Crazy Friends

[sweetnpetite]

My friends here at Literotica always seem to have something helpful, no matter what the problem, so I turn to you with this question.

Does anybody know of any books or websites for people that tell you how to be friends with people who have mental health issues? I've known people with bipolar disorder, paranoiya, panic disorders, depression, abuse history ect...

Especially people who are paranoid, how do you deal w/ there behavior w/out sacrificing your own mental health and/or friendship?

to be blunt: how do you be friends with a crazy person?

 

[cloudy]

I don't know of any specific websites, SnP, but usually there are support groups for spouses, etc., that have to deal with a loved ones issues.

Maybe do a Google search for the specific illness +"support", and see what you come up with.

Applause to you for trying to be supportive of your friends.

 

[Guest]

Sweet, this site might be helpful. The link, Books for Families, seems useful. Here's another site.

best, Perdita

 

[impressive]

You might find some helpful resources on this site:

www.bazelon.org

Mental health is *supposed* to be a prime focus of the shrub's "New Freedom Initiative" (although so far all I've seen is a lot of time, energy, and money spent on developing strategic plans).

There is also an anti-stigma campaign being spearheaded, I believe, by NAMI. (As you'd expect, the URL is www.nami.org )

Very complex issue, and I commend you for seeking more information. So many would opt instead to just distance themselves from the person most in need of understanding.

HTH,

 

[sweetnpetite]

Thanks guys, I knew I could count on you!

I think, one of the hardest parts for me is the 'approach-avoidance' of "I love you/I hate you" you don't want to be a punching bag, but you also know that they can't really help it.

Dita, you'd I know you'd have an answer? >>hugs<<

 

[Guest]

I'm just curious here...

Why would it be different than being friends with anyone else?

Let's face it everyone here is crazy to an extent. Not many people here I wouldn't call my friend. So why do I need special skills to like someone?

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm just curious here...

Why would it be different than being friends with anyone else?

Let's face it everyone here is crazy to an extent. Not many people here I wouldn't call my friend. So why do I need special skills to like someone?

It's different, trust me.

Like when your friends are out of touch with reality, do you argue with them, which is pointless? or do you support their delusions which is not healthy?

What about when they act like they don't need or want your friendship, but you know they really do? Or they seem to be fairweather friends or something because they can't decide if they love you or hate you, but they really can't help it?

Like say if you had a freind who was manic depressive. YOu would either put up with some crap that you'd never put up from anyone else or you'd stop being her friend. But when are you being understanding and when are you makeing excuses for someone else? When are you letting them overstep the boundaries that you need to have for yourself?

And how do you know what to say or what not to say that might set them off or make them worse or make them believe that you are one of the 'bad guys'

Should you walk on egg shells or let the chips fall where they may?

I grew up w/ a nurotic and a Post Tramatic StressDisorder in my home, and I still don't know.

I can't really exlplain it, but it's not the same as normal crazyness.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Here's an example.

Your shopping with a friend. Everything is lovely and nice, and you just got to the sale rack and found some great deals. YOu have several outfits on your arm.

Suddenly, your friend says "We have to leave. Now."

First you laugh. But she is serious. Now you are irritate becauase you were having fun. Your friend starts to sweat and freak out, now you are worried. You ask whats wrong, your friend won't tell you. You think she's having a heart attack or something. She says she needs air, so you drop everything and go outside with her. She looks physically better, but she grabs your hand and drags you to the car and she drives home without explanation.

Your friend (select one):

1. Is overreactiong

2. Ruined your shopping trip for no reason

3. Has a serious panic and anxiety disorder.

4. Is manipulative and has a wierd sense of humour

How you react is certainly going to depend on what you know about this situation, but even with knowlege, how many times are you going to go threw this before you stop being understanding? And when you and your friend no longer go out in public any more, how often will you want to give up your plans to go hang out in her dark apartment with the curtains drawn?

Maybe you just cut your losses and find some more low maintanance friends. but now suppose that this is your sister or your mother or your daughter or you.

 

[Guest]

Why would it be different than being friends with anyone else?

Their life could depend on you. "Crazy" is a eupehmism, mental illness is real.

Perdita

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Speaking as someone who works in clinical psychology, there is a huge difference between someone with a disorder and someone without. It is a greater failing of preference that people buy into the need or desire to label themselves "crazy" or "having a disorder" when, strictly speaking, very few people actually do.

I don't think I'd label anyone here as having a disorder (as unlikely as it is), having dealt with people that actually do.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Speaking as someone who works in clinical psychology, there is a huge difference between someone with a disorder and someone without. It is a greater failing of preference that people buy into the need or desire to label themselves "crazy" or "having a disorder" when, strictly speaking, very few people actually do.

