Creating the Right Character

[NOIRTRASH]

The character I want for my wares doesn't exist. The right detective character is a mix of Kojak, Rockford, Philip Marlowe, and George Smiley. Most noir writers try to create such a perfect character and fail. All fail.

Rockford is humble, Marlowe is chivalrous, Kojak is indestructible, and Smiley is patiently lethal. I have no clue how to do it but wanna try.

 

[SimonDoom]

Don't worry about making a perfect character. A good character isn't perfect. Give him/her some trait that you find interesting and that you can make a motivating, plot-driving feature of your stories. That's all you need in a good crime fiction hero.

Take Jack Reacher, for instance. He's big, unstoppable, and indestructible. And that's about it. He doesn't change, he doesn't experience personal growth, he doesn't doubt himself. He's a cartoon of a person, but somehow he's compelling enough to sustain a long line of successful novels.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Don't worry about making a perfect character. A good character isn't perfect. Give him/her some trait that you find interesting and that you can make a motivating, plot-driving feature of your stories. That's all you need in a good crime fiction hero.

Take Jack Reacher, for instance. He's big, unstoppable, and indestructible. And that's about it. He doesn't change, he doesn't experience personal growth, he doesn't doubt himself. He's a cartoon of a person, but somehow he's compelling enough to sustain a long line of successful novels.

I know Jack Reacher and all the others. Perfection is what I want. I also believe perfection includes serious flaws.

 

[49greg]

Would you call this paragon "KoRoMarS"?

Just kidding, you've got a hard guy to write.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Depends on your audience. In the OP's case, he's probably the only audience he wants to please, in which case I can't advise.

But I can kind of see what I'd like in a Noir-style detective.

1. An ethos. He'll sometimes break the law, he'll happily break noses, but somewhere deep down he's motivated by an almost Don Quixote-like desire to make the world a better place, even when it requires paying some cost. Maybe he saw too much bad crap in the war; maybe he lost a daughter via some unfair twist of fate. For whatever reason, he's in a private war with reality and he can't leave it alone. It may make him bitter, or ironic, or just plain mean, but it also makes him grimly determined and even-handed.

2. A thing for the ladies, but not stupid about it. I don't know why, but I have a soft spot for the cliched kind of "a dame walked in, with legs going on and on forever and all of it on display. The clothing said rich. The eyes said desperate. The mouth said bite, here, until it hurts, and then I'll be good. But my instinct said whatever the problem was, it was her fault and she was going to pay me to make it go away. I already knew I didn't like her, but I needed income and she was the only game on the horizon."

Basically a detective needs a fatal flaw, and I don't like alcoholism. Girls are a more interesting choice. OP doesn't like chivalry, but for many males a desire to protect the egg-carriers is wired in. It's not a bad characteristic in a character, as long as it's not stupid.

3. Human frailty. When you get punched in the gut by someone who knows what he's doing, you are going to fold over and in that state you'll be hit again. You might or might not be getting up again after that. Bullets do random damage - you can take a bullet and barely notice, or you can be dead, or anything in between. The important thing is not to be punched or shot. If anyone should know this it's a detective and they should act accordingly.

4. A machine-like ability to hurt people when it's absolutely necessary. If someone needs his head shot off, and at least in stories some people do, I want to see a short paragraph on the shot and a lack of remorse afterwards. He doesn't need a drink afterwards or have bad dreams. He does what he must and moves on. When he turns to ice, it's all ice.

5. Sex. In the real world, women desperate enough to ask strangers for help sometimes get generous with their appreciation when they are trying to get the help, and some are appreciative afterwards. If he's so pure he doesn't take what's offered, I don't feel the realism. (If you want to skip this angle, he needs something to keep him in line, either a fear of the wrath of God or a wife at home he takes seriously.)

 

[sr71plt]

My detectives are addicted to the vice they are detecting against. I think that's different.

 

[NicoleZ]

The character I want for my wares doesn't exist. The right detective character is a mix of Kojak, Rockford, Philip Marlowe, and George Smiley. Most noir writers try to create such a perfect character and fail. All fail.

Rockford is humble, Marlowe is chivalrous, Kojak is indestructible, and Smiley is patiently lethal. I have no clue how to do it but wanna try.

I'm sorry, but across the Pond he does and in several guises. DCI Barnaby, DCI Alan Banks, DS Jack Frost as well as James Bond and many more. Each of them come with slight differences in background, personality and personal life but unfortunately they are all very British if not downright English. If you'd allow women the list becomes even longer, but it seems you did not even consider the possibility.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I'm sorry, but across the Pond he does and in several guises. DCI Barnaby, DCI Alan Banks, DS Jack Frost as well as James Bond and many more. Each of them come with slight differences in background, personality and personal life but unfortunately they are all very British if not downright English. If you'd allow women the list becomes even longer, but it seems you did not even consider the possibility.

