something to him. please don't start a flame war, at least in my thread.
You two have history, fine. Not in my thread.

Warnings like this never work, btw.

 

[sr71plt]

In this one: I paused because she was new. "Do you mean "red"?" Red should be in single quotes, and the question mark inside the single quotes. "Do you mean 'red?'"

On this one, yes, "red" here should be in single quotes. The U.S. style is always to alternate double and single quotes, starting with double at the first instance.

But it should be: "Do you mean 'red'?"

The question mark is for the whole sentence, not just what is inside the 'red' term.

 

[PennLady]

On this one, yes, "red" here should be in single quotes. The U.S. style is always to alternate double and single quotes, starting with double at the first instance.

But it should be: "Do you mean 'red'?"

The question mark is for the whole sentence, not just what is inside the 'red' term.

Thanks for the clarification. That's the kind of thing I'm not sure of and can never seem to find confirmation of.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for the clarification. That's the kind of thing I'm not sure of and can never seem to find confirmation of.

This particular point is addressed in an example given in 6.70 of the Chicago Manual of Style.

The progression of single/double quotes is discussed in 13.28 of the CMS.

 

[PennLady]

This particular point is addressed in an example given in 6.70 of the Chicago Manual of Style.

The progression of single/double quotes is discussed in 13.28 of the CMS.

Good to know, but I don't have it, or a subscription to it. I guess I have to look around take my chances.

 

[LWulf]

JBJ has some good points some times, but I don't agree with a lot of them.

Whether right or wrong is immaterial, I just meant that with that much of a possible fundamental error being accomplished, a second set of eyes (editor) would seem the most prudent thing to do...

And one potential mystery you brought up and then just dropped was the idea that Jamie might have been Nancy's sub. Perhaps you intend to follow that up later, but I think you should either clarify it or drop it.

I will neither confirm nor deny any possibility. All I will say is... wait for sequel! (if it ever gets written )

As for his age, I definitely thought of Bill as being more in his 30s.

It does but if you have to explain all that to me, the reader, after the fact, then to me it means something's missing in the story itself.

I'll chalk this all up to a matter of learning the craft, though I personally have always acted older than my age, in fact my step mother said I was the oldest young man she ever knew (20 years old at the time). So maybe I am putting too much of myself in the character? IDK

I can see the protectiveness there, but I have to say, protective or not, I'd be royally pissed if someone did that to me, friend or no. That's a serious violation of privacy and boundaries.

Indeed, but they both gave the cameras to Jamie immediately afterwards. So, didn't that seem to negate a threat violation of privacy? I mean, they are at a public social function, not in the privacy of their own home, so.. meh, IDK

Warnings like this never work, btw.

Whether it works or not doesn't matter, I had to try.

 

[sr71plt]

Good to know, but I don't have it, or a subscription to it. I guess I have to look around take my chances.

I just gave citations because this is the point when some poster chimes in with how their hairdresser aunt Hazel does it and thumbs their nose at the authorities.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_passive_voice

If a passive voice is what you want, lard it up with static verbs. Maybe your character is a meek and tepid wall-flower blown about by life, and a passive voice is congruent with her dependent personality.

 

[LWulf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_passive_voice

If a passive voice is what you want, lard it up with static verbs. Maybe your character is a meek and tepid wall-flower blown about by life, and a passive voice is congruent with her dependent personality.

Well, This is supposed to be a "small town, back woods" kind of place. I made references stating that as much as I could without being too verbose. The main character is an auto mechanic. Something that was in the first draft, but I subsequently removed for "tempo" reasons. Maybe that was wrong. Whatever.

He see's himself basically as a second class citizen. Now that I think of it, think of the main character as "Gomer Pyle from the Andy Griffith show", similar but different (even a fool is entitled to think he is the king of his own castle). However I saw it I was piling on a ton of backstory and I was thinking "this is too much!"

In any given story, you got your appetizers, then your meal then maybe dessert. I felt I was packing in too much appetizer and not enough meal, so, yeah some things were trimmed off. Maybe too much. IDK

However, I said I was unaware of it and I'll look into it.

Thanks for the additional reference.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

yeah, sorry, but jimmy's a nobber.

 

[LWulf]

yeah, sorry, but jimmy's a nobber.

Dude.