I don't think I'd label anyone here as having a disorder (as unlikely as it is), having dealt with people that actually do.

I had a friend in HS who was diagnosed schizophenic. I had no idea what that actually meant, he was just sort of odd. I know quite a few people with clinically diagnosed nerosis or worse. I have a friend who is diagnosed w/ paranoya, and depression. I had a friend who was bi-polar. I have a friend who's dad is paraniod and thinks his neighbors are breaking into his *mind.* Maybe some people just attract 'crazy' people (I actually like people who are a little, or a lot different so maybe that has something to do with it) I don't know. Mental illness may be rare, but not in my life. I do believe that most people will probably encounter at least a few people who either are in or need treatment. Weather they choose to keep them in their lives is another matter.

I see what you are saying, personally I am surounded by enough disorder, I don't know if I'd know 'normal' if it bit me. People who seem to 'normal' actually kind of freak me out. Maybe that's why I know so many 'crazy' people. (and for anyone who is offended by the euphamism, I appologize)

 

[Guest]

It's different, trust me.

Like when your friends are out of touch with reality, do you argue with them, which is pointless? or do you support their delusions which is not healthy?

What about when they act like they don't need or want your friendship, but you know they really do? Or they seem to be fairweather friends or something because they can't decide if they love you or hate you, but they really can't help it?

Like say if you had a freind who was manic depressive. YOu would either put up with some crap that you'd never put up from anyone else or you'd stop being her friend. But when are you being understanding and when are you makeing excuses for someone else? When are you letting them overstep the boundaries that you need to have for yourself?

And how do you know what to say or what not to say that might set them off or make them worse or make them believe that you are one of the 'bad guys'

Should you walk on egg shells or let the chips fall where they may?

I grew up w/ a nurotic and a Post Tramatic StressDisorder in my home, and I still don't know.

I can't really exlplain it, but it's not the same as normal crazyness.

First of all friends never argue. Freinds talk and discuss. If your friend is dillusional don't go along with them, but don't tell them it's not real. You can drive them farther into their dillusion either way. Instead ask them questions about it. get them to talk to you about it and ask pointed questions aimed at helping them figure out for themselves that what they are telling you is not real.

When they act like they don't want you around, go. Be polite, but go. when they are ready they'll come to you.

From there it goes back to the number one rule of friendship: "Be there when they need you. Be available when they don't."

Again not any different that I would treat a "normal" friend.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Also, mentally ill people may do things that are increadably self destructive, from agresive behavior to shopping binges to suicide. It's hard to be around when your fiend wants to do things that you know are harmful, its nearly impossible to stop them, you don't want to encourage them yet you are afraid what might happen if you leave them.

If you don't have a strong personality yourself, or happen to be a people pleaser, you can go along with some pretty bad ideas just so as not to upset a person who already seems (and is) unstable.

Mental illness manifests diferently in different people and w/ different illenesses, but it brings to the table a whole new set of dificulties.

I hope that sort of answers the question of why it is different than being friends w/ anybody else.

 

[sweetnpetite]

First of all friends never argue. Freinds talk and discuss. If your friend is dillusional don't go along with them, but don't tell them it's not real. You can drive them farther into their dillusion either way. Instead ask them questions about it. get them to talk to you about it and ask pointed questions aimed at helping them figure out for themselves that what they are telling you is not real.

When they act like they don't want you around, go. Be polite, but go. when they are ready they'll come to you.

From there it goes back to the number one rule of friendship: "Be there when they need you. Be available when they don't."

Again not any different that I would treat a "normal" friend.

"People with Paranoid Personality Disorder interpret the actions of others as deliberately threatening or demeaning and believe others will harm, exploit or deceive them, even if no objective evidence exists to support that belief.

They also suspect they may be attacked suddenly by others at any time and without reason. People with this disorder may be jealous, guarded or secretive and may appear to be withdrawn or excessively serious."

People who are mentally ill will draw you into there dillusions, sometimes before you know it. Or other times they just make no sense at all and are very diffictult to identify with.

When your mentally ill friend is feeling attacked //without cause to feel that way// or threatened, he/she will *not* talk and discuss. That is the problem. YOur friend will do odd things that don't make any sense. Very odd things. And you may never know why. And they may be hurtful to you. Because there reality is very very different from yours.

Pointed questions don't work, because *logic* does not work. You will drive yourself crazy trying to get them to see for themselves why their thoughts are irrational and impossible. If you ask them any sort of questions at all, they might become suspicious of you.

Would you be friends with someone who told you every two or three days that they didn't like you and they don't want to speak with you ever again? IF so, would you be able to keep it from getting to you?