Nope. My tale includes a femme fatale, an heiress with the heart of a Nazi god. My male character is the iron fist in her velvet glove. Her husband is milquetoast politician she wouldn't dream of sleeping with.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Depends on your audience. In the OP's case, he's probably the only audience he wants to please, in which case I can't advise.

But I can kind of see what I'd like in a Noir-style detective.

1. An ethos. He'll sometimes break the law, he'll happily break noses, but somewhere deep down he's motivated by an almost Don Quixote-like desire to make the world a better place, even when it requires paying some cost. Maybe he saw too much bad crap in the war; maybe he lost a daughter via some unfair twist of fate. For whatever reason, he's in a private war with reality and he can't leave it alone. It may make him bitter, or ironic, or just plain mean, but it also makes him grimly determined and even-handed.

2. A thing for the ladies, but not stupid about it. I don't know why, but I have a soft spot for the cliched kind of "a dame walked in, with legs going on and on forever and all of it on display. The clothing said rich. The eyes said desperate. The mouth said bite, here, until it hurts, and then I'll be good. But my instinct said whatever the problem was, it was her fault and she was going to pay me to make it go away. I already knew I didn't like her, but I needed income and she was the only game on the horizon."

Basically a detective needs a fatal flaw, and I don't like alcoholism. Girls are a more interesting choice. OP doesn't like chivalry, but for many males a desire to protect the egg-carriers is wired in. It's not a bad characteristic in a character, as long as it's not stupid.

3. Human frailty. When you get punched in the gut by someone who knows what he's doing, you are going to fold over and in that state you'll be hit again. You might or might not be getting up again after that. Bullets do random damage - you can take a bullet and barely notice, or you can be dead, or anything in between. The important thing is not to be punched or shot. If anyone should know this it's a detective and they should act accordingly.

4. A machine-like ability to hurt people when it's absolutely necessary. If someone needs his head shot off, and at least in stories some people do, I want to see a short paragraph on the shot and a lack of remorse afterwards. He doesn't need a drink afterwards or have bad dreams. He does what he must and moves on. When he turns to ice, it's all ice.

5. Sex. In the real world, women desperate enough to ask strangers for help sometimes get generous with their appreciation when they are trying to get the help, and some are appreciative afterwards. If he's so pure he doesn't take what's offered, I don't feel the realism. (If you want to skip this angle, he needs something to keep him in line, either a fear of the wrath of God or a wife at home he takes seriously.)

Your suggestions hit the target, and the Devil is in the details. So I need to contemplate the points you make.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

For what it's worth, I have a detective (FBI) in my new series, Industry In Crisis. I don't think the story is the OPs cup of tea - it has a supernatural element and a sci-fi element - but the detective, Mark, has been sent in to investigate a kind of sex-trafficing that the law doesn't quite cover. I'm considering having him succumb to the temptations of pussy and power. From the OP's point of view the most useful part might be his interaction with his superiors. The 2nd chapter is due up tomorrow and has more of that interaction.

He doesn't correspond to my points above - he doesn't have the internal fire - and that's why he might be weak enough to succumb.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

For what it's worth, I have a detective (FBI) in my new series, Industry In Crisis. I don't think the story is the OPs cup of tea - it has a supernatural element and a sci-fi element - but the detective, Mark, has been sent in to investigate a kind of sex-trafficing that the law doesn't quite cover. I'm considering having him succumb to the temptations of pussy and power. From the OP's point of view the most useful part might be his interaction with his superiors. The 2nd chapter is due up tomorrow and has more of that interaction.

He doesn't correspond to my points above - he doesn't have the internal fire - and that's why he might be weak enough to succumb.

Recall Clint Eastwood characters catch bullets and beatings all the time.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Gee this is a good thread. Lots of great comments/ideas.

I'm particularly impressed by our bete noir himself (well, the OTHER one!) - pilot - and his idea of making the detective addicted to the things he's detecting against; this is interesting.

Violence is about an expression of testosterone effects. And testosterone is a good thing. Difficult to control, but positive and beneficial, especially when usefully controlled.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Gee this is a good thread. Lots of great comments/ideas.

I'm particularly impressed by our bete noir himself (well, the OTHER one!) - pilot - and his idea of making the detective addicted to the things he's detecting against; this is interesting.

Violence is about an expression of testosterone effects. And testosterone is a good thing. Difficult to control, but positive and beneficial, especially when usefully controlled.

Research says females dominate every category of violence buy one....injuries from ass whuppins by males. I saw it at the hospital; it was always the gals who started trouble, escalated to violence, and ended up in restraints.