Very rarely does "Sorry, but..." mean that you are truly sorry, in this instance, it reads as you aren't sorry at all. Which reads as "I don't respect you, and will do as I like." Which then means you don't have any self-respect.

I am not telling you how to think, just not to act that way in my thread. Take it outside!

You think he is wrong, then say "he is wrong". I have absolutely no problem with that, but then explain why.

I don't care if he is right or wrong. HE is trying at least, YOU are just trying my patience.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

cba.

.

 

[PennLady]

Well, This is supposed to be a "small town, back woods" kind of place. I made references stating that as much as I could without being too verbose. The main character is an auto mechanic. Something that was in the first draft, but I subsequently removed for "tempo" reasons. Maybe that was wrong. Whatever.

I got that, when you mentioned that "everyone knew everyone" at least in a general way. However, I think you're shying away a bit too much from "backstory." Saying a guy is a mechanic doesn't alter the tempo; saying a guy is a mechanic and then launching into an account of how he became one or what cars he's working on would (unless any of that is crucial to your plot).

He see's himself basically as a second class citizen. Now that I think of it, think of the main character as "Gomer Pyle from the Andy Griffith show", similar but different (even a fool is entitled to think he is the king of his own castle). However I saw it I was piling on a ton of backstory and I was thinking "this is too much!"

Why second class? Nothing wrong with being a mechanic, and a "small town, back woods" place probably isn't teeming with white collar lawyers or bankers. Seems like a mechanic would be a good, solid job and get him some respect from others. He has to fix their cars, after all.

In any given story, you got your appetizers, then your meal then maybe dessert. I felt I was packing in too much appetizer and not enough meal, so, yeah some things were trimmed off. Maybe too much. IDK

It's true you don't want too many appetizers; they'll spoil you for dinner. But a couple light ones don't usually hurt. And you may have gone past the appetizers to trimming the meal too much.

I am not telling you how to think, just not to act that way in my thread. Take it outside!

Once you post, you lose control of it. Or cede control. Whichever. It's been that way since the days of dial up BBSs and before.

 

[LWulf]

I got that, when you mentioned that "everyone knew everyone" at least in a general way. However, I think you're shying away a bit too much from "backstory." Saying a guy is a mechanic doesn't alter the tempo; saying a guy is a mechanic and then launching into an account of how he became one or what cars he's working on would (unless any of that is crucial to your plot).

Why second class? Nothing wrong with being a mechanic, and a "small town, back woods" place probably isn't teeming with white collar lawyers or bankers. Seems like a mechanic would be a good, solid job and get him some respect from others. He has to fix their cars, after all.

Okay, original draft, back story, Jamie didn't go into the woods for a snog with her bf and find the place, she followed Bill.

She followed Bill because she saw him every day when she went to school with her girlfriends. (small town, right?) He knew who she was too. She liked him, and he liked her, but he dismissed her as being simply a schoolgirl with a crush.

However, as I stated, one of the things primary for some people into erotic spanking is having a "reason" and I didn't have a reason or at least not enough of a good one.

Jamie being stalker-ish didn't seem a valid enough reason, being caught lying and peeping, WOULD be.

However, in both scenarios Bill is still a goober. I mean, he had to wait for Jamie to make a move? Please. He has confidence issues!

***********************​

The problem with the "Bill was a mechanic" back story was; I had too much of it. I had where she walked to school and would flirt with him etc etc yah yah yah yah. I had almost 3 pages of back story before they got to the woods a first time and I didn't want her spanked until the second time they were both there.

I didn't want it to be "oh hey babe, you're 18 now? great, let me spank you" It was too fast. I wanted him to simmer and stew. There HAD to be a second day.
I wanted it to be where Jamie KNEW or in someway, understood what was going on before she got there. I don't like it to be a pressured decision but an intelligent choice. She CHOSE to be there. In the original scenario, I couldn't write it where she did anything but run away in terror after seeing what he was into.
She was supposed to not have ever thought of spanking as an interest before, but BECAUSE it was Bill, she wanted to give it a try. But then, that story line just dried up on me because, again, I couldn't write it any other way than she ran away in terror.

The second reason I didn't really like that back-story was; it just seemed too pedophile to me. Maybe that's wrong but I just didn't like it.


maybe I need to take the whole story back again and start over... IDK