 

[Guest]

Would you be friends with someone who told you every two or three days that they didn't like you and they don't want to speak with you ever again? IF so, would you be able to keep it from getting to you?

If I knew they had that condition, then as I said, I would be polite but go. Staying will only aggrevate the situation. If in a few days they decide to talk to me again then I would be there for them. But when they say go, don't argue.

Just say, "It was nice talking to you again, I'll be here if you need me." and go.

 

[Guest]

Just say, "It was nice talking to you again, I'll be here if you need me." and go.

When I was most severely suicidal you would have been the last 'friend' I'd want. Dran, I believe you are merely being stubborn and do not know what you are talking about. You offend me.

Perdita

 

[ferociouskittycat]

Here's an example.



Your friend (select one):

1. Is overreactiong

2. Ruined your shopping trip for no reason

3. Has a serious panic and anxiety disorder.

4. Is manipulative and has a wierd sense of humour

None of the above.

She might be claustrophobic. Some stores have the air-conditioning set too high, and heat can sometimes trigger the same effect as being trapped.

I had this when I was pregnant. I couldn't stand to be in a store where I felt hot. I couldn't breathe. This may be her case.

As for the keeping the curtains closed, that may just be her way of keeping the outside world outside. No idea on that one

 

[Guest]

When I was most severely suicidal you would have been the last 'friend' I'd want. Dran, I believe you are merely being stubborn and do not know what you are talking about. You offend me.

Perdita

Well it was nice talking to you too. Have a nice life but I'll still be here.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by ferociouskittycat
None of the above.

She might be claustrophobic. Some stores have the air-conditioning set too high, and heat can sometimes trigger the same effect as being trapped

Phobias like that /are/ anxiety disorders.

 

[SummerMorning]

Eh... think donuts.

Donuts I tell you.

Really not making any sense after several beers, a few glasses of wine, a few shots of vodka and some other fruity flavoured alcoholic beverages...

but it's the donuts.

Or doughnuts.

Or maybe dowager nuttes?

Is that where it came from?

But seriously... like the others say. *hic*

 

[sweetnpetite]

When I was most severely suicidal you would have been the last 'friend' I'd want. Dran, I believe you are merely being stubborn and do not know what you are talking about. You offend me.

Perdita

I just think that Dran has never had the experience and just does not understand.

Everything seems simple when it's down in words, when it's all linear, explainable and managable. When it's happening, it's not always like that.

Perhaps Dranoel has such a strong personality and ego strength that he(?) would always know and do the right thing and never be effected emotionally or phycologically by anothers neediness or rejection and could remain uneffected as the huracain rushes over-head. I am certainly not like that.

Like many things in life, you have to be there to understand.

 

[Guest]

S&P: your post above explains well why you are so sweet. Not me. Glad to know you, though. P.

 

[sweetnpetite]

double post.

 

[sweetnpetite]

S&P: your post above explains well why you are so sweet. Not me. Glad to know you, though. P.

I quite respect what you said as well. It was very straigtfoward and blunt. I admire that about you.

I just found this article: WHEN HELPING HURTS

haven't read it all the way through, but seems to be on topic, so here i go posting it:

WHEN HELPING HURTS: BEEN THERE, DONE THAT
by LuAnn Pierce, MSW, CMSW
So you love an addict, huh? Welcome to the crowd . . . so do millions of other people. The specific addiction doesn't matter. It may be alcohol, food, work, exercise, religion, cigarettes, heroin or a host of other quick fixes -- the effects are just as destructive to the addict and those who love him/her. While we can't control another person's addiction or behavior, we can control our reactions to their behavior and our own part in keeping the cycle of addiction alive.

If you are one of us, the toughest thing you will come to realize about yourself may be that many of your strengths of character can be devastating when used in excess or for the wrong reasons. Indeed I was shocked and appalled to find out that my best traits -- those that made me a good,caring and compassionate person -- could also be my greatest weaknesses.

For example, my ability to accept others regardless of their behavior is an admirable trait. The exception to this is when I allow other people to take advantage of me or continue to do things that are hurtful to me and/or them without any consequences. At that point, my acceptance of inappropriate behavior allows them to continue to act in a way that is damaging our relationship, keeps me in emotional pain and is probably fueling their guilt, which can lead to continued or increased use of their addictive behavior.