 

[rjordan]

The character I want for my wares doesn't exist. The right detective character is a mix of Kojak, Rockford, Philip Marlowe, and George Smiley. Most noir writers try to create such a perfect character and fail. All fail.

Rockford is humble, Marlowe is chivalrous, Kojak is indestructible, and Smiley is patiently lethal. I have no clue how to do it but wanna try.

Sounds like a job for Superman! He's all those things.

rj

 

[NicoleZ]

I'm particularly impressed by our bete noir himself (well, the OTHER one!) - pilot - and his idea of making the detective addicted to the things he's detecting against; this is interesting.

Since it's already been done in both literature and movies, it's hardly his idea. In fact the saying nothing new under the sun is so old that we've had time for the Dark Ages and re-inventing the wheel a couple of times in between.

 

[NicoleZ]

I've been reading this again and again. Could it be that I've misunderstood it?

The character I want for my wares doesn't exist. The right detective character is a mix of Kojak, Rockford, Philip Marlowe, and George Smiley. Most noir writers try to create such a perfect character and fail. All fail.

Rockford is humble, Marlowe is chivalrous, Kojak is indestructible, and Smiley is patiently lethal. I have no clue how to do it but wanna try.

Could it be that what Noir is after makes the enumeration the failings of these characters and not virtues he desires in his characters? That who you're looking for Noir is a Shaft or Judge Dredd without a moral conscience?

 

[sr71plt]

Since it's already been done in both literature and movies, it's hardly his idea. In fact the saying nothing new under the sun is so old that we've had time for the Dark Ages and re-inventing the wheel a couple of times in between.

First, I didn't claim it hadn't been done. Second, perhaps you can point out where it's been done on Literotica before--there's a good chance it's hasn't been used much at Literotica before. You certainly have a lot of hate in you, don't you?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I've been reading this again and again. Could it be that I've misunderstood it?



Could it be that what Noir is after makes the enumeration the failings of these characters and not virtues he desires in his characters? That who you're looking for Noir is a Shaft or Judge Dredd without a moral conscience?

I think who I want is Pierre Bezukov of War and Peace. He knowsw marriage to Helene will be a disaster, but she has the only thing he doesn't have, great tits. Or Napoleon....he married Josephine knowing she slept with everyone, but she was popular with all the right people...he wanted right people connections. He thought women were means to ends.

 

[TxRad]

Jimbo, I've found you the perfect character. There is a fairly new movie out called "The Accountant." The main character is exactly what you are looking for. Not to mention he'll have your inner psychotherapist peeing for joy.

 

[NicoleZ]

First, I didn't claim it hadn't been done.

Nor did I. It was Desiremakesmeweak who attributed the idea to you.

Second, perhaps you can point out where it's been done on Literotica before--there's a good chance it's hasn't been used much at Literotica before.

Whatever for and why should I be the one to do that? Is it that you are you too lazy to look it up for yourself? Well have I got news for you: You ain't my boss and I certainly ain't your secretary.

You certainly have a lot of hate in you, don't you?

You certainly don't miss out on any chance to stir it up and construe offense out of mere observations. Did we only get coal in our stocking this year? Awww!!! Ya poor mutt!

 

[sr71plt]

Happy New Year to you, Nicole. God knows your 2016 must have been miserable--and so full of conspiracy theories and hatred.

 

[NicoleZ]

Happy New Year to you, Nicole. God knows your 2016 must have been miserable--and so full of conspiracy theories and hatred.

Thank you for your concern. Well, every year since 2013 when I was diagnosed with cancer that had already metastasised has been a miserable year with major surgeries, chemo and radiotherapies.

What is your excuse?

 

[sr71plt]

What is your excuse?

I'm not planning on making up any health or college degree "excuses" to try for sympathy or put down. Other than the presidential election result, I've been happy as a clam this year. If that fries your gills, I'll just take that as an added benefit.

 

[NicoleZ]

I'm not planning on making up any health or college degree "excuses" to try for sympathy or put down. Other than the presidential election result, I've been happy as a clam this year. If that fries your gills, I'll just take that as an added benefit.

I really have made an impact, have I not, for your hatred to be this boundless. For you, I pray there is a real special: May you be immune to degenerative diseases such as Parkinson's or Alzheimer's and may you celebrate your 150th Birthday in perfect physical health with no end in sight.

PS. Noir, I think we may have uncloaked your perfect, amoral character. Or rather, he has revealed himself.

 

[Hypoxia]

The players in our stories are our inventions, sculpted from raw material of people we think or fantasize that we know. We can make them whatever we want and can achieve. Choose your fave flaws. Make your detective alcoholic, sexaholic, dyslexic, sociopathic, compulsive, bipolar, demonic / saintly, idiot-savant, albino, whatever. Perfect characters should be killed.