How do we get this way? As I was growing up I had a lot of practice for my future job of social worker and therapist. My dad (who is now deceased) was an alcoholic, as is my only brother. My mom is a classic codependent and enabler. She is a kind and loving person who always tries to do what she thinks is best for everyone. Those are hardly character flaws when applied to some situations and people, but in an alcoholic family it can be a problem. Since my dad was a "country club" drinker we always thought it was socially acceptable and not a problem. We hardly ever saw him drunk, but that was because he wouldn't come home until we were in bed. My mom waited up for him to make sure he got home safely for over eighteen years. When my brother and I started using alcohol and drugs as young teens we were pretty good at hiding it, so she didn't have to worry about us. We hardly ever got into trouble for our misbehavior -- if we did our parents got us out of it. My sisters and I managed to escape years of recreational drug use without becoming addicted, but we all have problems with money and food and seem to attract emotionally unavailable men.

The main problem with our home and family was the lack of rules, structure and discipline. My dad was an only child, so he always had the best of everything and did anything he wanted. My mom had it very hard growing up because her dad died when she was only eight years old. It probably won't surprise you to know that he was an alcoholic, as is her only brother. She and her sisters had to work and contribute to the household income from the time they were old enough to earn money by babysitting. She was determined that her kids would not grow up like that, and we didn't.

We had the best of everything and could have anything we wanted if we asked, unless it required that Dad spend time with us. The maid handled things at home, which meant no responsibilities for us or our parents. Sounds nice, huh? NOT! I thought that at the time, but when the divorce finally came and the money supply ended and the maid was no more, I realized just how bad it was. I was eighteen years old with no sense of responsibility, no skills and no clue...and I was mad! I got over it several years later, but many of my struggles to date are a result of the difficulty I have moderating mybehavior. Old habits die hard.

All of us have problems managing money, living within our means and setting limits for ourselves without becoming too rigid, which can lead to a cycle of deprivation that spirals into a splurge with money, food or something else and the cycle continues.

As a teenager and young adult, I managed to put myself in the caretaker role for my brother and all of our delinquent friends. I made sure everyone got home safely by chauffeuring them around, advised everyone on their family and interpersonal problems, brought home all the kids that ran away and helped them talk their way out of trouble when they got caught drinking or drugging. Although I was borderline delinquent myself, I was more responsible than the people I chose to run around with. It seemed that I got a lot of attention and positive reinforcement for being the one person people could trust to "be there for them." Even as an adult and a newbie in the helping profession many years ago, I found myself rescuing people who were screwing up their lives. That is when I learned that helping people can cause them more harm than good, and that I needed to learn how to get my emotional needs met without making others dependent on me.

If I had not gotten help with my own co-dependence, I would probably still be doing that. It was not until I joined Al-Anon and started working the Twelve Steps that I realized how damaging it was to others to have me as a crutch. Likewise, it is damaging to me to focus my energy on others, instead of myself. It was through lots of soul-searching and hard work that I came to realize how destructive my behavior actually was. I am still very aware of my tendency to help too much -- it keeps me on my toes. I must warn you, however, that people who are used to "the old you" may not like it very much when you set limits. When I first began trying to set limits I was not very good at it. Actually, I was mean. The more I practiced saying no and taking care of myself, the better I became at setting limits. I have come to understand that is usually the case with any new skills we learn, whether they are interpersonal skills or technical skills.

There seems to be little middle ground for those who grow up in an alcoholic or otherwise "dysfunctional" home. Boundaries are either nonexistent or inflexible. Everything has to be in black or white, or total chaos. This column is the place where we are going to learn more about the consequences of our behavior, how to change those behaviors that are hurting instead of helping and how to break the cycle so we don't create another generation of addicts and co-dependents. Recognizing that we are a part of the problem is the first step toward resolving it.

So what about you? What are you doing to "help" those you love? Giving them all the things you never had? Providing them with everything money can buy (which does not include your time and attention)? Protecting them from the consequences of their actions? Keeping them dependent on you for emotional and/or other support? Accepting unacceptable behavior? Making threats or promises on which you don't follow through? Saving them from themselves? Ignoring harmful behavior? This is the time to be honest and open about your feelings, fears and dreams. We can listen, support and encourage each other without judgment by sharing our experience, strength and hope . . . but giving no advice. Each of us has something to offer, but we can't tell others how to handle their situations or problems. Those decisions have to be made based on each individual's personal circumstances.

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/relation/whhurts.html

 

[sweetnpetite]

from the article I posted: here is a perfect example that describes me perfectly:


For example, my ability to accept others regardless of their behavior is an admirable trait. The exception to this is when I allow other people to take advantage of me or continue to do things that are hurtful to me and/or them without any consequences. At that point, my acceptance of inappropriate behavior allows them to continue to act in a way that is damaging our relationship, keeps me in emotional pain and is probably fueling their guilt, which can lead to continued or increased use of their addictive behavior.